German or Austrian Rack Railways

[Vecchio]

… making my potential 7 degree slope angle almost 11% ...

 

This sounds like spinning wheels to me. Best to make your incline test board to see what is possible...

[Memphis32]

Degrees is not the conventional unit for gradient...

[Joseph_Pestell]

Alan,

 

There was a very important standard gauge rack railway in Austria, it went over the Praebichl pass and connected Leoben with the Enns valley. So why a normal gauge rack railway crossing the alps? The answer is iron ore. The Styrian Erzberg (ore mountain) was the main source for the steel industry in Austria before ore from Latin America and Swedish Kiruna was a cheaper source. The Erzberg is a huge mine, the ore was both mined underground and as open pit on the surface. And believe it or not - it is the largest open pit mine in Europe. The ore is mainly the iron mineral siderite (FeCO₃), which is mixed with ankerite (CaFe[CO₃]₂) and dolomite (CaMg[CO₃]₂). The average iron content is 33%. The calcium and magnesium content was a life saver for the mine, as this is used as an additive together with the much higher iron content ores from Sweden or South America. So the mine is still working, Annual production approximately 2 million ton of enriched iron ore (out of 7 million tons of excavated material). Enough about mining. Let's look at the trains:

 

Austria had in the past 2 important iron production sites, one in Leoben (Styria) and one in Linz (Upper Austria) To get the ore to the smelters in Leoben the trains had to go over the Praebichl pass, which is 1024m above sea level. A normal gauge rack railway was built to do this job. It is not very steep, just 7%, but with the heavy ore trains this needs some traction power. For my knowledge the steam engines serving the pass were the strongest rack rail engines ever built. I think one of them is on display in the city of Eisenerz.

 

Just for information: The other smelter (Voest Alpine Linz) is reached by a line through the Enns valley. A very interesting line with  lots of tunnels and bridges. Here the ore trains are still running. Less then it was 50 years ago, but if you look at the quantities of ore mined you still need a few trains... 

 

If one of our readers is in the area it is worth a visit. There are some converted mining trucks (those with the 3m diameter tyres...) which are used for a tour on the mountain. Of course you are only going into areas which are no longer mined but it is still impressive. Especially the breaker, crushing the ore into smaller sizes.  There is also a guided tour into the mountain, you go in with a 700mm electric train. They stopped mining in there at the end of the seventies, and some of the mining machines are still there and can be visited. There is of course also the history and the old equipment shown.

 

Also the trains are still running over the pass, but as a museum train for tourists. There are only DMU's, and not using the rack rails but adhesion.

 

There is some material on Wikipedia, it is in German, but a few pictures may tell you something.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzbergbahn

 

I have heard some rumors that Roco will produce the Erzberg 297 rack railway locomotive in H0, but this was a few years ago and I didn't hear anything after that.

 

Uups - found it. But not from Roco. Micro Metakit Class 297.401 Adhesion/Rack Loco, Black/Red Livery, Giesl Smoke Stack   

Lets see if this link works:

                             

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1024&bih=673&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=2ct7W42pJ8HOwQKmx5yACA&q=erzbergbahn+lokomotive&oq=erzbergbahn+lokomotive&gs_l=img.3...682324.689220.0.690175.22.18.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c.1.64.img..22.0.0....0.buMMB6o-ifM#imgdii=-5IgC_IzUYt5IM:&imgrc=r67Gg4V90xE-QM:&spf=1534840460614

 

That's the line that I travelled on in 1975. Uerdingen railcars for the passengers and rack for the iron ore trains (with 2-10-2 and 2-12-2 tank locos). If I can work out how to get my slide copier to work, I'll post some pics. It was one of the highlights of our month-long tour of Europe.

[duff man]

Hi  Vecchio.

Thanks for that link,

some fantastic photo's.

Craig.

[Andy Hayter]

Loco hauled. Is Chamonix not rack?

 

Loco hauled?  Well that is a new requirement, but as built kinda loco hauled - which I will explain later.

 

Chamonix does have a rack railway from Chamonix to the Mer de Glace glacier.  The adhesion line however starts in St Gervais - end on junction with the standard gauge SNCF network - runs through Chamonix to Chatelard just beyond where there is an end on junction with the Swiss metre gauge line going down to Martigny.  Today there are through trains using EMU two car units.

