Domestic gas supply pipe as far as meter

[Pete 75C]

One for any gas engineers on here, I think.

We're finally getting round to replacing the ramshackle patchwork concrete at the back of the house with a decent patio and the entire area has to be lowered around 6 inches.

Not a massive problem until I remembered back a few years ago when I demolished an old bay window to put in sliding patio doors. Around an inch below (what was then) the inside floor level I discovered the gas supply pipe cutting through the bay to reach the meter on the outside wall by the kitchen window.

Now, to me, that is stupidly shallow and I was led to believe it should be much deeper.

Knowing that the entire 40 sq m of concrete will have to be removed and whatever's underneath excavated down by 6 inches, I decided to carefully hand excavate along the route of the pipe. My thinking is that I know the route of the pipe and a landscaper with a mini JCB won't...

The pipe itself is no deeper than 2 inches below the current surface level. The pipe would appear to be around an inch and a half in diameter, rigid, and wrapped in a yellow plastic(?) sleeve.

As the pipe is rigid, there is no chance of any slack letting me lower the pipe in a deeper trench myself.

I know I need to get someone in to cap off at either end and replace the pipe setting it at a lower level but who is that "someone"? All I can think of is giving National Grid (what used to be Transco) a call and they'll no doubt send someone round. Is this the best or only course of action? I'm pretty sure that the gas supply pipe outside of the house is beyond the remit of a Corgi/Gas Safe plumber.

Advice appreciated.

Pictures below for reference. The 90 degree branch in the second photo leads to a decomissioned 2nd meter that existed years ago when the property had been split into two flats. It is capped where the meter used to be and will need to be removed.

 

[chris p bacon]

Transco....National Grid....Cadent is the outfit responsible for external pipework, it should be 450mm deep with a 'tell tail' above it. I tend to deep trench and duct with draw strings as that avoids any damage at backfill. 

 

Expect to pay a Kings ransom for the joy of them b*ggering you about for a couple of months.

Edited July 22, 2018 by chris p bacon

[Guest]

Transco....National Grid....Cadent is the outfit responsible for external pipework, it should be 450mm deep with a 'tell tail' above it. I tend to deep trench and duct with draw strings as that avoids any damage at backfill. 

 

Expect to pay a Kings ransom for the joy of them b*ggering you about for a couple of months.

 

Joy. Can't wait...

[chris p bacon]

You might be lucky, but they're not renowned around this area for speed of working.

 

There are planned works in my road for a complete renewal of metal pipes and that is somewhat behind schedule, they're also closing the main road into town and didn't see a reason to tell Highways even though the A1 is a trunk route so I foresee chaos...but that's another story...

[duncan]

Shouldn't whoever initially laid the pipe have put it deeper.  If it was one of the predecessors of Cadent, shouldn't they be doing the remedial work both free & very quickly ?

[chris p bacon]

Shouldn't whoever initially laid the pipe have put it deeper.  If it was one of the predecessors of Cadent, shouldn't they be doing the remedial work both free & very quickly ?

 

 

 

They don't and won't do that.

 

As Pete says,  the pipe was initially partly internal so only had to be below the floorboards/floor. The pipe also looks to be approx 30 years old so the ground levels could have been different when it was initially installed or there were other factors stopping deep dig. 

[Guest]

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of Cadent, Dave.

I visited their website and lo and behold, there was a section for "domestic alterations" to gas supply.

Having entered my postcode and jumped through all the hoops, they decided that the price I need to pay is £700 incl. VAT for a 5m run or £970 for a 5-10m run. That's not as colossal as I was expecting. That price does, however, assume I want the meter moved. I don't. It also assumes they will "make good" any mess they make. I don't want them to. They also quote a lead time of 6-8 weeks. I can live with that.

They're going to give me a call to confirm some details within 2 days and they *may* need to send someone round before they can finalise the price.

All good so far but I guess there's a lot that could go wrong...

[Guest]

Shouldn't whoever initially laid the pipe have put it deeper.  If it was one of the predecessors of Cadent, shouldn't they be doing the remedial work both free & very quickly ?

 

In an ideal world, yes. And when the job's done (for free) they should bring me cake and biscuits.

