All new RTR PGA wagon in 2mm scale

[branchie]

Gutted but understandable Cav. I was looking forward to a rake of BBAs as well 

[justin1985]

That's a real shame!

 

Especially considering that pre-orders were kept open for quite a long time, it gives the impression that it was quite a way under?

 

But, I can't help but think that a more consistent publicity programme and ordering process, as RevolutioN seem to do very well, would have yielded quite a lot more orders. I think I expressed an interest very early on, and it seemed like a bit of a cobbled together process: email us and we'll email you back at the next stage etc. I think that would have put a number of people off engaging. 

 

Perhaps a project reboot in a year or two, with a more professional ordering system, might have better luck?

[JR_P]

Aside from the fact that they inadvertently shared everyone’s email addresses, it did at least underscore the principal issue; there were only circa 40 people on that list.... and that is simply far to few people to reach a MOQ - even if we’d all ordered 20, that still was probably not going to be enough.

 

i agree though, give it a year or two (and a high profile model delivered, ie. the 91) and then try again - the ordering process will be better defined and they’ll be a more recognisable brand.

 

I think the approach of RevolutioN with a substantial iconic passenger train (the pendo) paid dividends for them down the line. If Cavalex can successfully and competently deliver a 91 + mk4 rake [in N gauge], they should be able to achieve a similar status and with it will garner trust from a wider modelling public which I would hope would translate into additional sales volume.

 

Just put this one on the back burner for now.

Edited September 2, 2019 by JR_P
Minor clarification

[justin1985]

Really pleased to see an email from Rails of Sheffield just now announcing that they are releasing this model in N as an exclusive project!

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/collections/n-gauge-pga-hopper-wagons?mc_cid=59622a205a&mc_eid=e588d775c4

 

Rails really seem to be making a niche for themselves acting as distributors for the smaller designers working in N (e.g. Sonic Models), which must be helping to bring these things to market when they might not have done so otherwise. The downside of course is no potential for discounts against RRP ... and at £89.95 for a three pack, that is a considerable whack ... (but let's not get into criticising prices - £30 per wagon is pretty much on a par with Farish RRPs these days, and frankly it clearly hadn't been viable to produce it at all without Rails stepping in to finance the run). 

 

Practical question - how long did the dark green stripe version of the Redland livery last? I can't find many photos of this type at all on Flickr, and only one with the stripe, which is dated 1981. Perhaps most appeared with the plainer version of the Redland livery? (which is the only one I recall ever seeing, before LaFarge) 

 

J

[RBE]

 

We are pleased to announce that Cavalex Models are producing the PGA hopper wagon in N Gauge exclusively for Rails of Sheffield.

Sold in sets of three and available to order in variety of liveries. Each wagon in each pack will feature a unique running number.

Pre-order now

https://railsofsheffield.com/collections/n-gauge-pga-hopper-wagons

Specification Includes:

•Accurately dimensioned prototypical design

•Etched walkway, handrails and ladders

•Highly detailed underframe

•Close coupling mechanism

Liveries Available:

•Original Redland

•Redland

•Redland Large Logo

•Lafarge Aggregates

•Plain white with patch

•Plain white

Edited August 25, 2021 by RBE

[RBE]

15 minutes ago, justin1985 said:

Really pleased to see an email from Rails of Sheffield just now announcing that they are releasing this model in N as an exclusive project!

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/collections/n-gauge-pga-hopper-wagons?mc_cid=59622a205a&mc_eid=e588d775c4

 

Rails really seem to be making a niche for themselves acting as distributors for the smaller designers working in N (e.g. Sonic Models), which must be helping to bring these things to market when they might not have done so otherwise. The downside of course is no potential for discounts against RRP ... and at £89.95 for a three pack, that is a considerable whack ... (but let's not get into criticising prices - £30 per wagon is pretty much on a par with Farish RRPs these days, and frankly it clearly hadn't been viable to produce it at all without Rails stepping in to finance the run). 

 

Practical question - how long did the dark green stripe version of the Redland livery last? I can't find many photos of this type at all on Flickr, and only one with the stripe, which is dated 1981. Perhaps most appeared with the plainer version of the Redland livery? (which is the only one I recall ever seeing, before LaFarge) 

 

J

 

Hi Justin, we have always been very keen to do all of our models in 2mm scale and this remains our aim. The N gauge modellers were not as welcoming of our products in the beginning as the 4mm modellers were for one reason or another which unfortunately meant that the 2mm PGA project fell short of what we deemed a reasonable interest level at that point to give the project the green light.

