Yellow ends

[russ p]

So far the only trains actually operating without yellow fronts have been those on test runs or the new cross rail stock. The GWR 800s have a yellow nose as does the red LNER / RX VT liveried 800.

As such it is far too early to draw any conclusions as to the lack of yellow ends.

Once Crossrail is fully open, all the TPE stock in operation, etc then we will better be able to comment on the situation.

However I will reiterate what I said on the now lock thread - NOBODY has any right to make assertions about yellow ends (or dismish the benefits thereof) ends other than track workers whose lives depend on having the best possible view of trains in all situations.

What's your unions views on it Phil?

[phil-b259]

What's your unions views on it Phil?

 

The frustrating thing is (as with lots of practical things - in contrast to going on about how wonderful a full socialist Utopia led by Mr Cobyn would be) there is very little evidence of the RMT having an opinion at all! While they will probably say they have consulted their reps (and may have done for all I know) there was no attempt to engage front line staff directly on their views.

 

In any case, as the DfT lacked any backbone* and refused to tell the EU where it could stick that tiny bit of the TSI regulations (I mean come on, its only the application of a bit of yellow paint and is hardly something any potential international operator will find hard to apply - unlike shirking their stock to fit within the UK loading gauge), whatever the Union said would have made very little difference. As with the DOO saga or electrification clearances, once an official body like the ORR says something is 'safe' or the standard is 'x', then there is virtually nothing anyone can do.

 

I fear that this head in the sand would only ever be changed if there is an increase in near misses (staff and public at level crossings etc) - but even then I'm sure the paper pushers will find plenty of other factors things to focus on instead.

 

Please note:- The problem is not the concept of a pane European set of TSI regulations - particularly in technical matters, its the way WESTMINSTER (not Brussels) refuses to make a stand and instead try and gold plate everything instead - oh while simultaneously pretending its all the fault of that nasty EU to placate certain political groupings.

Edited July 26, 2018 by phil-b259

[Steadfast]

Anyone else find the uber bright headlights that meet these modern standards (personal experience of class 800, retrofit on class 165/166, DB and FL 66, 59003) appear to shimmer as though in a heat haze which can make it difficult, at low speeds, to discern if the train is moving or not. At least with a bright coloured front you have a large frontal aspect to help detect if it's getting bigger or not. Black front end could make it tricky. The previous generation of very bright lights (later 66s, 70, retro fit on GWR sprinters etc) don't seem to have the same shimmer effect, presumably because they're not as bright. The most recent lights are blinding.

 

Jo

[phil-b259]

Anyone else find the uber bright headlights that meet these modern standards (personal experience of class 800, retrofit on class 165/166, DB and FL 66, 59003) appear to shimmer as though in a heat haze which can make it difficult, at low speeds, to discern if the train is moving or not. At least with a bright coloured front you have a large frontal aspect to help detect if it's getting bigger or not. Black front end could make it tricky. The previous generation of very bright lights (later 66s, 70, retro fit on GWR sprinters etc) don't seem to have the same shimmer effect, presumably because they're not as bright. The most recent lights are blinding.

 

Jo

 

Just to point out to folk that some lines are (i) very straight and (ii) have quite a lot of parallel tracks with no connections between them for long distances, (iii) have extremely frequent services (vi) but have line speeds below 100mph*

 

As such the "well just move to a place of safety the moment you see something that might be an approaching train", while appropriate for many places, is not appropriate for all and does have the potential to totally wreck the ability of lineside workers to be productive during their shift.

 

Now obviously that doesn't mean productivity should come before safety, nor that workers should take risks (its always best to err on the side of caution until proved otherwise) - but its a recognition that if you want to stay totally safe from trains you would never leave the depot and a certain amount of common sense is needed. Namely if it can be determined that the train cannot be routed through the area you are working then it may be possible to resume work sooner or even not stop working at all.

