Hornby dublo

[Il Grifone]

The Boy appears to be about to drop the N2 tank. He has a very precarious hold on her....

 

It shows what can be done with just the basic Dublo and a bit of scenery (with a bit of help from Mastermodels!)

[Legend]

Maybe it’s just because it’s coming up to Christmas,a time when traditionally the train set was out in expectation of new additions, but that is certainly a very evocative scene. If only we could recapture the magic and excitement of these Christmas Mornings and pass it onto the new generation .

Edited December 7, 2018 by Legend

[Il Grifone]

Lidl's have a train set for this Christmas. It is yet another variation of GWR no. 101 (LMS this time), but it's a step in the right direction.

 

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/Hornby-train-set-lidl-4999-from-15th-of-november-3099560

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/forum/urban-rambler-set-at-lidl/?p=1/

 

Seeing they have got so much mileage out of her, perhaps Hornby could do a proper version with Joy valve gear. 

She is often referred to as a 'Holden' tank, but he had long left the GWR by the time she was built and her oil burning. which is the tenuous link, had been abandoned in favour of coal in the rebuild portrayed by Hornby.

 

The coal wagon appears to have stepboards. Hornby must have a surplus of brake van underframes to clear out!

 

You also get a blue GWR van lettered LMS.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Il Grifone

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I know it is cost, But you seem to get so little in modern trainsets these days. In the good old days circa mid 60's in the Frieghtmaster trainset or the passenger sets you got a decent number of wagons or coaches. If I remember right it was 8 wagons in the Frieghtmaster and usually 3 coaches in the passenger trainsets. So what is one little tank engine and 2 wagons going to inspire when there is a whole world of adventure out there in Playstations and computers for them to play with immediately at their fingertips. You even used to get cut out tunnels with free tunnel mouths using the box at one time. Even that appears to be gone.

I suppose one problem is where the model railway companies are targeting their products. In the main it is the mature railway modeller, Their engines and wagons and even the track is far more fragile compared to old HD and Triang engines and stock. Plus and I hate to say this they release the same old sets with minimal changes and they have become boring. When I was a kid I played with my railway on my bedroom carpet. Trains fell off and wagons derailed without coming to much harm. Modern stock would more than likely break with the more delicate bits coming away. We need big engines, wagons and coaches with playability in mind to be produced. They do not have to be exact replicas, They just need to look like the real thing. Something like the old Triang Princess engines and the Jinty's. We all came into model railways because we loved trains and had access to trains that looked like the real thing. At 12 years old we did not sit there and go OH NO the number of rivits on the boiler are wrong. We were just happy to have something that looked like the real thing. And with a simpler construction would be much cheaper.

Ok rant over.......

Edited December 7, 2018 by cypherman

[Legend]

^{I agree . You look at what you used to get v what you get now . Even back in the 70s it was a Pannier Tank , 6 wagons a point to do shunting etc . Now all you've got is an  0-4-0 and two wagons that can go round and round one way , then round and round the other .  Compare this to the functionality of an X Box or a tablet and you can see the issue .}

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi all,

I know it is cost, But you seem to get so little in modern trainsets these days. In the good old days circa mid 60's in the Frieghtmaster trainset or the passenger sets you got a decent number of wagons or coaches. If I remember right it was 8 wagons in the Frieghtmaster and usually 3 coaches in the passenger trainsets. So what is one little tank engine and 2 wagons going to inspire when there is a whole world of adventure out there in Playstations and computers for them to play with immediately at their fingertips. You even used to get cut out tunnels with free tunnel mouths using the box at one time. Even that appears to be gone.

I suppose one problem is where the model railway companies are targeting their products. In the main it is the mature railway modeller, Their engines and wagons and even the track is far more fragile compared to old HD and Triang engines and stock. Plus and I hate to say this they release the same old sets with minimal changes and they have become boring. When I was a kid I played with my railway on my bedroom carpet. Trains fell off and wagons derailed without coming to much harm. Modern stock would more than likely break with the more delicate bits coming away. We need big engines, wagons and coaches with playability in mind to be produced. They do not have to be exact replicas, They just need to look like the real thing. Something like the old Triang Princess engines and the Jinty's. We all came into model railways because we loved trains and had access to trains that looked like the real thing. At 12 years old we did not sit there and go OH NO the number of rivits on the boiler are wrong. We were just happy to have something that looked like the real thing. And with a simpler construction would be much cheaper.

