Hornby dublo

[sagaguy]

Thank you Ray.  12 x 6 seems a nice balance between manageability (building and maintaining it) and useability (enough room to hold a reasonable amount of stock and give one's locomotives a good gallop) - though if locomotives keep arriving at your place with the regularity at which they seem to be coming, I can understand the need for a stock rotation policy!

 

I've occasionally looked at Wrenn Scots and Spamcans, but for me the prices are a bit steep.  It's not a matter of affordability so much as my preference for acquiring battered and near defunct items and bringing them back from the brink.  And while I've sporadically added to my 1950s Hornby Dublo Christmas gift with items from internet auction sites and elsewhere over the intervening years, it's only in the last year or 18 months that I've started on the repair, rebuild, refurbish and modify activity that you, Garry, David and others do so well.

 

(I was probably a bit lazy installing the lifting section, but I get plenty of Phys. Ed. on the end of a chain saw and other machinery on our two acre section.)

 

Mike 

Funnily enough,i`ve searched for Wrenn for restoration but if they are out there,i can`t find them!.I think most of the folk who bought Wrenn looked after them.Many years ago,my wife & me went to Lanzarote & i got chatting to a chap & the subject of model railways came up.He told me that he`d collected the whole range of Wrenn locos but he kept them in their boxes & never ran them.I never saw him again but i had no reason to disbelieve him,Wrenn production had stopped by then.Ths possibly explains why so many mint & nearly mint items come onto the market,certainly with one or two minor blemishes,the models i`ve bought from hattons do appear to have been unrun or very little used.

 

                               Food for thought eh!.Ray.

 

 

 

 

  PS,even Dublo Barnstaples don`t show up in a distressed condition & as for Dorchesters,i steer well clear of.A few hours work on the kitchen table & you could make a very good copy as they have been out of production now for over 50 years & not too many people know what to look for.

Edited November 22, 2018 by sagaguy

[sagaguy]

It`s the same with 3 rail emus,very few around,plenty of 2 rail models which are easy to convert.I do have one genuine 3 rail version which i bought at a Rugby toy fair in 1985.I`ve not seen many since!.

 

                               Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

It`s the same with 3 rail emus,very few around,plenty of 2 rail models which are easy to convert.I do have one genuine 3 rail version which i bought at a Rugby toy fair in 1985.I`ve not seen many since!.

 

                               Ray.

I have a few, one of which came the the rarest of rare items, a plain green end.  I don't mean the ones with a moulded guide line but unpainted of which there are a few around, this one does not have the moulded ridge and is one of only 200 made which were not supposed to have been sold.  This is as the box cover drawing which was done before BR put the yellow panels on but Dublo never changed the box picture just the actual model fronts.  I have no idea how many of the 200 were sold but I only know of 2 in existence, Bob Field has the other and thought he was the only one with one until he saw mine. 

One photo shows the unpainted ones but with the moulded lines for comparison.

 

Another slight rarity is some 3-rail ones had a green trailing end too but most like all 2-rail ones were black.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

I believe that you can now buy 3D printed cab fronts now plus underframe detail from shapeways.

 

                            Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I believe that you can now buy 3D printed cab fronts now plus underframe detail from shapeways.

 

Ray.

Maybe so Ray but they are not originals.

 

Garry

[MikeCW]

Funnily enough,i`ve searched for Wrenn for restoration but if they are out there,i can`t find them!.I think most of the folk who bought Wrenn looked after them.Many years ago,my wife & me went to Lanzarote & i got chatting to a chap & the subject of model railways came up.He told me that he`d collected the whole range of Wrenn locos but he kept them in their boxes & never ran them.I never saw him again but i had no reason to disbelieve him,Wrenn production had stopped by then.Ths possibly explains why so many mint & nearly mint items come onto the market,certainly with one or two minor blemishes,the models i`ve bought from hattons do appear to have been unrun or very little used.

 

                               Food for thought eh!.Ray.

 

 

 

 

  PS,even Dublo Barnstaples don`t show up in a distressed condition & as for Dorchesters,i steer well clear of.A few hours work on the kitchen table & you could make a very good copy as they have been out of production now for over 50 years & not too many people know what to look for.

I think you're right Ray.  By the time Wrenn was producing the former Dublo range, expanded with the Scot and Spamcan,and new colour schemes, the British model railway world was moving either to Triang Hornby at one end of the scale or to white metal and etched brass at the "finescale" end. This meant that Wrenn operated increasingly in a narrow collectors' market - too expensive for the so-called "average enthusiast" (*) and not quite accurate enough for the finescale boys. My guess is that the advent of Airfix and Mainline in 1980(?) or thereabouts cemented them firmly in this position.