 

Now that we are better known as a company, we feel the time is right to try again. On this project we have been fortunate enough to have gotten Rails on board to support our push into N gauge. As we already had the design complete for the N PGA it made sense to use that as our stepping stone into the scale. We are very keen to push out other models that are in our range but of course that will very much depend on the reception of these wagons as to whether or not N gauge will prove popular enough to warrant the progression.

 

As you may know I model N gauge and I am very much finger crossed that these will prove popular and allow us to progress further.

 

Regards

Cav

[BR Blue]

25 minutes ago, justin1985 said:

Practical question - how long did the dark green stripe version of the Redland livery last? I can't find many photos of this type at all on Flickr, and only one with the stripe, which is dated 1981. Perhaps most appeared with the plainer version of the Redland livery? (which is the only one I recall ever seeing, before LaFarge) 

 

J

There are quite a few pictures on Flickr. I just searched for Redland PGA.

The dark stripe was gradually phased out during the 80s but here is a picture from 1989:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/billatkinson2/8480078594/in/photolist-dVmBVC-23BpnEQ-2dKQAXr-2iZbJeK-dceVbN-Gk4L5U-CCYQHV-Z7L77b-2kNaEJe-YY4FoK-DUhjKi-2k8AuyP-29KVHv3-2jyW7gH-9MFtta-2k9oER2-2iZZLDM-YGTu6w-T5fR2C-2erbn1R-SYPMEW-PvooXX-Q5exma-z6CQLy-2kqpyYF-NaxnAo-LRRv92-22Q6cEy-2crHZPt-n2LYXP-ocvaBY-2d3XguF-z5DzXx-kjSqXk-bBBf6d-QERpV2-2h3DQeo-2h3DPCU-hWX8ss-2h3DP8W-QERs8P-UPamrY-YGh6rg-CepaVb-ik2coL-2erM5cR-nhY7gQ-QERqUX-dLY8nJ-pLFWxG

Not my photo so I did not embed it.

[Mike Harvey]

Was the dark stripe a way of concealiing the ugly marks on the hopper side when the wagons were moved through the unloading house by horizontal rubber-tyred wheels? Seem to remember that Wolverton was like that and probably several others.

[Scott B]

54 minutes ago, Mike Harvey said:

Was the dark stripe a way of concealiing the ugly marks on the hopper side when the wagons were moved through the unloading house by horizontal rubber-tyred wheels? Seem to remember that Wolverton was like that and probably several others.

 

Not so sure about that Mike as the wagons were painted with the mid grey stripe from new(ish). There are many images on the web that show the mixed rakes with the all green versions that came later in their lives.

Back in 1980/81 they operated as a uniform rake with grey stripes behind 2x25 or 45s.

 

I was in for a rake or two of these when first proposed and spoke to Alex at some show or other about them.

They are going to cost more through Rails but my support will be there for sure.

 

 

 

[Scott B]

It looks as though the image for the larger logo Redland set may be incorrect ?

 

 

[RBE]

1 hour ago, Scott B said:

It looks as though the image for the larger logo Redland set may be incorrect ?

 

 

Can you please expand on this?

[Mike Harvey]

2 hours ago, Scott B said:

 

Not so sure about that Mike as the wagons were painted with the mid grey stripe from new(ish). There are many images on the web that show the mixed rakes with the all green versions that came later in their lives.

Back in 1980/81 they operated as a uniform rake with grey stripes behind 2x25 or 45s.

 

 

 

I worked in train planning and the initial Mountsorrel train plan was one we developed, including avoiding unbalanced wheel wear on the Radlett route by reversing the train at Cricklewood. The train went round the Radlett circle in the same direction every trip. Later my company was involved in the maintenance of the fleet at Mountsorrel, so these wagons have a bit of a special meaning for me.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Mike Harvey

[BR Blue]

2 hours ago, Scott B said:

It looks as though the image for the larger logo Redland set may be incorrect ?

 

 

Great feedback 

[Scott B]

5 hours ago, RBE said:

Can you please expand on this?

 

On the illustrations for the packs it looks like the Redland logo is the same size as the packs of standard Redland logo. The larger logo does not appear any larger, at least to my eye.

The larger logo, being larger,  finishes further down the bodyside.

For those not overly familiar with the liveries (and there have been questions already) this fact does not appear to be depicted and people may not be familiar with what they are purchasing.

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Scott B

[Scott B]

1 hour ago, BR Blue said:

Great feedback 

 

Now enlarged upon, excuse the pun.

