DCC Loco sounds. Good or bad?

[E3109]

Just a bit of a query here, I know that many people enjoy their models with sound features and full respect to those that do.

 

However, my preferred option is utter silence. I find that model loco sound reminds me of the 'canned laughter' on third-rate 1970s tv shows.

In essence, I find it all a little bit tacky, irrespective of how accurate the sound actually is.

 

I must make an admission here in that I've only experienced this stuff at exhibitions.

But frankly, I wasn't impressed at all. If anything, I find it to be annoying.

As much as I appreciate, say a class 40 on full chat in real life, somehow it just doesn't cut it when applied to something that's 76.2 times smaller than the real thing.

 

I find it all rather gimmicky TBH.

 

Any input appreciated.

[Dunsignalling]

In the vast majority of cases, I agree, and I'm generally less than impressed with steam loco sound in anything smaller than 7mm scale.  I don't think the physics really add up for main line running in 4mm as only the largest tender prototypes are big enough to accommodate a speaker that produces any real bass.  

 

I've only come across a handful of layouts where sound truly enhanced the viewing experience for me. In all cases used fairly sparingly and clearly having been planned to broaden the overall effect rather than just being ladled on "because it can".

 

For me, Portchullin (hope I've spelled it correctly) is the shining example of how well sound really can work when it's properly thought through.

 

Diesel depot layouts are often offenders as, with sound running on more than a couple of locos (absolute maximum three) in close proximity to one another, it just merges into an amorphous racket. 

 

John

Edited June 17, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[yelrow]

 Might i suggest you go on line and listen to a MTH loco, with Cab Chatter. Totally changed how sound is conceived. I have 2 of these locos. Not cheap, but incredible. john

[Dunsignalling]

 Might i suggest you go on line and listen to a MTH loco, with Cab Chatter. Totally changed how sound is conceived. I have 2 of these locos. Not cheap, but incredible. john

Sorry, I don't understand any of that, though I assume MTH is a manufacturer I haven't heard of. Foreign? 

 

EDIT: Found it and it's not only O Gauge but SP (American) which is are areas where I expect sound to be OK.

 

I reiterate the first paragraph of my post.

 

John

Edited June 17, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Andymsa]

Although I do have some sound decoder locos, I don't really use it as I tend to find it an annoying. The sound just seems to turn into a right old din. But that said I have it on some locos just to show what DCC can achieve if done right

[birdseyecircus]

I always find that a loco going round and round with sound is very monotonous with little in the way of change of tone.

However a loco shunting with continual stopping and reving up sounds great.

You tend to appreciate it a bit more on a home layout operating it yourself rather than an exhibition hall.

 

Paul

[Puggers]

I am glad that I am not the only one to find sound annoying in locos. I have just watched the video, on the Hornby magazine website, of the fabulous new model of the Stirling single fitted with DCC sound. As the last poster said, the sound, which is very 'tinny' and has virtually no bass, is totally monotonous and, in one of the last scenes with the loco coming into the station, you can hear the sound of the fireman's shovel. Not only would you be very unlikely to hear this in real life but, as the loco went past, you can see that there is no crew in the cab! I think that, particularly in steam loco models which, mostly, do not actually produce steam, it is completely incongruous and comes under the heading of a gimmick and a ploy to try and obtain more money out of us modellers. As far as diesels are concerned, the sound, whilst more appropriate, has a long way to go to match the sound of the real thing. Just go on to YouTube and look at a video of a Deltic in full cry and you will see what I mean.

 

Richard

[ROSSPOP]

Sound   SOUND  SOUND...................

 

Bring it on  B"£$%dy wonderfull....................................

 

Personally I like black and white TV sod the colour stuff!  ..........        progress! who`d av it ??    

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Johnny   

[Andymsa]

Johnny,

 

I think your video reinforces the point very nicely. How long would it be before you turn off the sound. The scale size to scale sound is wrong, take a real steam train when a train is far away you first here it faintly then as it gets closer the sound intensity increases. But on most layouts that chuff chuff sound is pretty constant at the same volume. Sound should be a subtle and add to the atmosphere and not overwhelm it

 

Andy

[Harlequin]

It's obviously quite a personal and subjective thing.

 

It partly depends on how good the installation is and how much the loco's body shell helps or hinders the sound reproduction.

 

There are some very good sound projects with suitable clunks, squeals and gear changes and I suspect that sound quality and subtlety will improve further still over time.

 

I have found one instance where sound really does add to the illusion of reality on a layout and that's when a loco is stationary, waiting to perform it's next duty. With no sound you can't perceive any difference between a steam loco that is stone cold and one that is warm and simmering, or between an inert diesel and one that is idling and faintly vibrating. With sound those stationary locos come to life, and you get a sense of anticipation (well, I do anyway).

 

Here's a little video I made on my dining table a few months ago: 

[ROSSPOP]

Andy

 

The point is these are TOY trains. They are not at all REAL.

 

Modellers strive  towards a level of realism , atmosphere, using all manner of contrivances and effects.