Ok rant over.......

I agree with mainly what you say, especially about modern stocks fragility and not for youngsters, but, Hornby Dublo did market their 2-rail 0-6-0 sets and the EMU set with just a circle of track.  A lot of Tri-ang passenger sets only came with two coaches, the first two I can remember having three were the Pullman and initial Lord of the Isles sets.  For a long time afterwards it was still two coaches.  Hornby Dublo only sold their Pullman train with three coaches all the rest just had two, maybe that was to compete with Tri-ang's version?   At least Tri-ang did put some points in odd sets, the Lord of the Isles one getting a full loop, level crossing, signal box and two signals.  Later on this set was marketed with one coach and no track.  I know they once made a set with both passenger and goods in it, possibly two sets but these days children don't have the same interest in railways as we used to, not just xbox etc but railways to most of us are not appealing as they once were.

 

Garry

Edited December 7, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[MikeCW]

The Boy appears to be about to drop the N2 tank. He has a very precarious hold on her....

 

And by some strange distortion of perspective, the 0-6-2T he's holding looks to be an "0" rather than "00" model.

 

Mike

Edited December 7, 2018 by MikeCW

[Il Grifone]

And by some strange distortion of perspective, the 0-6-2T he's holding looks to be an "0" rather than "00" model.

 

Mike

 

Perhaps it's the ACE model? 

 

Several things seem to be the wrong size - the water crane in the front for example. I'm not sure whether it's the result of bad draughtsmanship or bad Photoshop.

 

The overall effect is really impressive however.

 

 

^{I agree . You look at what you used to get v what you get now . Even back in the 70s it was a Pannier Tank , 6 wagons a point to do shunting etc . Now all you've got is an  0-4-0 and two wagons that can go round and round one way , then round and round the other .  Compare this to the functionality of an X Box or a tablet and you can see the issue .}

 

The idea was birthdays, pocket money etc. would add to the layout and provide a continuing source of income for the manufacturer. This worked up to about the sixties or seventies. Now you need more games for your X-Box or even the latest one, because the new games won't play on the old one. The demise of the local toy shop doesn't help. Mine could supply anything from the Dublo or Tri-ang ranges.

 

They were caught between two opposing choices - a large set which was necessarily expensive or a cheaper set which won't do much. Trix left space in the box, "For your second train!" The Tri-ang 'Rich Uncle' set with two trains didn't sell very well. I can remember buying the Tri-ang catalogue every year and envying all the wide range compared to Dublo's rather more meagre offerings. This is not to say I ever acquired any of them, beyond the odd wagon or coach. Even the cheapest locomotive was 36/- (the Jinty - later reduced to 33/11d IIRC) and way beyond pocket money. Not running on 3 rail track didn't help. Hatton's 3 rail conversions were way beyond my means.

[Wolseley]

Perhaps it's the ACE model? 

 

Several things seem to be the wrong size - the water crane in the front for example. I'm not sure whether it's the result of bad draughtsmanship or bad Photoshop.

 

The overall effect is really impressive however.

 

 

Yes, the 0-6-2T is even bigger than the LMS coaches, the Gresley coaches are bigger still, but the Duchess of Montrose looks rather small - and the boy’s hand seems almost as long as his forearm.  Charming though it is, the proportions of the various components of the illustration leave a lot to be desired.

 

Drawn by a committee maybe?

[Golden Fleece 30]

The modern day train set.

 

Garry

[brianusa]

Train sets, no matter the size have always been a little basic, perhaps because of the necessity to include track and transformer, if electric.  Dublo when first introduced had the obligatory two coaches while Hornby O sets had two or three depending on C/W or electric while most smaller sets had a loco and two or three carriages or trucks.  So not a lot to play with, but it was enough to keep the Hornby boy interested until the next birthday or Christmas came around when more trains or accessories would be added  as Frank intended!