Sadly, I reckon it'll cost me though.

You're absolutely right though that it should have been laid deeper. When I took up the carpet and underlay in the bay window before demolishing the bay, I could actually see the pipe through the concrete screed. How safe was that?

[chris p bacon]

In an ideal world, yes. And when the job's done (for free) they should bring me cake and biscuits.

Sadly, I reckon it'll cost me though.

You're absolutely right though that it should have been laid deeper. When I took up the carpet and underlay in the bay window before demolishing the bay, I could actually see the pipe through the concrete screed. How safe was that?

 

As I always hear. "They don't build them like they used to" . ..thank F for that!

[melmerby]

When I took up the carpet and underlay in the bay window before demolishing the bay, I could actually see the pipe through the concrete screed. How safe was that?

Just deep enough for a carpet fitter with nail gun to puncture it when putting in the grippers!

 

Keith

[DaveF]

Shouldn't whoever initially laid the pipe have put it deeper.  If it was one of the predecessors of Cadent, shouldn't they be doing the remedial work both free & very quickly ?

 

Sometimes they will do the remedial work free of charge.

 

In my case it was found that almost every house near me, including mine, had a plastic gas pipe under the garage floor slab (which had been laid by the developer), even the ones where the garage itself had been built by the developer when the houses were built.  It also transpired that all the houses had planning permission for the garages and in some cases extensions, and that building regulations had been followed, with on site inspections.

 

We all now have new sections of drive (in some cases block paving) and new parts of garage floors and new metal gas pipes.  Where extensions had been built and the garage converted to living space extensive works had to be carried out.

 

In the end the gas company (Northern Gas Networks) spent several months replacing the piping to all the properties, and in some cases moving meters to a better position without charge.

 

Apparently it was down to an error made by British Gas when the houses were built.

 

Somewhere approaching 100 houses were affected.

 

David

Edited July 22, 2018 by DaveF

[JJGraphics]

. . . apparently it was down to an error made by British Gas when the houses were built.

 

British Gas making errors? No, surely not! (Cynical laughter, exit stage right).

 

John

[Enterprisingwestern]

. . . apparently it was down to an error made by British Gas when the houses were built.

 

British Gas making errors? No, surely not! (Cynical laughter, exit stage right).

 

John

 

Depends which British Gas you are referring to though!

 

Mike.

[polybear]

As I always hear. "They don't build them like they used to" . ..thank F for that!

 

I recall (in a very, very bored moment) watching one of those "DIY SOS" telly programmes.  Whereupon the BCO was insisting that the UPVC conservatory (not a huge one) was built on piles......they were still drilling at 15m.  C'mon....

[chris p bacon]

I recall (in a very, very bored moment) watching one of those "DIY SOS" telly programmes.  Whereupon the BCO was insisting that the UPVC conservatory (not a huge one) was built on piles......they were still drilling at 15m.  C'mon....

 

 

Funnily enough I've seen a conservatory built on a raft which tipped, they'd put so many anchors into the uprights and first rafter it pulled some large sections of brickwork out of the rear wall, mainly below windows but not a cheap fix.

 

15M is a lot though.

[melmerby]

Shouldn't whoever initially laid the pipe have put it deeper.  If it was one of the predecessors of Cadent, shouldn't they be doing the remedial work both free & very quickly ?

I remember seeing a DIY programme where a mini digger was being used to dig up part of a garden.

One of the first things they dug up was a electric company's supply cable which wasn't very far below the surface.

 

Keith

[Enterprisingwestern]

I remember seeing a DIY programme where a mini digger was being used to dig up part of a garden.

One of the first things they dug up was a electric company's supply cable which wasn't very far below the surface.

 

Keith

 

A fairly regular call out for me was to people gardening who had managed to find the plastic gas service, even when laid at the requisite depth.

The request for the (invariably) fork which did the damage, and my re-inserting it in the hole they had so assiduously made, caused some amazement.

 

Mike.

[Guius]

I had a similar problem as you Pete, the estimate for re routing the main gas pipe got in to four figures and six month wait. Again, as with your pipe mine was only 2" below yard concrete (not 18" as required). 