 

The presence of a large block of highly visible colour (yellow, Red, etc. particularly when combined with a distinctive feature like a gangway door) helps in this matter far more than the presence of headlights**

 

* According to the safety standards if the linespeed is 90mph and the minimum 'sighting time' (from when the lookout giving a warning and you start moving clear to the train passing you) is calculated to be 15 seconds, then you must start to clear the line when the train is when the train is 660 yards / 650m away from you. If you can see for 2 miles however because the weather is fine and the track is dead straight then getting clear can use up valuable time - particularly if it is able to be determined that the approaching train is not on your line when it is 0.5mile / 850m away.

 

** note as working on the tracks in darkness, etc with lookout protection is banned for all practical purposes and requires line blockages to be obtained from the signaller, the number of, brightness of, or mere presence of headlights is irrelevant to this discussion

Edited July 26, 2018 by phil-b259

[slilley]

Brian

 

Working on the railway was a pretty dangerous job in 'the old days', in common with many other jobs.

 

The NRM has a big project running to look at the history of rail worker safety, and they've so far analysed a bare 3% of the incidents affecting railway workers in Britain and Ireland, spanning 1911-15, which amounts to an astonishing 3929 cases, of which 777 were fatalities, and the rest injuries of varying severity.

 

Read those numbers again, because they are huge!

 

Of that lot, 351 people were killed while out on the track (so, nearly half of the deaths), and 587 were injured on the track. (Keep reminding yourself folks, this is based on analysis of only 3% of the incidents!). Shunting killed 205 and injured 1289.

 

Even if the remaining 97% of incidents turn out on analysis to be minor paper cuts, the numbers are shocking.

 

oh, and railways were 'safe' workplaces, compared with mines and deep sea trawlers.

 

Next time someone starts talking 'elf n safety gone mad', it might be worth pointing out to them the long run trends, and how attention to worker safety has cut the toll across numerous industries.

 

Kevin

 

Each month at the BR Board meeting the Head of Personnel or whatever they were called would report on staff killed in the line of duty.  He would include a summary of the deceased's personal circumstances, wife, children etc. An average of 3 or 4 staff a month were being killed, often by being struck by trains, hence the introduction of yellow panels and then full yellow ends. In parallel with that came the start of HI Vi vests for some staff working treackside, though that took a number of years to really take effect. Early issues of HiVis were to staff on the London Midland.

 

The attached two documents from 1986 and 1987 should also add to understanding as to the rules at the time.

[Nearholmer]

I tried to find long-run stats for worker fatalities, ideally normalised by something like train miles operated, but couldn't. HMRI probably have the data going back to before 1900.

 

It would be interesting to see whether there are noticeable 'down steps' when significant safety improvements, like the ones you mention, were introduced.

[slilley]

I tried to find long-run stats for worker fatalities, ideally normalised by something like train miles operated, but couldn't. HMRI probably have the data going back to before 1900.

 

It would be interesting to see whether there are noticeable 'down steps' when significant safety improvements, like the ones you mention, were introduced.

 If you access the monthly meetings of the BTC and then the BRB at the National Archives you should be able to put something together. It will be the supporting papers you want as thats where there is a summary of how each person was killed

[45125]

Anyone else find the uber bright headlights that meet these modern standards (personal experience of class 800, retrofit on class 165/166, DB and FL 66, 59003) appear to shimmer as though in a heat haze which can make it difficult, at low speeds, to discern if the train is moving or not. At least with a bright coloured front you have a large frontal aspect to help detect if it's getting bigger or not. Black front end could make it tricky. The previous generation of very bright lights (later 66s, 70, retro fit on GWR sprinters etc) don't seem to have the same shimmer effect, presumably because they're not as bright. The most recent lights are blinding.

 

Jo

 

Most of the new headlands are far too bright, it is sometimes hard to judge how far away the train is. Another problem with the lack of yellow ends is on depots at night, many off the new depots have lighting at almost the same height as the LED marker lights and these soon disappear among the the lighting, the angle of the LED is also very narrow so make them even harder to see, same applies to the cycles light.

[royaloak]

That is part of the problem but the root of it is cost cutting by network rail

As Network Rail are having their budget reduced in real terms year on year where do you suggest the savings are made If not the vegetation budget?