 

Brian.

[Nearholmer]

Well, I'm glad to report that I had a seven year old and two six year olds entertained for a good long time this afternoon, with a train-set consisting of nothing more than a loco, two wagons, and a simple figure-8 of track, no X-boxes involved (best skate over what the two eleven year olds were doing!).

 

The simple "secret" is not to give them fiddly little 00, but nice big Playmobil (45mm gauge) to play with, because then they create great scenarios using figures, load and unload the wagons, etc.

 

It was interesting to note that the boy was content to drive the train, and was dead keen to investigate my 0-gauge layout, while it was the two girls who made scenery from shoe boxes and decided the narrative of the story.

 

All is not completely lost!

[NCB]

Yep, in my youth the family investment in OO started with the Dublo LMS 0-6-2T, two wagons (open and van) and brake van. Circle of track plus, I think, a couple of straights. Controller. Can't remember if the transformer was in the box or separate. My brother had that. Was never really interested and I eventually managed to take it over. That was the one and only train set; after that I could get a locomotive as a combined Xmas and birthday present, or the odd coach or wagon, or a bit of track. Hope to get it out again over Xmas to see what's there.

[Il Grifone]

Originally the track in a set was 8 curves and 2 straights, one of which was a terminal rail (an LMS tank probably had this). Some terminal rails have a mica capacitor (condenser it was then - I don't know why as it doesn't condense anything).

 

Later sets had a curved terminal rail in place of the straight one and this was replaced by 2 half straights. One had the roadway insert to encourage the purchase of a level crossing. (Canny folk up in Liverpool!)

 

Controllers were usually included in the set, but transformers were extra. There were two reasons for this. It kept the apparent price down and there were multiple supply voltages to cater for. Some supplies were still DC (needing a rotary converter - and good luck with that!) or batteries, either an accumulator or dry batteries. Three 4.5V bell batteries were specified, which were expensive and didn't last long. For the bell, they would last for ever (or at least until they started leaking), but running trains was a different matter. IIRC 9 hours was quoted. (Maybe if you were lucky!)

 

I remember the transformers had two 1A catridge fuses (one was sufficient, but the practice then was two - interesting if the mains fuse in the neutral phase blew...), which were a shilling each! These shouldn't have blown (the magnetic cut-out should have tripped first), but did. Bodges involving fuse wire were common.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Looking for a photo for David, I came across these of my layout while I was still at school.  The layout as you can see had Tri-ang super 4 track for the main line with Hornby Dublo for the goods yard.  I guess this was because I could not understand the live frog issues with Dublo points at the time.  I had started doing re-paints, some reasonable and some poor.  The blue A4 has had its buffers replaced with sprung ones, thankfully I did not do too many. The A2 is an interloper being a Wills Kit on a Tri-ang chassis (made when I was about 12), the Wills K3 is on a Dublo R1 chassis but minus any valve gear.  The EMU was on a later small layout that had all handbuilt track, it was small for obvious reasons.

 

The Black 5 was a Dublo 8F body (look at the number) with the footplate cut off and glued higher up, it was mounted on a Tri-ang Princess chassis but used the Dublo valve gear which was cut in half and mounted in Plastic Padding to insulate it.  It might not pass certain eyes now but as about a 12 year old I was happy with it.

 

Garry

Edited December 14, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

For some reason I could not edit the previous post to add the following,

 

By 1970 I was working and ventured into Peco and Formoway (Farish) track.  I was never keen on the Formoway as the blades needed a switch to lock them you could not just lay and run like Peco, plus, their slips did not like Tri-ang wheels either.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

