Kitmaster European coaches

[TonyK]

Hi all

 

I have recently come by the kitmaster German 2nd class coach (3off) and the French 1st class coach (2off).

 

The question is has there ever been available suitable coaches to make reasonable rakes, say 5 or 6 matching coaches, at a similar level of detail and at budget prices.

 

These are well away from my normal areas of interest and I would like to have them as just "fun" trains for a bit of light relief. Also what would be a suitable loco for each of these trains.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Tony K

[Steamport Southport]

Here's the Kitmaster collectors website. Loads of interesting information on there.

 

http://www.kitmaster.org.uk/Index.htm

 

 

I believe they were meant to go with the French and German locomotives in their range. It's well out of my sphere of interest though.

 

http://www.kitmaster.org.uk/Locomotives.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[Andy Hayter]

For the French stainless steel coaches, they sometimes ran in rakes with CIWL coaches (and the 241P kit from Kitmaster).

 

Revell produced some CIWL kits around the 1980s/90s.  A sleeper, a saloon for sure and possibly a restaurant car.  Good luck in trying to find one though - hen's teeth seem to be more common and even finding pictures on the web is a challenge.  A challenge that I have failed.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Andy Hayter

[sncf231e]

For the French stainless steel coaches, they sometimes ran in rakes with CIWL coaches (and the 241P kit from Kitmaster).

 

Revell produced some CIWL kits around the 1980s/90s.  A sleeper, a saloon for sure and possibly a restaurant car.  Good luck in trying to find one though - hen's teeth seem to be more common and even finding pictures on the web is a challenge.  A challenge that I have failed.

 

The stainless steel coaches indeed ran with a CIWL restaurant and Pullman car with a 241P; this was the Mistral day-train from Paris to the Cote dÁzur. The Kitmaster stainless steel coach would be a nice combination with the Revell coaches, I think. The should however have the Mistral lettering like this LS Models version:

 

Revell made a restaurant car and a Pullman (saloon) car, not a sleeper. The restaurant car kit includes interior and CIWL decals. The original CIWL number on the decals is 2975. This number is also used by Jouef for their restaurant car. This Revell kit and the Jouef WR seems to be based on the same moulds.

 

 

Regards

Fred

 

 

[Il Grifone]

The Kitmaster locomotives (241P and Br23) are 00 scale and the coaches H0, so really are only compatible in gauge.

 

All come in the 'collectible' category and command silly prices. Unfortunately new matching Continental stock also tends to also be expensive. The earlier products of Lima and Jouef might be found matching the 'budget prices" criterion. Lima coaches usually follow the 1:100 length common then.

[sncf231e]

I never could compare a Kitmaster 241P on scale but the stainless steel coaches (which is where this thread started) are a good match for other makes of continental coaches as can be seen in the pictures comparing a stainless steel Kitmaster coach with an LS models version:

 

 

 

And a Jouef older 241P can be had for a budget price.

 

For pictures of a correctly scaled H0 gauge Mistral (with correctly scaled 241P) see my e-book on luxury train section 4.2: http://sncf231e.nl/non-ciwl-luxury-trainssmall-2/

 

Regards

Fred

[TonyK]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Firstly for the German train it seems that Fleischmann and Roco have or still produce these coaches. The pictures of these show the Roco coaches in what appears to be older boxes which may be available relatively cheaply. I have also seen another manufacturer has produced these, it may be Bemo or Brawa? But these are beautifully detailed and expensive which is probably overkill for my needs.

 

It apears that I need a 2nd/baggage and a 1st/2nd to complete the rake. Would the baggage be at one end out of the way and would the compo be near the middle to line up with the station buildings on the through stations? A suitable loco may be the german "warship" v200? Class or the 218 series in wine red maybe.

 

Further thought needs to be given to the French train but I like the idea of one of their B_B diesels (like the one Playcraft made when I was a kid but with a better drive).

 

Thanks again

TonyK

[sncf231e]

You could also add one or two 3-axle cars (Umbauwagen 3yg) to a train with 4-axle cars. The different makes (in all scales) can be found here:

http://www.modellbau-wiki.de/wiki/Umbauwagen_(dreiachsig) for 3-axle and

http://www.modellbau-wiki.de/wiki/Umbauwagen_(vierachsig) for 4-axle cars.

 

Indeed the baggage-end should be at the beginning or end of the train and the first class somewhere in the middle.