 

So most  Wrenn went into boxes on the shelf or in the cupboard and the collectors, or now their families, have pretty high expectations of the prices they will realise when the time comes to dispose of them.  Maybe they are getting the high prices, but I sometimes wonder just how quickly those expensive models advertised by Hattons, JWModels etc. actually move.

 

(*) Remember that Railway Modeller strapline: "For the Average Enthusiast".  It was hardly inspirational or any sort of motivation to do better than average!!

 

Mike

Edited November 24, 2018 by MikeCW

[sagaguy]

The last original cab fronts i got earlier this year cost me £26  each,not cheap.

 

                        Ray.

[sagaguy]

I think you're right Ray.  By the time Wrenn was producing the former Dublo range, expanded with the Scot and Spamcan,and new colour schemes, the British model railway world was moving either to Triang Hornby at one end of the scale or to white metal and etched brass at the "finescale" end. This meant that Wrenn operated increasingly in a narrow collectors' market - too expensive for the so-called "average enthusiast" (*) and not quite accurate enough for the finescale boys. My guess is that the advent of Airfix and Mainline in 1980(?) or thereabouts cemented them firmly in this position.

 

So most  Wrenn went into boxes on the shelf or in the cupboard and the collectors, or now their families, have pretty high expectations of the prices they will realise when the time comes to dispose of them.  Maybe they are getting the high prices, but I sometimes wonder just how quickly those expensive models advertised by Hattons, JWModels etc. actually move.

 

(*) Remember that Railway Modeller byline: "For the Average Enthusiast".  It was hardly inspirational or any sort of motivation to do better than average!!

 

Mike

Well,the spamcans seem to move towards me LOL.When Meccano went bust,the tooling went to the original Dapol company,They advertised the Castle & 8f in the RM but how many were sold,i don`t know or even if they were manufactured.After the big fire at their Wrexham plant,some of the tools appeared under the Wrenn label which at the time was under the wing of Triang Hornby.History doesn`t relate as to what happened to the die cast diesel tools,they may have been destroyed in the fire.

 

                      A tangled web,

 

                               Ray.

[steam69]

Well,the spamcans seem to move towards me LOL.When Meccano went bust,the tooling went to the original Dapol company,They advertised the Castle & 8f in the RM but how many were sold,i don`t know or even if they were manufactured.After the big fire at their Wrexham plant,some of the tools appeared under the Wrenn label which at the time was under the wing of Triang Hornby.History doesn`t relate as to what happened to the die cast diesel tools,they may have been destroyed in the fire.

 

                      A tangled web,

 

                               Ray.

Sorry Ray, this not the sequence of events at all.

When Meccano went bust the tools went to Triang who were approached by George Wrenn who asked if he could produce a small production of the Castle, 8F and 4MT, this was agreed. Much later Dapol to over the Tooling sometime in the 1990s.

As for the missing tools I suspect that many stayed at Margate, indeed the Hornby stations were reissued in new colours to match Triang's own buildings.

 

Richard

Edited November 23, 2018 by steam69

[Golden Fleece 30]

Sorry Ray, this not the sequence of events at all.

When Meccano went bust the tools went to Triang who were approached by George Wrenn who asked if he could produce a small production of the Castle, 8F and 4MT, this was agreed. Much later Dapol to over the Tooling sometime in the 1990s.

As for the missing tools I suspect that many stayed at Margate, indeed the Hornby stations were reissued in new colours to match Triang's own buildings.

 

Richard

Thats correct Richard, the original Wrenn releases were advertised on a single A4 piece of paper and I remember getting the sheet at the Wakefield show about 66 time give or take a year hoping that soon the A4 would follow.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Well,the spamcans seem to move towards me LOL.When Meccano went bust,the tooling went to the original Dapol company,They advertised the Castle & 8f in the RM but how many were sold,i don`t know or even if they were manufactured.After the big fire at their Wrexham plant,some of the tools appeared under the Wrenn label which at the time was under the wing of Triang Hornby.History doesn`t relate as to what happened to the die cast diesel tools,they may have been destroyed in the fire.

 

A tangled web,

 

Ray.

I read that the EMU and SD coaches were to be released, and the coaches at least did appear in a Wrenn catalogue in Blood and Custard livery. The tooling for the 6 wheel stove was supposedly kept by Tri-ang as they did think of producing it but never did.

 

Once Wrenn produced those first 3 locos, Castle, 8F and 2-6-4 all were included into boxed sets as well as individual locos. These sets used new ex stock Hornby Dublo suburbans, Pullmans and wagons. The strange thing being the locos now from Wrenns begining used the Tri-ang coupling but all the stock obviously still had the Dublo couplings meaning you could not actually couple the loco to the stock in the same box. A converter wagon was not included with these. The Castle got Pullmans, the 8F got wagons but the 2-6-4 got 2 SR green suburbans and a few wagons.