Whilst building my conservatory I accidently nicked the pipe (not enough to cause a leak thankfully) with an angle grinder whilst cutting a roofing slate in the yard, after a 'phone call the gas fitters where round in 20 mins to replace the pipe and reconnect the old meter in new location,

Now, of course, I wouldn't recommend this as a stratagem, if any one was foolish enough to be thinking of "staging" a similar accident but, by the dint of a main gas pipe installed at a very shallow and unexpected depth and my slate trimming activities, I was very thankful not to be injured and have my main gas pipe problem solved inadvertently.

 

 

Guy

[Mark Forrest]

We had an issue where the gas supply to our house ran through a drainage pipe, presumably installed using a pipe mole. We discovered it when rerouting the drains after making some changes in the kitchen.

Transco/Cadent (whatever they were called about 5 years ago) came out and replaced the pipe and moved it so it no longer went through the drain, don't recall there being any cost to us and seem to remember it being dealt with fairly quickly.

[37114]

I had to get the gas pipe moved for our last house extension, cost about £500 but only had to wait a couple of weeks. I did the online form but when the guy from the company rang me back he went through what was needed and saved me some cash as we didn't need them to backfill the trench/ make good as our builders did as part of their work, so maybe worth a call to them?

[Guest]

I had to get the gas pipe moved for our last house extension, cost about £500 but only had to wait a couple of weeks. I did the online form but when the guy from the company rang me back he went through what was needed and saved me some cash as we didn't need them to backfill the trench/ make good as our builders did as part of their work, so maybe worth a call to them?

 

I did the online form as well, and am waiting a call-back. Just as well, really, as having carefully done a little more excavation around the meter box, I've made a discovery... the pipe seen in the photos above isn't the one that enters the meter. It bypasses the meter and enters the house. The pipe from the meter is sleeved in rubber and runs a lot deeper. Deep enough not to be in my way. That leads me to believe the pipe lying close to the surface is redundant, especially as the branch from it terminates in a simple uncapped cut end full of soil...

Looks like major works won't be needed (thankfully), but I will need someone to come round and verify that it's safe to take out. I'll wait for Cadent to call me back and take it from there.

[melmerby]

I had a similar problem as you Pete, the estimate for re routing the main gas pipe got in to four figures and six month wait. Again, as with your pipe mine was only 2" below yard concrete (not 18" as required). 

Whilst building my conservatory I accidently nicked the pipe (not enough to cause a leak thankfully) with an angle grinder whilst cutting a roofing slate in the yard, after a 'phone call the gas fitters where round in 20 mins to replace the pipe and reconnect the old meter in new location,

Now, of course, I wouldn't recommend this as a stratagem, if any one was foolish enough to be thinking of "staging" a similar accident but, by the dint of a main gas pipe installed at a very shallow and unexpected depth and my slate trimming activities, I was very thankful not to be injured and have my main gas pipe problem solved inadvertently.

 

 

Guy

My missus used to work for a council department that did a lot of site works.

Unknown services in the way of planned work were frequently "accidentally" damaged so the responsible party would have to come out and do something about them.

I understand this was fairly normal practice in the construction industry when somebody was doing building work and found services that shouldn't be there.

Sometimes they were redundant, sometimes not but at least it got them out of the way pretty smartish.

 

Keith

[28XX]

Agency staff working under my direction knicked the coupling of a water pipe while trying to lay a new cable to the telephone exchange.

 

This was the result.

 

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/01/13/3000-homes-hit-in-tipton-flood/

[Guest]

Cadent called this morning, well within the 3 working day promise. Having said that I may have made an error and that I now presumed the supposed "live" pipe to be redundant, she raised a call to the mobile engineer on "safety" grounds. He's just been and pronounced the shallow pipe dead. I can now remove it at my leisure. He's also verified that the live pipe is deep enough not to interfere with further excavations, as I only need to go down 6 inches. Cost = zero, waiting time = zero. I really can't fault them at all. The engineer arrived so quickly, he must have run all the way. He didn't even tut at me and give me a lecture for excavating around what I originally thought to be the live supply.