I got married in 1976 and within a couple of years had secured a bedroom for my railway and this is what it looked like.  All Peco track now with the odd handbuilt point where required. A mixture now of Dublo, Tri-ang, Trix, Lima, Aifix etc.  The 8F has been attached to a Tri-ang Fowler tender.  Most A4's were Dublo, I never liked the Tri-ang shape (it was Hornby by now but I still call it Tri-ang).  The B1 has been fitted to a Dublo non motorised A4 chassis.  Although my painting improved this was an era of weathering which was not too successful.  The Streamlined Coronation was an Eames nickel kit fitted onto a Dublo chassis.  Coaches were a mixture. These photos show the Dublo connections.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of my (rather more modest) late sixties GWR terminus. It was laid with Formoway apart from one Streamline point to the engine shed* (Airfix of course!). It was then I noticed the difference in scale of what were both supposed to be 00 track. At the time I was using a home brew tension lock made from wire. It was supposed to be delayed action, but that was rather hit and miss. I decided the next layout would be EM, having sent off 6d for a sample of the then new SMP track. This got as far as a single board. I do have some (rather poor) pictures somewhere, if I can find them. Marriage and a new house (they were affordable back then!) gave me a spare room, which was allocated for a railway. but soon filled with junk. Moving to Italy in 1976 meant that once again there was no room for a railway. I later had plans for a Danish layout mainly using Lima's products, but this met a serious snag - Lima's coaches objected to Lima curves** and derailed,  so that didn't get very far either.

 

* Some of the buildings still exist but not this one.

** At 360mm radius who can blame them. The Lima moulding is the standard 1:100 bodge, but Danish coaches (or at least the one portrayed by Lima) were built on the short(er) U.I.C underframe so an alleged first become a 2nd and is only about a centimetre short. Even a 24.6m length prototype is a bit long for those curves. Perhaps I was expecting too much with a reverse curve! (I should have known better!). Finding a book listing Danish Locomotives in a Turin bookshop was a great help. The later edition listed the coaching stock too. The snag is that they are in Danish (obviously!).

 

(I suppose all this now obsolete Lima stock now counts as vintage (hardly collectible). Lima wheels like Dublo track so perhaps I should convert it to 3 rail!)

 

About 1990 Lima upgraded theit rolling stock Unfortunately they also upgraded the price (considerably. Possibly this explains their financial problems not long afterwards c.f. Dublo 30 years earlier? Their rebuilt West Country was very expensive

 

David

Edited December 14, 2018 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

 

 

About 1990 Lima upgraded theit rolling stock Unfortunately they also upgraded the price (considerably. Possibly this explains their financial problems not long afterwards c.f. Dublo 30 years earlier? Their rebuilt West Country was very expensive

 

David

I don't remember ever seeing a Lima West Country loco.  Steam wise I only remember the 4mm(?) tender driven King, Crab and a J50 that did not have a centre crankpin.  In HO I think they made a 4F?

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

My first 2 rail layout was laid with Formoway,I remember p/xing a lot of Dublo 3 rail track at the Southgate Hobbyshop.The layout was based on a layout in the RM in the early 60s called 6x4 and a bit br Prof,C R Tottle,the issue also had an article on building your own locking point motors for Formoway points.Perhaps it’s nostalgia but I lost the magazine so I can’t replace as I don`t know the issue.

 

Ray.

[MikeCW]

I got married in 1976 and within a couple of years had secured a bedroom for my railway and this is what it looked like.  All Peco track now with the odd handbuilt point where required. A mixture now of Dublo, Tri-ang, Trix, Lima, Aifix etc.  The 8F has been attached to a Tri-ang Fowler tender.  Most A4's were Dublo, I never liked the Tri-ang shape (it was Hornby by now but I still call it Tri-ang).  The B1 has been fitted to a Dublo non motorised A4 chassis.  Although my painting improved this was an era of weathering which was not too successful.  The Streamlined Coronation was an Eames nickel kit fitted onto a Dublo chassis.  Coaches were a mixture. These photos show the Dublo connections.

 

Garry

What a great  record you have in those photographs Garry.  Like David I don't have photos of my earlier, much more modest, efforts at creating a model railway, which I now regret. I was given my first 35mm camera (an inexpensive Hong Kong Made job) in about 1960/61, but Kodachrome was expensive for a lad just starting high school.

 

I didn't do much modification of locomotives.  Even second-hand Dublo was pricey so I think my parents would have been dismayed if I'd taken a saw to a locomotive to turn it into something else.