[wombatofludham]

As someone who has only had a limited trackside experience (in the days of the PTS certificate and only occasionally) but lives in an area with lots of foot, open and user worked level crossings hidden behind hedges cunningly growing to hide headlights on trains where a flash of yellow against the green hills is highly visible, I pose two questions to the branding farties and polo-necked aesthetes who decry the yellow end.

 

1.  How many potential passengers have said "I'm not catching that monstrous train as the yellow paint is just too ugly?"

2.  When you are on the train, can you actually see the horrible, ghastly yellow end?

3.  Given the likely answers to both those, in what way does the abolition of the yellow end improve profitability for your franchise?

 

I suspect it will take the death of a track worker, or more likely someone using a foot crossing or farm crossing, being killed by a black fronted stealth unit to quietly see the re-imposition of a yellow, orange or other high contrast colur on the front of new trains.  

[russ p]

As Network Rail are having their budget reduced in real terms year on year where do you suggest the savings are made If not the vegetation budget?

How about reducing management levels for a start.

I hate to say this and I hope I'm wrong but this ridiculous level of vegetation is going to cause a fatality.

[phil-b259]

I'm surprised you lads can actually see any trains at the moment!

I have NEVER seen the railway so overgrown as it is at the moment some one high up in network rail wants to be held account for it . It's bloody lethal apart from looking a mess.

You can't see us we can't see you and some poor soul is going to see a train at the last second and have nowhere to go because the cess is so overgrown.

All very well putting up all sorts of signs to make up for contractors lack of training but then lettering the lineside getting so overgrown is unacceptable.

It seems to be a national problem too.

Not been on a saloon lately to question network rail managers about it

 

 

As Network Rail are having their budget reduced in real terms year on year where do you suggest the savings are made If not the vegetation budget?

 

 

The thing is down my way (Sussex) NR have spent lots of money on cutting back vegetation - indeed in some places I've never seen it so bare in the 17 odd years I have been working on the railway.

 

Of course the current dry spell is helping inhibit further growth and if money is tight* then it won't take long for the previous jungles to re-establish themselves by next year.

 

With more powers being devolved back to the routes it is of course possible that other areas may have spent the money on other things - or that they started late so work got stopped halfway through when lineside residents + the environmental brigade started causing political problems and getting MPs involved.

 

 

* I have heard that one of the reasons the BML blockade this Autumn has been scrapped is there isn't enough money in the kitty to go ahead and replace Copyhold junction points in CP5 - so we are expected to keep bodgeing them and applying short term fixes to keep them half reliable until money can be found in CP6. I believe that the Feltham resignalling has also been pushed back into CP6 for much the same reason (i.e. money - or the lack of). Of course thanks to the timetable fiasco in May, postponing these much needed works is being portrayed as "listening / trying to minimise the disruption to passengers".....

[wombatofludham]

The thing is down my way (Sussex) NR have spent lots of money on cutting back vegetation - indeed in some places I've never seen it so bare in the 17 odd years I have been working on the railway.

 

Of course the current dry spell is helping inhibit further growth and if money is tight* then it won't take long for the previous jungles to re-establish themselves by next year.

 

With more powers being devolved back to the routes it is of course possible that other areas may have spent the money on other things - or that they started late so work got stopped halfway through when lineside residents + the environmental brigade started causing political problems and getting MPs involved.

 

 

* I have heard that one of the reasons the BML blockade this Autumn has been scrapped is there isn't enough money in the kitty to go ahead and replace Copyhold junction points in CP5 - so we are expected to keep bodgeing them and applying short term fixes to keep them half reliable until money can be found in CP6. I believe that the Feltham resignalling has also been pushed back into CP6 for much the same reason (i.e. money - or the lack of). Of course thanks to the timetable fiasco in May, postponing these much needed works is being portrayed as "listening / trying to minimise the disruption to passengers".....

 

Did someone accidentally chop down the Magic Money Tree during the vegetation clearance?  Careless...

