New layout limited space (Signalling Help Required)

[chuffinghell]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

It's always going to look wrong. Why is the road not diverted across the tunnel mouth?

 

I agree with keeping the level crossing. It's an interesting feature. Better to lose the tunnel and put in some sort of building (mill/warehouse/factory) as a view blocker.

 

When you say 'look wrong' in what way?.....a crossing next to a tunnel?

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by chuffinghell

[Martin S-C]

Chris - its your railway, build it how you want mate. Nothing looks wrong if you think it looks right. I've got technical howlers on my layout but I don't care. I am not constructing a miniature version of reality, I am modelling the kind of fiction I want to model.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

7 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Why is the road not diverted across the tunnel mouth?

Because the road is the access to the goods yard? Road steepness would make it improbable for a loaded lorry or horse cart to leave the yard.

[chuffinghell]

I went on Google maps today and there’s a level crossing next to a tunnel in bradford-on-avon

 

 

[chuffinghell]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

....I've got technical howlers on my layout but I don't care

 

I think that’s my problem, I let myself get concerned about what others think especially those more knowledgable than myself (not difficult)

 

I don’t want to put hours of work into building something only for someone to say it looks poo

 

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

I am not constructing a miniature version of reality, I am modelling the kind of fiction I want to model.

 

Me neither, my layout is also fictional, just loosely based on the GWR

[Zomboid]

9 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

I don’t want to put hours of work into building something only for someone to say it looks poo

If they did they'd be very rude. Given that it's a permanent layout in your house, you only need to please yourself (and presumably any domestic authorities, but I doubt they'd be concerned with the frequency or otherwise of a tunnel being adjacent to a level crossing).

 

So whilst any advice offered here will be in the spirit of helpfulness, you're under no obligation to follow the bits you don't want to

[Joseph_Pestell]

That example from Bradford-on-Avon (a location that I pass quite frequently on the train) is useful but does not really match your layout situation.

 

At Bradford, the railway, a through route not a line to a terminus, is running parallel to the river and only needs the tunnel to avoid a sharp curve.

 

In GWR days, I doubt if the crossing would have been very busy as that road only led to a mill. Busier now as the mill has been converted to residential.

[chuffinghell]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

If they did they'd be very rude. Given that it's a permanent layout in your house, you only need to please yourself (and presumably any domestic authorities, but I doubt they'd be concerned with the frequency or otherwise of a tunnel being adjacent to a level crossing).

 

So whilst any advice offered here will be in the spirit of helpfulness, you're under no obligation to follow the bits you don't want to

 

The only requirement from the domestic authority is that she would like to see trains running before Christmas.................fortunately she never said which Christmas

 

 

[chuffinghell]

7 hours ago, Zomboid said:

So whilst any advice offered here will be in the spirit of helpfulness, you're under no obligation to follow the bits you don't want to

 

Thats true, I just wouldn't want anyone offering advice to think I was ignoring them

[Martin S-C]

3 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

 

Thats true, I just wouldn't want anyone offering advice to think I was ignoring them

Advice is always intended as helpful, and should never be taken as an instruction. I often ignore it and I promise you no-one on RMWeb will be offended if you choose a different solution. I usually say why I'm ignoring it though - often because there is another way of doing things or I just know what I want even if its not 100% technically correct. I leave those kinds of things to others on RMWeb who like to model stations and scenes in faithfully accurate miniature like the stunning Peterborough North or Grantham to name but two. What they produce is superb but it isn't what I am in this hobby for. In addition you can't follow everyone's advice because very often its conflicting and trying to follow it all you risk ending up in a corner in the foetal position mumbling to yourself.

[chuffinghell]

35 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

......trying to follow it all you risk ending up in a corner in the foetal position mumbling to yourself.

 

Been there, done that 

[chuffinghell]

Point rodding & signals

 

This is what I'm planning, am I any closer?...................it's really getting me down because I haven't got a clue and I close to giving up 

 

or

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by chuffinghell

[chuffinghell]

If someone could let me know which one is correct and/or scribble on my drawing and highlight all the errors it would be appreciated

 

I don't even know if the point levers are on the correct side  

Edited May 17, 2019 by chuffinghell

[Zomboid]

Hand point levers would normally go on the cess side of the track, so from left to right, the first 3 should be underneath the track, and the 4th is on the right place.