 

Although the Dublo A4 body shape doesn't have that distinctive "hump" on the top of the boiler casing, my recollection of contemporary reviews in the model press is that, on the first Triang version, the shape of the front, when viewed head-on, was all wrong. But I'm no A4 expert. ( I can see the beginning of your collection of a model of every A4 in BR service in the third photograph!)

 

When you reverted to three rail for the layout I've enjoyed seeing on YouTube and this forum, did you undertake a massive three-railing exercise, or was there a sell and re-stock policy for the motive power?

 

I well remember those first articles on weathering which appeared in the model press around that time. It was pre-airbrush days of course, as well as a time when the last few steam engines worked out their last years of life in filthy condition in the North West.  So neither the painting technology of the time, nor peoples' immediate memories, didn't encourage moderation and subtlety in this early weathering era!  Though Silver Fox (?) coming out of the tunnel in the last photo looks just right.

 

On that score, I admire the superb work of many those who model 0n30, 1/48 scale on 16.5mm track, typically US logging and industrial narrow gauge set in the 1920s or 30s. Some of the results are breathtaking. But the weathering of locomotives often goes well beyond what would be expected of hard-working, shoe-string budget operations. Though done with great skill, the result is something which looks as if it's been on the scrap line for years, and dangerously unsafe to steam up.

 

Mike 

Edited December 14, 2018 by MikeCW

[Golden Fleece 30]

What a great  record you have in those photographs Garry.  Like David I don't have photos of my earlier, much more modest, efforts at creating a model railway, which I now regret. I was given my first 35mm camera (an inexpensive Hong Kong Made job) in about 1960/61, but Kodachrome was expensive for a lad just starting high school.

 

I didn't do much modification of locomotives.  Even second-hand Dublo was pricey so I think my parents would have been dismayed if I'd taken a saw to a locomotive to turn it into something else.

 

Although the Dublo A4 body shape doesn't have that distinctive "hump" on the top of the boiler casing, my recollection of contemporary reviews in the model press is that, on the first Triang version, the shape of the front, when viewed head-on, was all wrong. But I'm no A4 expert. ( I can see the beginning of your collection of a model of every A4 in BR service in the third photograph!)

 

When you reverted to three rail for the layout I've enjoyed seeing on YouTube and this forum, did you undertake a massive three-railing exercise, or was there a sell and re-stock policy for the motive power?

 

I well remember those first articles on weathering which appeared in the model press around that time. It was pre-airbrush days of course, as well as a time when the last few steam engines worked out their last years of life in filthy condition in the North West.  So neither the painting technology of the time, nor peoples' immediate memories, didn't encourage moderation and subtlety in this early weathering era!  Though Silver Fox (?) coming out of the tunnel in the last photo looks just right.

 

On that score, I admire the superb work of many those who model 0n30, 1/48 scale on 16.5mm track, typically US logging and industrial narrow gauge set in the 1920s or 30s. Some of the results are breathtaking. But the weathering of locomotives often goes well beyond what would be expected of hard-working, shoe-string budget operations. Though done with great skill, the result is something which looks as if it's been on the scrap line for years, and dangerously unsafe to steam up.

 

Mike 

Thanks Mike,

 

You are correct regarding the Gresley "Hump" missing of a Dublo loco and the model press criticising the Tri-ang (Hornby) models front end.  I never liked it and one article spoke about carving and filling etc to reshape it, needless to say it never worked for me so the idea was scrapped and I sold off all Tri-ang versions I had, which was not many anyway.  The A4 is one of the hardest to do locos as it looks different moving a foot or two away from any vantage point.

 

Regarding the 3-railing, I did still have quite a few items (I had mentioned it to the manager in my local toyshop once about 3-railing my layout around 1985 time) but all Dublo locos except the R1 were built for both 2 or 3-rail so no problem and I tried various methods on Tri-ang locos which worked fine.  Modern Bachmann and Hornby are more difficult but can usually be done somehow.  The Airfix 14xx was quite easy but I never bothered with other Airfix or Lima locos etc.  I think I had one Lima diesel, Deltic, but did not like their mechanisms. 