 

The converter wagons were only produced by Tri-ang (Tri-ang Hornby as they were now) for sale as a separate item and also given away with the Tri-ang Hornby ex Dublo locos Tri-ang had in stock from the takeover as these still had Dublo couplings fitted. There were 5 such locos and the Dublo boxes got a small Tri-ang Hornby label stuck over the Dublo logo. I think the 5 were Barnstaple, 0-6-2, R1, 08 and Co-Bo. I do know that Barnstaple and the Co-Bo were as I have both with the overlayed sticker.

 

Garry

Edited November 23, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[sagaguy]

I forgot the Co Bo,the catalogue page is in the Dublo book.With todays climate of collectors retro collecting,perhaps Hornby would consider reintroducing a limited run of the Dublo terminal station & loco sheds etc if the tools were still available.Won`t happen but a nice thought though.

 

                             Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here are the early Wrenn sets and these look to have the locos fitted with Dublo style couplings.  Both maroon and green suburbans were used.

 

Note the boxes state "With matching Hornby Dublo rolling stock".

 

Garry

Edited November 23, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[sagaguy]

Wrenn must have made loads of items,there are still new Pullman cars to be had & Wrenngalore seem to have an inexhaustible supply of spare parts & new wagons.I have one of their tank wagons,lovely free running model but somehow lacks the charm of the Dublo die cast & tinplate tankers.I believe Dapol had or have some of the wagon tooling & were still using them!.

 

                    Ray.

Edited November 23, 2018 by sagaguy

[Golden Fleece 30]

Wrenn must have made loads of items,there are still new Pullman cars to be had & Wrenngalore seem to have an inexhaustible supply of spare parts & new wagons.I have one of their tank wagons,lovely free running model but somehow lacks the charm of the Dublo die cast & tinplate tankers.I believe Dapol had or have some of the wagon tooling & were still using them!.

 

                    Ray.

Yes Ray,  Dapol kept some wagon tooling and the Dublo heritage can be found on a few wagons which you can buy unpainted and still fit them on a Dublo wagon chassis.  The new wagons Wrenngalore have can be old stock or they sometimes commission Dapol (or someone else) to do limited runs for them.  Jodel (John Bann) I think have also started doing some wagons with older tooling.  At one time it was reported that Maurice Gunter was looking at selling the tooling/machines but he did write to say that was not correct and he was keeping them.

 

Until recently, maybe still, they had quite a few 8F, Castle and SpamCan chassis blocks, unfettled, for sale as well as a few of the bodies including the Scots.  I did hear they were looking at getting some more bodies diecast but don't know if this happened.  

 

These spare bodies are what Tony Cooper is using for his limited editions having Mick Turner finish them, I know as I did some of the drawings for them to get smoke deflectors, coupling rods etc etched.

 

Garry

Edited November 23, 2018 by Golden Fleece 30

[Il Grifone]

The Spamcan is still available on eBay with a chassis block. I keep meaning to get one.... (A new boiler has delayed this and SWMBO would block it anyway...) Secret piggy bank?

 I have plenty of driving wheels and a pony truck. My 'Barnstable' (one that had been got at - I managed to convince SWMBO that she was a 'must have'!) has a replacement Wrenn tender body, so i could refurbish the original (or there's always the Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol one - Tri-ang's is the wrong profile).

I understand the locomotive chassis is the same as Wrenn's A4. If this the case and does a Dublo one fit?

[Golden Fleece 30]

The Spamcan is still available on eBay with a chassis block. I keep meaning to get one.... (A new boiler has delayed this and SWMBO would block it anyway...) Secret piggy bank?

 I have plenty of driving wheels and a pony truck. My 'Barnstable' (one that had been got at - I managed to convince SWMBO that she was a 'must have'!) has a replacement Wrenn tender body, so i could refurbish the original (or there's always the Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol one - Tri-ang's is the wrong profile).

I understand the locomotive chassis is the same as Wrenn's A4. If this the case and does a Dublo one fit?

Hi David, Wrenn's A4 is what was used in their City/Duchess but that was all.  The Spam can is a completely new chassis developed by Wrenn.  It is I think the same as the Scot though.  The chassis only has a hole for the rear axle that holds the gear wheel, the front two are just slotted with the axles held in by a pick-up plate, same as Tri-ang TT.  Also there is no provision for 3-rail pick-ups so this needs to be your own design.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Hi Garry,

 

Thanks for the information. I could try for just a body and do some carving. The pickups could go under the tender where they are out of the way. I missed out on a 'Scot' body some years ago. It was only £12.50 and I stupidly let it go!   I do have a rather beat up Wills Kit that I acquired for a couple of quid, but it is bent (badly) and incomplete. It was designed for the Tri-ang Princess/Britannia chassis I believe. It could have the one I was going to fit my Trix 'Princess' to. It won't fit now due to warping of the alloy.