 

a few  get quite close to realism but we will never ever get total perfection.

 

But SOUND save us from having to do this.............................................

 

 

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RWe0ow6fX4

 

 

Cheers

 

Johnny

[ROSSPOP]

Johnny,

 

I think your video reinforces the point very nicely. How long would it be before you turn off the sound. The scale size to scale sound is wrong, take a real steam train when a train is far away you first here it faintly then as it gets closer the sound intensity increases. But on most layouts that chuff chuff sound is pretty constant at the same volume. Sound should be a subtle and add to the atmosphere and not overwhelm it

 

Andy

 

Maybe you hav`nt experienced enough sound examples................................

 

we are , of course listening through variable quality computor speakers, but i think Mr Largo is heading in the right direction......

 

 

 

johnny

[Mike Storey]

Speakers, as much as sound chips, have moved on a very long way in the last few years, especially in those that enhance bass (see the Earth Movers from DC Kits for just one example). It is hard trying to judge sound chip quality off a youtube video, which will have been filmed using probably a cheap VCR or more often now, a mobile phone, and then played back through a laptop speaker or worse, a tablet or mobile phone. The only thing you will really spot is synchronicity, or the lack of it, very common on early steam chips, and a few still available.

 

I take the point about sound at exhibitions, and agree. But at home, in a room with decent acoustics, and with the ability to vary (rev up or down at constant speed to simulate heavy loads, grades or coasting etc) or fade sound in or out on the move these days, I could not imagine possibly going back to what amounts to a silent film. I suspect many of us see and hear sound chips and speakers that go back a way in time, as not many can afford to keep updating to the latest tech, for each of our locos. My earlier chipped versions do indeed sound poor compared to my latest. But one day.....

[cravensdmufan]

I have quite a few of my fleet of diesels sound fitted.  Mostly Legoman, with a few Coastal and a couple of Digitrains.  I also have 8 Hornby TTS. All with upgraded speakers.

 

I do like having the sound in them but have it on very quietly - usually just at 30/192 on Loksounds (and 1/10 on TTS which is still a tad too loud so I resort to phsically muffling the speaker with a piece of foam!). IMO sound should be "scaled" to the loco it's coming out of as well as the viewing distance.  And I only like to hear the sounds that would normally be heard from outside the loco!  I recently bought an expensive "upgraded" 47 which has a loud handbrake cranking automatically coming on before you set off!  Can't get rid of it!  Very annoying! So it really pays to listen to them in the flesh before you buy top of the range ones.

 

I never have more than two going at any one time.  Quite agree with comments about diesel depots at exhibitions.  Couple of months ago there was one with SIX locos loudly ticking over!  Terrible, because it completely spoilt a really well modelled layout.

 

Having said all that, now that  I have a good few fitted all the other locos in the fleet sound eerily silent and very tame - obviously! - so I hardly ever run the unfitted ones!

 

I'm buying more Hornby TTS now at £34 each - they are pretty good once you fine tune the CVs to get smooth running.

 

I have a small layout room and just like a subtle sould especially, as birdseyecircus says, when shunting or moving around the yard. That is pleasing.

 

It's certainly very interesting to read fellow members comments on the subject.

Edited June 17, 2018 by cravensdmufan

[Andymsa]

I have quite a few of my fleet of diesels sound fitted.  Mostly Legoman, with a few Coastal and a couple of Digitrains.  I also have 8 Hornby TTS. All with upgraded speakers.

 

I do like having the sound in them but have it on very quietly - usually just at 30/192 on Loksounds (and 1/10 on TTS which is still a tad too loud so I resort to phsically muffling the speaker with a piece of foam!). IMO sound should be "scaled" to the loco it's coming out of as well as the viewing distance.  And I only like to hear the sounds that would normally be heard from outside the loco!  I recently bought an expensive "upgraded" 47 which has a loud handbrake cranking automatically coming on before you set off!  Can't get rid of it!  Very annoying! So it really pays to listen to them in the flesh before you buy top of the range ones.

 

I never have more than two going at any one time.  Quite agree with comments about diesel depots at exhibitions.  Couple of months ago there was one with SIX locos loudly ticking over!  Terrible, because it completely spoilt a really well modelled layout.

 

Having said all that, now that  I have a good few fitted all the other locos in the fleet sound eerily silent and very tame - obviously! - so I hardly ever run the unfitted ones!

 

I'm buying more Hornby TTS now at £34 each - they are pretty good once you fine tune the CVs to get smooth running.

 

I have a small layout room and just like a subtle sould especially, as birdseyecircus says, when shunting or moving around the yard. That is pleasing.

 

It's certainly very interesting to read fellow members comments on the subject.