 

After moving the layout was broken up, sad to say, and a new one started in the loft which was bigger.  I got very few photos of it but here is one before all the tracks were completed.  This had 3 continuous loops and longer platforms but I then went to 0 gauge then N and then live steam before divorce took over.  I always said the trains would last longer and they did. 

 

Once I got here then it was live steam then back to 3 rail and now TT.  I have a few photos still of the others so some memories are still there from everything.

 

Garry

Edited December 14, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Il Grifone]

I don't remember ever seeing a Lima West Country loco.  Steam wise I only remember the 4mm(?) tender driven King, Crab and a J50 that did not have a centre crankpin.  In HO I think they made a 4F?

 

Garry

 Hi Garry,

 

I was referring to the Dublo one as an example of outpricing your market, The Lima coaches went up from around 15.000 lire to 40,000. Much improved but....  15000 lire equates to about £7 at today's exchange (1€ =90p) (thanks to Brexit - it was £5-6 then). Allowing for inflation in the meantime, it's probably double that.

 

There was also a 4575 prairie (too tall) and a 94xx pannier (stretched to fit the J50 chassis). in H0 there was the 4F (00 width). You don't notice the missing crankpins when she's running. I suppose I could fit some but life's too short... (also leave well alone, it works!).

 

I have two of the 4Fs (One is allegedly South African and has a hole for a headlight in the smokebox!) They had a hard life before they came to me and neither works, though one just has the works come adrift in the tender, so there is a possibility of getting her going. The centre wheels of the tender are flangeless and on stub axles to leave room for the Lima pancake motor. Apart from British models they did a wide range of foreign prototypes. I have an Australian C38 Pacific and an Americanised version of their SNCF 141R Mikado (well they were built in North America. But not the tenders - she has the 141R tender and so does the C38). They did a TGV with a lower gear ratio to make it go even faster. The real TGV doesn't have to contend with the full size equivalent of 360mm radius curves (just over 1½ chains).

 

David

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Garry,

 

I was referring to the Dublo one as an example of outpricing your market, The Lima coaches went up from around 15.000 lire to 40,000. Much improved but.... 15000 lire equates to about £7 at today's exchange (1€ =90p) (thanks to Brexit - it was £5-6 then). Allowing for inflation in the meantime, it's probably double that.

 

There was also a 4575 prairie (too tall) and a 94xx pannier (stretched to fit the J50 chassis). in H0 there was the 4F (00 width). You don't notice the missing crankpins when she's running. I suppose I could fit some but life's too short... (also leave well alone, it works!).

 

I have two of the 4Fs (One is allegedly South African and has a hole for a headlight in the smokebox!) They had a hard life before they came to me and neither works, though one just has the works come adrift in the tender, so there is a possibility of getting her going. The centre wheels of the tender are flangeless and on stub axles to leave room for the Lima pancake motor. Apart from British models they did a wide range of foreign prototypes. I have an Australian C38 Pacific and an Americanised version of their SNCF 141R Mikado (well they were built in North America. But not the tenders - she has the 141R tender and so does the C38). They did a TGV with a lower gear ratio to make it go even faster. The real TGV doesn't have to contend with the full size equivalent of 360mm radius curves (just over 1½ chains).

 

David

Hi David,

 

Sorry I misunderstood your comment about the W/C loco.

 

I had forgotten about the 45xx and 94xx but Lima steam did not appeal to me. My next door neighbour bought a King and it just did not do anything for me, partly I guess was my dislike for tender drives and theirs seemed worse than Tri-ang ones.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Mike,

 

My first Dublo was about 1956/7 time when I was 4 or 5 and was Silver King with no tender, 0-6-2 a couple of wagons and coaches along with Wrenn and Dublo track. All second hand from a shop I used many times so my first new item was the tender. After that I think my next new Dublo was 2-rail when sold off after their demise. The shop in York was really quite good and when I started work another was a good source a few hundred yards away. The owner used to put any Dublo to one side until I called in. Going to Leeds, London etc prices there were a lot more but I think that was because they were model shops like Beatties, the shops I used in York sold anything, records, fishing equipment, house ornaments etc.

 

Garry