[Ncarter2]

As someone who has only had a limited trackside experience (in the days of the PTS certificate and only occasionally) but lives in an area with lots of foot, open and user worked level crossings hidden behind hedges cunningly growing to hide headlights on trains where a flash of yellow against the green hills is highly visible, I pose two questions to the branding farties and polo-necked aesthetes who decry the yellow end.

 

1. How many potential passengers have said "I'm not catching that monstrous train as the yellow paint is just too ugly?"

2. When you are on the train, can you actually see the horrible, ghastly yellow end?

3. Given the likely answers to both those, in what way does the abolition of the yellow end improve profitability for your franchise?

 

I suspect it will take the death of a track worker, or more likely someone using a foot crossing or farm crossing, being killed by a black fronted stealth unit to quietly see the re-imposition of a yellow, orange or other high contrast colur on the front of new trains.

At the risk of causing out rage I would like to express what is my feeling and opinion on yellow fronts.

 

Having been trackside all of my career and having had the privilege of working on both West coast mainline between Cheddington and Stoke, I was based out of Rugby, and the MML around the Sheffield area before moving to the Wessex route I don’t feel they make a difference. Casing point, the Pendolino’s that have been running on the route since 2002 do not have the largest yellow panel and while I was still on the route a substantial number would run with the coupling cover open leaving little visible yellow. None of my colleagues over the depots or departments ever had concerns about not being able to see a 125mph train at the required distance. I have held a lookout ticket nearly as long as I have been on the railway and had the joys of being site intermediate and distant. One could argue using blue and white chequered flags especially in the winter months when light levels are lower and weather can reduce visability, but we did and still do despite modern systems being available yet not used because we prefer the old method. If a train is that close to someone to be hit because it did not have a yellow end I would suspect there was more too it, I know there are other factors, i dea with them daily in my job. We all have own opinions, so we should, but some arguments just make no sense. If you cannot see a train at the required distance you don’t start work simple as that. If it then becomes apparent that the lack of yellow ends is reason it needs to be investigated, but as per my reference above with the Pendolinos I personally struggle, I remember one shift I was looking out on the line between Rugby and Coventry. We accessed the track at longlawford and began walking towards Coventry. I was able to see the Pendolinos, some with covers open and some closed, at the same time as they come off the curve near Brandon and hit the near 6 mile straight once they crested the horizon. The hardest part was for the Coss on when he wanted the warnings. As I say that is just my opinion and feeling, in no way do I mean to say others are wrong, if that’s what some feel comfortable with then so be it. It’s all down to personal choice and preference, mine being yellow ends make little to no difference to me or anyone I have had the pleasure to work with so far.

[Zomboid]

In any case, as the DfT lacked any backbone* and refused to tell the EU where it could stick that tiny bit of the TSI regulations (I mean come on, its only the application of a bit of yellow paint and is hardly something any potential international operator will find hard to apply - unlike shirking their stock to fit within the UK loading gauge), whatever the Union said would have made very little difference. As with the DOO saga or electrification clearances, once an official body like the ORR says something is 'safe' or the standard is 'x', then there is virtually nothing anyone can do.

There's nothing to stand up to, the TSI doesn't mandate a non-yellow end, it just doesn't require one either (as you'd expect given that yellow ends are used in a minority of countries affected). Whatever the UK authority on these things is has said that a TSI compliant train doesn't need yellow paint.

[kevinlms]

Indeed. If I were foolish enough to own any kind of Moneypit though (apart from my mortgaged house lol) I'd be fighting that all the way.

This is exactly what 19th Century railways did, regarding automatic brakes, interlocked points & signals and the Absolute Block system. They stalled all the way, until the government imposed LAWS.

[wombatofludham]

At the risk of causing out rage I would like to express what is my feeling and opinion on yellow fronts.