 

There is yet another metre gauge line stating in St Gervais and ending up half way up Mont Blanc ending today where it reached in August 1914 and this is also rack assisted.

 

Anyway back to the adhesion line:  AS built there were electric locomotives -  with guards/package space.  However to confuse things almost every item of stock (coaches open wagons and vans) were also fitted with motors, so a train c/would be loco hauled but also have on board power as well

 

http://wikiplm.railsdautrefois.fr/wikiPLM/index.php?title=Mat%C3%A9riel_%C3%A0_voie_m%C3%A9trique_de_la_ligne_du_Fayet_%C3%A0_Chamonix_et_Vallorcine

[Mike at C&M]

 Erzberg 297 rack railway locomotive

Now this would be a locomotive I would have on my Austrian layout!

 

[Vecchio]

Lovely. But was only available as a brass version for more than 2000€....

Need to save money for my stay permit...

And on top of the price it is sold out. I will use the latter as an official excuse not to have one.

[TT-Pete]

I think I'll set up a narrow board with some track pinned on and do some adhesion testing on varied slopes …

 

Cheers … Alan

 

All this talk of % gradients confuses me!  I was looking at packs of Woodland Scenics polystyrene risers in a model shop the other day and couldn't work them out either. As I'd understood it from reading posts elsewhere on this forum, a gradient of between 1 in 30 and 1 in 40 is broadly speaking the ideal gradient for a model railway and easy for me to understand as it goes up 1 for every 30 or 40 it goes along. So, if I want a rise of 5cm in height then I need a length of between 150cm and 200cm to achieve it. How does that equate to % gradient? (Bearing in mind that it took me 2 attempts to get grade "C" at CSE maths...)

 

Peter

[Alan Kettlewell]

Hi Peter,

 

I too used the ratio method 1 in xxx when I worked out the gradients on the helices on my layout, also as seen all over the railways of Britain on the gradient boards. 

 

For interest:

Percent slope is calculated: Rise/Length then x 100. 

To express as a ration 1 in xxx, then it's simply Length divided by Rise. 

 

eg For a slope where Length is 200cm and Rise is 25cm then:

Percent method:  (25/200) = 0.125, x 100 = 12.5%.  

Ratio: 200cm / 25cm rise = 1 in 8.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers … Alan

Edited August 24, 2018 by Alan Kettlewell

[Alan Kettlewell]

Gradient Tests

 

For interest I carried out a series of simple tests using some Peco HO 100 track pinned to a length of timber 125cm long.  The tests were carried out using 4 different HO locos pushing two small 4 wheel coaches - which all I would use on the planned mountain railway.

 
I propped one end of the board up on a stack of timber pieces, successively raising the slope in 2cm increments. 

 

The Locos used were:
0-6-0 Diesel V60, 2-6-0 K Bay Tender loco , Bo-Bo Diesel Shunter DB V90, Bo-Bo Electric Loco DB Class 141.

 

All four locos ascended without slip or struggle until I got to 14 cm high.  These are the results of the last two tests:

 

1:  Rise of 12cm
Percent slope = 12/125 x 100 = 0.096 x 100 = 9.67%
Ratio 125/12 = 1 in 10.4

 

Results: All four locos ascended without wheel slip

 

2:  Rise of 14cm
Percent slope = 14/125 x 100 = 0.112 x 100 = 11.2%
Ratio 125/14 = 1 in 8.9

 

Results:  The 0-6-0 Diesel and 2-6-0 tender loco failed with wheel slip, the other two climbed effortlessly.

 

I didn't see the need to go higher as I wouldn't build a track any steeper than 10% on the layout without planning on cog locos.  Also for aesthetic reasons I think this would look quite steep enough.

 

I can't say how HOm locos might perform as I don't have any to test but for my layout where I know the limitations of the space available,  I'd probably plan for a cog railway should I decide to make my mountain railway in HOm or in HO.  I'm sure it would just look more authentic even if the locos would climb using adhesion only.

 

However, It was quite surprising how well these test loco performed with adhesion only.

 

Cheers  ... Alan

 

[Alan Kettlewell]

Hi Peter,

 

I too used the ratio method 1 in xxx when I worked out the gradients on the helices on my layout, also as seen all over the railways of Britain on the gradient boards. 