 

Hope that was what you meant.

 

Also wouldn't be surprised if the ground frame operated ones were also hand points, I think the frame is only essential if some kind of interlocking or an FPL is needed, and I don't think that's the case for either of those. But what the GWR would have done is another question entirely...

[Siberian Snooper]

On the bottom one, the pair of points that form the loco release crossover would be worked by one lever and so only one rod, the turnout nearest the box drops off the run. As for the hand levers,  they should be arranged as far as possible,  too avoid the shunter having to cross the track.

 

 

[chuffinghell]

13 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Hand point levers would normally go on the cess side of the track, so from left to right, the first 3 should be underneath the track, and the 4th is on the right place

 

That makes sense from a safety point of view

 

13 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Also wouldn't be surprised if the ground frame operated ones were also hand points, I think the frame is only essential if some kind of interlocking or an FPL is needed, and I don't think that's the case for either of those. But what the GWR would have done is another question entirely...

 

I think they are interlocked with the right hand set of points?......if I've understood previous posts correctly (its not fun being thick as sh*t sometimes)

 

It would be easier if they were hand operated, I just have no clue if its correct

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by chuffinghell

[Siberian Snooper]

It's not unknown for run round points to be hand levers.

 

 

[chuffinghell]

35 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

On the bottom one, the pair of points that form the loco release crossover would be worked by one lever and so only one rod

 

I'm assuming a single rod would go via a crank on the first point on to the second?

 

35 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

the turnout nearest the box drops off the run

 

Not sure what you mean here............I wish my IQ was bigger than my shoe size

Edited May 17, 2019 by chuffinghell

[Siberian Snooper]

The driver rod for the first turnout clamps to the underside of the rodding and attaches to the operating crank. Sorry I can't do a sketch as I'm using my tablet.

 

 

[Harlequin]

I have some ideas and I almost posted a drawing but that would probably just add to the confusion...

 

To get a definitive answer I think you need to ask @The Stationmaster.

 

Can you remind us of the era, Chris?

 

[chuffinghell]

6 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I have some ideas and I almost posted a drawing but that would probably just add to the confusion...

 

To get a definitive answer I think you need to ask @The Stationmaster.

 

Can you remind us of the era, Chris?

 

 

I’d appreciate one of your sketches, I can’t be any more confused than I already am

 

Era GWR 1934(ish) to 1942(ish)

[Martin S-C]

I think your second drawing is preferable so that all train movements that don't involve the sidings are controlled from the signal cabin. I agree that via an attached crank the two loco release points would be worked together from one lever. I personally find the extra ground frame to be an unnecessary complication in such a simple station.

Don't get disheartened - you are ALWAYS going to get conflicting advice (or, perhaps put more diplomatically, advice ranging across a spectrum of options) if you ask questions on a forum.

[Harlequin]

This is how I would do it:

Loco release crossover operated from one lever in the 'box, as per Martin. (Both crossovers one lever each, actually.)

Ground disc signalling the release crossover route.

Ground disc for exit from loop / goods, rather than a signal.

Hand point levers as per Zomboid.

Signal cable runs shown in orange.

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Harlequin

[chuffinghell]

I dare not ask the stationmaster, he is very knowledgeable and as such is very intimidating!

 

Him explaining it to me would be the equivalent of Einstein explaining the theory of relativity to a six month old chimp

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by chuffinghell

[chuffinghell]

17 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

This is how I would do it:

Loco release crossover operated from one lever 'box, as per Martin. (Both crossovers one lever each, actually.)

Ground disc signalling the release crossover route.

Ground disc for exit from loop / goods, rather than a signal.

Hand point levers as per Zomboid.

Signal cable runs shown in orange.

 

 

As a draughtsman a drawing to me makes far more sense than writing....being dyslexic doesn’t help, hence why I communicate better with drawings

 

The reason I’m mythering about rods is because I’ll need to make provisions in the track before gluing

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by chuffinghell