A good point about having the sound on quietly, I shall try that myself

[yelrow]

dunsignalling, all mine are HO, not o gauge. And  worth listening to  before you condem sound in principal, superb. john

[NoelG]

Johnny,

 

I think your video reinforces the point very nicely. How long would it be before you turn off the sound. The scale size to scale sound is wrong, take a real steam train when a train is far away you first here it faintly then as it gets closer the sound intensity increases. But on most layouts that chuff chuff sound is pretty constant at the same volume. Sound should be a subtle and add to the atmosphere and not overwhelm it

 

Andy

 

 

I've observed most folk seem to have the DCC sound volume far too high on their home layouts and it can sound overwhelming. Personally I don't like the sound on more than one loco at a time otherwise it all blends into a noisy cacophony. Unfortunately its not possible to simulate doppler nor distance sound effects.  Most DCC sound chips seem to have the default 'out of the box' sound setting way too high.

 

PS: Overall I like DCC sound when used to good effect with subtle volume levels. A recording of background ambient noises can help a layout just as much as a loco.

Edited June 17, 2018 by NoelG

[The Johnster]

My general impression on a subject of which I have little first hand knowledge is that the diesel sounds I have heard on Phil Bullock's videos are amazing, and add very considerably to the atmosphere, but that the manufacturers of steam sounds seem to think that odd bits of white noise are sufficient.  And, IMHO, the idea of using tiny stupid little loudspeakers is a non-starter; the way to go is stereo imaging in headphones, which also cause less offence to people who don't want a noisy main line junction in their homes, though why they wouldn't is beyond me...

[alfsboy]

I quite like sound and there is a turn off option .I model mainly American and what seems to be missing at least at my economic level is the squeal and groans and clatter of a real  train  moaning over switches.

i wish also Hornby TT would make a generic US steam decoder .38 quid sounds about right for a decoder not 100 quid upwards.

[RBAGE]

Maybe you hav`nt experienced enough sound examples................................

 

we are , of course listening through variable quality computor speakers, but i think Mr Largo is heading in the right direction......

 

 

 

johnny

I think the positive influence from this video are not from the quality of sound recording and speaker equipment but fro the use of separation between part of the layout.

As the loco approaches it is quiet because it is in a separate layout area and the only sound heard is through the bridge. As the loco emerges from the bridge the sound bursts onto the layout.

The sound from the loco in the layout area is too loud and is too high pitched. There is certainly no bass to be heard. 

As the train goes away, the loco remains too loud at a distance and it is only when the train goes through another partition that sound diminishes significantly.

 

I have many sound fitted locos and I agree with earlier comments that sound is generally set too loud. This might be necessary at exhibition to be heard over the crowd noise. 

 

I think part of the problem is distance. The models never get far enough away from the operator for the sound to become less didtinct.

 

Also, if you remember lineside trainspotting, the train would approach and you would start to hear the loco. As it passed by, the loco was all you could hear. However, soon after it passed by, the sound of the train would take over and the loco sound was overtaken. As the train moved away, the sound of the train reduced.

With a sound fitted loco on a lineside pass, all you can hear is the loco throughout. 

All this is exaggerated if the sound is set too loud.

 

Under any circumstances and even after spending a great deal of money on sound fitting locos, it does very quickly become annoying.

 

Turn the sound right down to avoid annoyance, even at home, on your own.  

[Andymsa]

There is another way to do sound that's not been touched on, a separate system with speakers placed around the layout, mind you for this to work you need track detection to know what train it is.

[Dunsignalling]

I quite like sound and there is a turn off option .I model mainly American and what seems to be missing at least at my economic level is the squeal and groans and clatter of a real  train  moaning over switches.

i wish also Hornby TT would make a generic US steam decoder .38 quid sounds about right for a decoder not 100 quid upwards.

One thing that is clear from hearing various makes installed in locos of varying size is that you get what you pay for.

 

Not convinced that "generic" sound is likely to be too much of an advance over a Tri-ang B12 with sandpaper on a tender axle.

 

If I ever do get involved, I'm pretty sure that I'll choose really good sound in a few favourite locos over iffy approximations in all of them.

 

The MTH locos advocated by yelrow sound great (once I plug my Skullcandy cans into the laptop), but they should. Quite aside from his being HO and the ones on YouTube being O Scale, the tender on a SP cab forward can hold a speaker three times the size of anything that will fit into a UK loco.

 

John

Edited June 17, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[newbryford]

There is another way to do sound that's not been touched on, a separate system with speakers placed around the layout, mind you for this to work you need track detection to know what train it is.

Broadway have done something similar with their Paragon3 Rolling Thunder.

 

Cheers

Muck

[terrysoham]

You can tell what I feel about sound on my layout.

 

I have a Dapol class 68, two GF class 66s and a GF class 70 all fitted with sound decoders FOR SALE.

[Sails]

Since making the entry into sound I very much enjoy it and have had several diesel locos fitted with sound. I do agree that it is a very personal choice, much like weathering and you are either going to embrace it and use it or avoid it completely.

 

I have found that with both sound and weathering it is well worth the time to review as many providers as possible, considering the financial outlay that is involved. I have had mixed results from several sound file providers and one of the biggest shortfalls in making a good decision on choosing sound can be the quality of some of the examples posted on platforms such as YouTube. Weathering can also be a minefield and some weathering I have received from well-known providers I have had to send away and get re-finished to a higher standard.