 

For interest:

Percent slope is calculated: Rise/Length then x 100. 

To express as a ration 1 in xxx, then it's simply Length divided by Rise. 

 

eg For a slope where Length is 200cm and Rise is 25cm then:

Percent method:  (25/200) = 0.125, x 100 = 12.5%.  

Ratio: 200cm / 25cm rise = 1 in 8.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers … Alan

 

Peter,

 

You might spot from the two results in my example above that you can work out the ratio from a percent gradient easily.  So if you see a percent gradient of say 12.5%, then divide that into 100.  ie 100/12.5 = 8, so your ration there is 1 in 8.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Cheers … Alan

[Andy Hayter]

Alan your tests are very interesting, but do be aware that as soon as you introduce curves on an incline you are likely to see a fall off in ability to climb.

I think this is because more of the effort is being placed on the loco wheel set on the inside of the curve - unless someone has a better explanation.

[Alan Kettlewell]

Alan your tests are very interesting, but do be aware that as soon as you introduce curves on an incline you are likely to see a fall off in ability to climb.

I think this is because more of the effort is being placed on the loco wheel set on the inside of the curve - unless someone has a better explanation.

 

I know, thanks Andy.  I had to work through all of that when building my helices but worth mentioning anyway.

 

Cheers … Alan 

[009 micro modeller]

Peter,

 

You might spot from the two results in my example above that you can work out the ratio from a percent gradient easily. So if you see a percent gradient of say 12.5%, then divide that into 100. ie 100/12.5 = 8, so your ration there is 1 in 8.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Cheers … Alan

Or you could just calculate dy/dx which gives you a number.

[Alan Kettlewell]

Or you could just calculate dy/dx which gives you a number.

 

I was thinking where you see a gradient expressed as a percentage - ie where you might not know the length and rise - and you want to know what that is as a ratio. 

[TT-Pete]

I was thinking where you see a gradient expressed as a percentage - ie where you might not know the length and rise - and you want to know what that is as a ratio. 

 

Oh dear, I've had a couple of stiff Bourbon & Cokes since getting in from work (it is a bank holiday weekend you know) and before reading all these updates, I'm trying to work out the gradients for the layout I'm planning so I think I'll sleep on it and then refer back and get the calculator out in the morning when the fog has lifted. In the meantime; cheers!    

 

Peter

[Andy Hayter]

Oh dear, I've had a couple of stiff Bourbon & Cokes since getting in from work 

Peter

 

You  dip chocolate biscuits in Cola!!

[TT-Pete]

You  dip chocolate biscuits in Cola!!

 

Yesh, thash right, oshifer,

 

"Have we been drinking, Sir?"

 

I've never seen you before in my life, oshifer!

[DIW]

Hello, I spotted this thread a week ago, but was on holiday so unable to put together a search for the information linked to below.
 
There was a thread a few years ago which discussed rack railway modelling; although started in the Swiss Railway section it is equally applicable to other parts of the world because the discussion ranged widely across the topic.
 
For your particular enquiry in the OP about modelling a standard gauge rack railway, then if you want to do this in HO then I would direct you to page 5 of the thread linked above, where there are pictures of a modified Hornby bogie used in a motorcoach on the Fleischmann rack system.
hope this helps,
 
Dave

[Alan Kettlewell]

Hello, I spotted this thread a week ago, but was on holiday so unable to put together a search for the information linked to below.

 

There was a thread a few years ago which discussed rack railway modelling; although started in the Swiss Railway section it is equally applicable to other parts of the world because the discussion ranged widely across the topic.

 

For your particular enquiry in the OP about modelling a standard gauge rack railway, then if you want to do this in HO then I would direct you to page 5 of the thread linked above, where there are pictures of a modified Hornby bogie used in a motorcoach on the Fleischmann rack system.

hope this helps,

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

Many thanks for that - it was a very informative read at first glance, I'll read it all again and absorb a bit more.  Great that so much info on the subject is all together in one place.

 

Thanks again.

 

Cheers … Alan

[009 micro modeller]

The Snowdon model on here a while ago ( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88106-snowdon-mountain-railway-009/ ) was 009 but instead of using a commercial rack system used a DCC concepts powerbase with cosmetic rack. I wonder if he did any more with it?