 

Too many projects! I have a chassis in the post for my Hornby E2. I finally found a body not long ago (unpainted she must have been a factory clear out?). She has been sharing the chassis with my J52, but now will have her own. I have still to decide whether it's worth the trouble to shift the centre axle back 1mm to correct the wheelbase.

 

David

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi Garry,

 

Thanks for the information. I could try for just a body and do some carving. The pickups could go under the tender where they are out of the way. I missed out on a 'Scot' body some years ago. It was only £12.50 and I stupidly let it go!   I do have a rather beat up Wills Kit that I acquired for a couple of quid, but it is bent (badly) and incomplete. It was designed for the Tri-ang Princess/Britannia chassis I believe. It could have the one I was going to fit my Trix 'Princess' to. It won't fit now due to warping of the alloy.

 

Too many projects! I have a chassis in the post for my Hornby E2. I finally found a body not long ago (unpainted she must have been a factory clear out?). She has been sharing the chassis with my J52, but now will have her own. I have still to decide whether it's worth the trouble to shift the centre axle back 1mm to correct the wheelbase.

 

David

Hi David,

 

The Wills kit was designed for the Tri-ang A3 chassis with completely wrong valve gear. 

 

I did convert a Dublo A4 chassis to fit a Wrenn Spam Can body fitting it with Boxpok wheels from a Barnstaple which no doubt you will be able to spot which of the 2 locos here it was.

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

I looked into a body &chassis from Wrenn but it’s not a cheap option.As Garry says,it’s a chassis that’s designed for that loco.The armature shaft gear is in front of the worm wheel as opposed to behind it as normal.The body has a back head which precludes other chassis.I have only seen one correct chassis for sale & that was nearly £200.You would have to buy smoke deflectors,you couldn’t use a Barnstaple chassis because it’s the wrong motor & without machining,you haven’t got the clearance for Dublo collector assembly.All in all,not really a viable option.

 

Ray.

[Il Grifone]

I checked and the current offer is a body and block together for £40. You are given the possibility of making an offer! The blinkers (etched) are £10 and the tender parts are also available, as are bogie and pony truck. There is even a set of armature bearings on offer. No armatures though!

[sagaguy]

The problem is that it`s an unfettled body &chassis casting.If you have drilling & tapping & machining equipment ,it`s still a pain in the proverbial.Mazak eats taps & drills.I have all these facilities & believe me,i baulked at this when i added up the parts list.My Golden Arrow Fighter Pilot turned up today & although it cost me 300 notes,it was still a more viable option.

 

 

                           Ray.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Well I have just received my new Bristol Castle body today to replace one that was damaged. In near mint condition and at a great price. Only £7.50 + p+p from that well known site. It is not perfect but the paint wear is barely noticeable on the side of the footplate. I bought a new body rather than repair the damaged paint on my old body because for some reason I just could not get the enthusiasm to do another repaint on an engine.....

[Dava]

The Friends of the Great Central Main Line has been kindly donated a collection of Hornby Dublo three-rail which could form a dream 1950s HD train set. I am sorting, cleaning and preparing it for sale, ideally as 1 lot, in due course. There are a lot of individually wrapped wagons!

 

Two of the locos, a GWR N2 0-6-2T and a BR Bristol Castle, emit a screech from the gears at intervals. The N2 has been cleaned internally and the gears lightly lubed. Otherwise it runs fine.

 

Can anyone advise what causes the screech and how to prevent it?

 

Thanks,

 

Dava

[Il Grifone]

The Friends of the Great Central Main Line has been kindly donated a collection of Hornby Dublo three-rail which could form a dream 1950s HD train set. I am sorting, cleaning and preparing it for sale, ideally as 1 lot, in due course. There are a lot of individually wrapped wagons!

 

Two of the locos, a GWR N2 0-6-2T and a BR Bristol Castle, emit a screech from the gears at intervals. The N2 has been cleaned internally and the gears lightly lubed. Otherwise it runs fine.

 

Can anyone advise what causes the screech and how to prevent it?

 

Thanks,

 

Dava

 

I think it's wear in the bearings, causing the gears to mesh badly. A spot of grease - Lithium (the white stuff) or molybdenum (as used in cars) - might help. A GWR N2 is quite rare and valuable* in good condition (collectors won't worry too much about a bit of noise, as they won't ever run her). Bristol Castles are quite common on the other hand. The same motor was used in the 8F and the R1 and a swop might cure the problem. There's a video on Youtube somewhere about this, but oiling the poor things didn't seem to be considered.

 

It is less hassle in one lot, but several lots will probably make more money. A large price will put many people off.

 

* On a good day, £200-300, possibly more with a box. Pre-war even more assuming she dpesn't suffer from zinc pest.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Il Grifone