 

[Steadfast]

What excellent news, will have to have a look at which white pack will suit the wagons I want to replicate. They'll look nice mixed in with some RMC hoppers on a Whatley train.

 

Jo

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Steadfast

[shanks522]

Great news, 

 

 I’ve wanted to replicate the train I saw at Tonbridge a few years back. 
 

30 seconds in to the video. 
 

 

Graham 

[TomE]

Fantastic news and great to see them finally come to fruition! 

 

Just need to work out how I justify some!

 

Tom. 

[hmrspaul]

5 hours ago, Scott B said:

 

On the illustrations for the packs it looks like the Redland logo is the same size as the packs of standard Redland logo. The larger logo does not appear any larger, at least to my eye.

The larger logo, being larger,  finishes further down the bodyside.

For those not overly familiar with the liveries (and there have been questions already) this fact does not appear to be depicted and people may not be familiar with what they are purchasing.

 

Where are you looking? The ones without the band come half way down the flat of the side, which appears correct CM PG012 N (R) TP (A)  as https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/redlandpga/e39321089  Whereas the one pack that has the stripe has smaller Redland as CM PG012 N (OR) TP (A)  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/redlandpga/e207b1a5f

 

Paul

[Revolution Mike]

Great news! Really pleased to see these resurrected. 
 

For the thick/lazy amongst us which were the latest versions - I presume the Lafarge then the blanked out and white ones?

 

Cheers Mike

[Scott B]

8 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Where are you looking? The ones without the band come half way down the flat of the side, which appears correct CM PG012 N (R) TP (A)  as https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/redlandpga/e39321089  Whereas the one pack that has the stripe has smaller Redland as CM PG012 N (OR) TP (A)  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/redlandpga/e207b1a5f

 

Paul

 

 

In the image linked previously in this thread (and here again below) the third wagon back is what I take to be the (standard) Redland livery which is available in packs CM PG012 N (R) TP A/B/C/D, the bracketed (R) being for Redland I assume, and either with or without the protection panel.

Product Description

Set of 3 Redland PGA 51T Hopper Wagons

 

The fourth, fifth and 6th wagons back are what I would assume to be the Larger Redland CM PG012 N (LR) TP A (the bracketed (LR) being for Large Redland I assume.

Product Description

Set of 3 Redland Large Logo PGA 51T Hopper Wagons

 

It is clear that this version, which I think first appeared early 1989, maybe  late 1988 ? have a larger Redland logo to me, as you would expect with a Large Logo Redland product description.

I do not believe you have any of these illustrated Paul as your collection predates these from what I have observed.

 

I hope that clears things up and I apologise for the lack of clarity previously, maybe it was not as obvious as I thought, or maybe I have it all wrong  and the Large Redland Logo is not what I thought it to be, ie the fouth, fifth and six wagons as per the illustration.

I was just trying to get things clearer for those with lesser knowledge of the liveries than myself, not that I am an officianado by any stretch of the imagination, but if i am correct, the larger logo is not depicted as such in the train pack illustration as to my eye it appears the same size as the normal Redlands.

 

 

 

[Scott B]

1 hour ago, Revolution Mike said:

Great news! Really pleased to see these resurrected. 
 

For the thick/lazy amongst us which were the latest versions - I presume the Lafarge then the blanked out and white ones?

 

Cheers Mike

 

I would say you are spot on there Mike.

 

When these were first proposed Cav/Alex uploaded a historical train guide in two parts, pre & post privatisation complete with illustrations and dates, pretty much like Revolution used to do.

Maybe that could be made available somewhere  ?

[Steadfast]

1 hour ago, Revolution Mike said:

Great news! Really pleased to see these resurrected. 
 

For the thick/lazy amongst us which were the latest versions - I presume the Lafarge then the blanked out and white ones?

 

Cheers Mike

You presume right sir. I can't remember if DB bought them (like they did the RMCs) or not, but the unbranded and blanked out ones are most recent and ran mixed together.

 

Jo

[Southwich]

3 minutes ago, Scott B said:

 

I would say you are spot on there Mike.

 

When these were first proposed Cav/Alex uploaded a historical train guide in two parts, pre & post privatisation complete with illustrations and dates, pretty much like Revolution used to do.

Maybe that could be made available somewhere  ?

Hi Scott,

 

The PDFs you mention can be found in the website here: https://www.cavalexmodels.com/information

 

Just click the image of the train formation guide and it should open as a PDF in a new tab. Hope that helps! 
 

Kind regards,

 

Will

Edited August 26, 2021 by Southwich

[Scott B]

Thanks Will, that be them :-)

 

Scott