 

In this video (my brothers trains on my track) you see these cars with a couple of different matching locomotives: https://youtu.be/m48n0QE5BBk.

 

Regards

Fred

[northolland]

The 3-axle cars were normally used in pairs. You can combine an AB with a B, a BD with a B, or two Bs. AB is a 1st/2nd class. B is a 2nd class, and BD is a second glass with baggage section.

[roythebus]

The Kitmaster German coaches are remarkably accurate for their era. I've compared them with the Roco model of the same coach of which I have several, and dimensionally they're almost spot on. Just the detail on the Roco coaches are a bit more detailed. I'd suggest the same for the French coaches.

 

The bogie coaches were originally built as 4 or 6 wheelers and rebuilt to bogie coaches, hence the name "umbauwaggon", rebuilt wagon!

[TonyA]

The bogie coaches were originally built as 4 or 6 wheelers and rebuilt to bogie coaches, hence the name "umbauwaggon", rebuilt wagon!

 

Only the chassis of the pre-war coaches were used for the Umbauwagen with a specially designed standard body being fitted. The 6-wheelers were produced first from old 4 and 6-wheel chassis, being rebuilt to an approximately standard length and with the addition of an extra axle to the 4-wheel chassis. After the initial success, bogie coaches were then produced using old bogie chassis rebuilt to a standard length. No parts of the original bodies were used.

 

Somewhere in the piles of paper at home, I have a copy of the original design specification for the 6-wheelers that the Nürnberg Transport Museum sent to me in the early 1980s. However, I need to do a major clear out before I can find it.

 

Tony

[Sandhole]

I don't set myself as an expert.

I'm running a set of Inox, Stainless coaches made up of Kitmaster and Joueff examples. The Joueffs are the later scale length coaches.

As I remember SNCF in the late 80s and early 90s when I did railtours with the excellent Enfield Expeditions, Inox coaches were in the secondary train rosters. You found odd ones in sets.

If you wanted to travel in faded glory, you could travel to Belgium in a complete TEE/Mistral set hauled by one of the magnificent 4Voltage electrics.

I forget my Paris stations, but I think this went from Gare D'Lest.

Unfortunately I never got to do it.

I did do Turbo Train from Calais Hoverport to Gare Du Nord though!!

                                                                        Chris.

[Andy Hayter]

Gare du Nord was/is the starting point for the Belgian services.

Gare de l'Est serves the route to Southern Germany and Northern Switzerland

[Sandhole]

Gare du Nord was/is the starting point for the Belgian services.

Gare de l'Est serves the route to Southern Germany and Northern Switzerland

Thank you, its been a long time and I always get 'em mixed up!!

                                                                                C.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I don't set myself as an expert.

I'm running a set of Inox, Stainless coaches made up of Kitmaster and Joueff examples. The Joueffs are the later scale length coaches.

As I remember SNCF in the late 80s and early 90s when I did railtours with the excellent Enfield Expeditions, Inox coaches were in the secondary train rosters. You found odd ones in sets.

If you wanted to travel in faded glory, you could travel to Belgium in a complete TEE/Mistral set hauled by one of the magnificent 4Voltage electrics.

I forget my Paris stations, but I think this went from Gare D'Lest.

Unfortunately I never got to do it.

I did do Turbo Train from Calais Hoverport to Gare Du Nord though!!

                                                                        Chris.

 

SNCF DEV coaches came in two lengths, whether conventional steel or the stainless steel variants.

 

If the OP wants something that is of a similar level of detail to the Kitmasters, the old Jouef DEV Inox might be a better match than the newer ex-Rivarossi model.

[TonyK]

Thank-you to everyone for your replies and the information supplied.

 

At the moment most of my mainstream stuff is packed away as we are hoping to move soon but the German kitmaster are still out so I have still got something to play with. I have not been able to find any other models at exhibitions or on eBay that match my budget so I have probably decided on a different tack.

 

I maybe be condemned for sacralige but if I can find some decent side on photos then it may be possible to kitbash the other types from the Kitmaster kits. As it looks easier I planning to start with the composite and keep looking for one more German kit and the older Jouef coaches and Revell kits for the French train.

 

If people are interested I will report progress here but it will be slow because my workrate is not rapid and with a house move in progress I'm sure the boss will keep me distracted.

 

Thanks again for the interest shown

TonyK