 

Having been trackside all of my career and having had the privilege of working on both West coast mainline between Cheddington and Stoke, I was based out of Rugby, and the MML around the Sheffield area before moving to the Wessex route I don’t feel they make a difference. Casing point, the Pendolino’s that have been running on the route since 2002 do not have the largest yellow panel and while I was still on the route a substantial number would run with the coupling cover open leaving little visible yellow. None of my colleagues over the depots or departments ever had concerns about not being able to see a 125mph train at the required distance. I have held a lookout ticket nearly as long as I have been on the railway and had the joys of being site intermediate and distant. One could argue using blue and white chequered flags especially in the winter months when light levels are lower and weather can reduce visability, but we did and still do despite modern systems being available yet not used because we prefer the old method. If a train is that close to someone to be hit because it did not have a yellow end I would suspect there was more too it, I know there are other factors, i dea with them daily in my job. We all have own opinions, so we should, but some arguments just make no sense. If you cannot see a train at the required distance you don’t start work simple as that. If it then becomes apparent that the lack of yellow ends is reason it needs to be investigated, but as per my reference above with the Pendolinos I personally struggle, I remember one shift I was looking out on the line between Rugby and Coventry. We accessed the track at longlawford and began walking towards Coventry. I was able to see the Pendolinos, some with covers open and some closed, at the same time as they come off the curve near Brandon and hit the near 6 mile straight once they crested the horizon. The hardest part was for the Coss on when he wanted the warnings. As I say that is just my opinion and feeling, in no way do I mean to say others are wrong, if that’s what some feel comfortable with then so be it. It’s all down to personal choice and preference, mine being yellow ends make little to no difference to me or anyone I have had the pleasure to work with so far.

 

Interesting viewpoint.  My major concern is less with those whose business is on or about the railway who, from my limited experience, usually (although not always where contractors are concerned) are trained and have for the most part experience and know what to look for.

 

Here in Wales we have a large number of foot and farm or user worked crossings.  These are used by the general public.  Now, I'm quite strident in my opinions of the public, using terms that offend some like the "gene puddle" and "numpties", but I won't apologise for that.  For the most part the public are stupid.  They walk around and cross main roads with headphones on blocking out the sound of the 40 ton truck hurtling towards them.  They walk along the railway thinking the trains have stopped to save five minutes then wonder where the works train about to chop off their legs has come from.  They drive into the side of a train crossing an open level crossing because they were texting (the last two have happened round here in the past few years).  Generally if you think that something is too far fetched or stupid to consider possible, Joe and Joanna Briton will do it.  On that basis you may think what is the point of a yellow end on a train?

 

The point is for every gene puddle swimmer, for every Nora Numpty, there are people who take care crossing the many open and unregulated crossings on less important routes, and do so with diligence.  Not all user crossings have telephones, so it is a case of "keep 'em peeled".  These people won't know a black fronted Trans Pennine Nova 1 from a dayglow yellow class 150, but they know trains are fast, quiet and dangerous.  Now, I know of one footpath crossing near here where there are hedges up to about window height which if you come at it from the landward side (it leads down to a beach popular with dog walkers) you won't see any lights.  You will see a yellow end (except at night but you won't be going down an unlit path to a beach at night, well, unlikely) and hopefully, if it's not blowing a hoolie and the walker is hooded up, you'll hear a horn.  However, if the train had a dark or even more lethally round here next to the sea, a grey end, you might not necessarily catch the train's approach as soon as you would with a brighter coloured high visibility end.

 

Okay, this scenario is quite specific but there are lots of foot crossings used by locals who for the past 50 plus years have got used to seeing a yellow end and thinking train. It does work - I was approaching Buttington half barrier level crossing just outside Welshpool the other week and caught a glimpse of the yellow end of a four car 158 approaching at speed from the Shrewsbury direction, so instinctively started to brake ready for the crossing to light up and barriers to descend.  I couldn't see the headlights for vegetation.  My passenger, who hadn't seen the train, thought I either knew the timetable backwards or was psychic but it shows how the yellow end can help those who don't normally have recourse to be trackside but occasionally might have need to cross the line at a point where they might not be a signal phone to spot a train a few seconds faster than otherwise, especially in conditions of low, bright sun which can render a lot of headlamps invisible.

 

Yellow ends on their own are not a panacea.  However, for the small amount of money they cost to apply they potentially could be the last second attention grabber that stops a member of the great British gene puddle from a nasty end.

[Reorte]

Particularly if the only reason they are not yellow is because some corporate branding wonk has decided that it doesn't suit whichever GCSE Graphic Design / Art failure livery they've designed. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

In any case the graphics people often seem quite adapt at successfully working in yellow ends into just about any livery, so what's even the incentive there to do away with them? Really does seem to be a case of "if it ain't broken don't fix it."

[Wheatley]

Now, I know of one footpath crossing near here where there are hedges up to about window height which if you come at it from the landward side (it leads down to a beach popular with dog walkers) you won't see any lights.  You will see a yellow end (except at night but you won't be going down an unlit path to a beach at night, well, unlikely) and hopefully, if it's not blowing a hoolie and the walker is hooded up, you'll hear a horn.  However, if the train had a dark or even more lethally round here next to the sea, a grey end, you might not necessarily catch the train's approach as soon as you would with a brighter coloured high visibility end....  It does work - I was approaching Buttington half barrier level crossing just outside Welshpool the other week and caught a glimpse of the yellow end of a four car 158 approaching at speed from the Shrewsbury direction, so instinctively started to brake ready for the crossing to light up and barriers to descend.  I couldn't see the headlights for vegetation. 

 

That. Headlights only work if you can see them. Something yellow moving, even if partly obscured by vegitation, catches your eye.  

Edited July 27, 2018 by Wheatley

[phil-b259]

At the risk of causing out rage I would like to express what is my feeling and opinion on yellow fronts.

 

Having been trackside all of my career and having had the privilege of working on both West coast mainline between Cheddington and Stoke, I was based out of Rugby, and the MML around the Sheffield area before moving to the Wessex route I don’t feel they make a difference. Casing point, the Pendolino’s that have been running on the route since 2002 do not have the largest yellow panel and while I was still on the route a substantial number would run with the coupling cover open leaving little visible yellow. None of my colleagues over the depots or departments ever had concerns about not being able to see a 125mph train at the required distance. I have held a lookout ticket nearly as long as I have been on the railway and had the joys of being site intermediate and distant. One could argue using blue and white chequered flags especially in the winter months when light levels are lower and weather can reduce visability, but we did and still do despite modern systems being available yet not used because we prefer the old method. If a train is that close to someone to be hit because it did not have a yellow end I would suspect there was more too it, I know there are other factors, i dea with them daily in my job. We all have own opinions, so we should, but some arguments just make no sense. If you cannot see a train at the required distance you don’t start work simple as that. If it then becomes apparent that the lack of yellow ends is reason it needs to be investigated, but as per my reference above with the Pendolinos I personally struggle, I remember one shift I was looking out on the line between Rugby and Coventry. We accessed the track at longlawford and began walking towards Coventry. I was able to see the Pendolinos, some with covers open and some closed, at the same time as they come off the curve near Brandon and hit the near 6 mile straight once they crested the horizon. The hardest part was for the Coss on when he wanted the warnings. As I say that is just my opinion and feeling, in no way do I mean to say others are wrong, if that’s what some feel comfortable with then so be it. It’s all down to personal choice and preference, mine being yellow ends make little to no difference to me or anyone I have had the pleasure to work with so far.

Very interesting to hear the views of a fellow track worker on this - even if they are different from my own.

 

Obviously things like the nature of the lines each person works on, the types of work they do and regional prefrances can make what works in one area be less than optimal in another.

[Trog]

^{I always liked the yellow end, as it works well in very hot weather the heat shimmer making the yellow front twinkle in a very eye catching way. While the lights effectiveness is reduced by the competition from the sun and by the beam being broken up by the same shimmer. On an OHL equipped line the shadows of the masts can also make the yellow end flicker the direction and speed of the flicker up or down giving an idea of the trains speed and direction. As the front of the train has to be painted anyway the yellow patch is essentially free, so should be maintained by any organisation with any pretentions towards safety as even if it is only occasionally of use it is still something for nothing.}

[62613]

^{I always liked the yellow end, as it works well in very hot weather the heat shimmer making the yellow front twinkle in a very eye catching way. While the lights effectiveness is reduced by the competition from the sun and by the beam being broken up by the same shimmer. On an OHL equipped line the shadows of the masts can also make the yellow end flicker the direction and speed of the flicker up or down giving an idea of the trains speed and direction. As the front of the train has to be painted anyway the yellow patch is essentially free, so should be maintained by any organisation with any pretentions towards safety as even if it is only occasionally of use it is still something for nothing.}

Yes! Ten years ago I worked for six weeks at an engineering design consultancy based at Cheadle Hulme, using the train to get to and from work. This effect was very noticable for trains travelling to/from Stockport

[PatB]

Whilst I'm not really qualified to offer an actual opinion, as I haven't worked in the rail industry, I have worked in areas where the widespread adoption of hi-viz (both personnel and equipment) has coincided with substantial reductions in accident rates. Whether that change was causal or coincidental may be open to question. However, I suspect better visibility made some contribution, but as part of a much broader suite of changes that were adopted in response to some truly appalling figures which came to light a couple of decades ago.

 

TBH I can't think of a truly compelling reason why you wouldn't put a hi-viz colour on the front of a train.

 

It's probably worth bearing in mind, though, that yellow warning panels were introduced at a time when PW working practices were more akin to those of the Victorian era, with many more workers on live lines, less easy communication between those on the ground and operating staff, and often margins of safety that would be considered wholly intolerable today. The YWP is really a last line of defence. I would hope that modern working practices have improved to make the need for that last line of defence less frequent than it was 50 years ago.

[phil-b259]

Whilst I'm not really qualified to offer an actual opinion, as I haven't worked in the rail industry, I have worked in areas where the widespread adoption of hi-viz (both personnel and equipment) has coincided with substantial reductions in accident rates. Whether that change was causal or coincidental may be open to question. However, I suspect better visibility made some contribution, but as part of a much broader suite of changes that were adopted in response to some truly appalling figures which came to light a couple of decades ago.

 

TBH I can't think of a truly compelling reason why you wouldn't put a hi-viz colour on the front of a train.

 

It's probably worth bearing in mind, though, that yellow warning panels were introduced at a time when PW working practices were more akin to those of the Victorian era, with many more workers on live lines, less easy communication between those on the ground and operating staff, and often margins of safety that would be considered wholly intolerable today. The YWP is really a last line of defence. I would hope that modern working practices have improved to make the need for that last line of defence less frequent than it was 50 years ago.

 

However that 'last line of defence' can still prove vital.

 

For example it might be a surprise to some just how many drivers forget to switch over from tail lights to headlights when changing ends / taking over a service that someone else has bought in and terminated. In such a situation rather than having 3 bright headlights on the front of the train you now have 2 red tail lights which are not designed to be seen by trackside staff. In such a situation the yellow end provides a valuable backstop.

 

After all we still equip train cabs with detonators - even when GSMR or a track circuit operating clip are the preferred methods of protecting the line in an emergency) and we still place detonator protection at the entrances / exits of possessions - both of which could also be said to be 'last resort' methods of providing staff protection.

 

Nobody is suggesting a yellow end is all you need, nor that it will somehow magically prevent any future near misses / fatalities with trackside staff - rather given its hardly an expensive measure it doesn't hurt to continue with the practice even with the much improved front end lighting, push for more stuff to be done in line blockages, etc

[phil-b259]

There's nothing to stand up to, the TSI doesn't mandate a non-yellow end, it just doesn't require one either (as you'd expect given that yellow ends are used in a minority of countries affected). Whatever the UK authority on these things is has said that a TSI compliant train doesn't need yellow paint.

 

So, in other words there was absolutely no need for the ORR (or whoever) to change the UK domestic rules as regards warning panels and it is perfectly OK to insist they be applied to a TSI compliant train?

 

Yet another example of our stupid Government not paying propper attention to what the EU actually required methinks.