Train derailment closes line between Aberdeen and Dundee

[Silver Sidelines]

Not sure where to post this thread.  It looks very like a toy trainset.  Do they need better point motors to lock the blades inplace or perhaps they just need to use a CD unit.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Silver Sidelines

[Wickham Green]

Not sure where to post this thread.  It looks very like a toy trainset.  Do they need better point motors to lock the blades inplace or perhaps they just need to use a CD unit.

 

Greedy driver wanted to be on both tracks at once .................................... but it's a good job there was nothing coming the other way.

[Silver Sidelines]

The BBC news details the train as not carrying passengers.  Might speed be a factor?

 

Greedy driver wanted to be on both tracks at once .................................... but it's a good job there was nothing coming the other way.

 

Ray

[bimble]

The BBC news details the train as not carrying passengers.  Might speed be a factor?

 

 

Ray

 

the points that presumably have caused the issue aren't even 50m from the end of the platform, which the unit has stopped short of... 

[Bon Accord]

The unit had just worked an Aberdeen-Stonehaven service and having disgorged passengers then utilised the trailing crossover at the south end of the station to regain the down line prior to working back to Aberdeen. As can be seen from the photographs it didn't quite make it.

Being a trailing crossover there are no facing point locks and all points/signals (discs) are of the manual variety, operated from Stonehaven 'box which is at the north end of the station.

[Bon Accord]

The location in question, looking south towards the scene of the incident.

 

[russ p]

I saw an email relating to this incident which happened last night.

It said no recovery was to take place until it go light as RAIB were not attending until then!

What has the railway come to???.

It used to be get the job running as quickly as possible

[Oldddudders]

I saw an email relating to this incident which happened last night.

It said no recovery was to take place until it go light as RAIB were not attending until then!

What has the railway come to???.

It used to be get the job running as quickly as possible

When it was all one railway, any disputes over blame were sorted out among chiefs. Now monies are no doubt payable by the guilty, and RAIB is seen as an independent arbiter of the facts. Shambolic.

[PaulRhB]

Could be the bogie itself or the points. Until the downloads are done of the signalling and train and the rails examined that won't be clear. I can think of at least two possible ways it could happen.

Wait for the report by subscribing to the RAIB site.

[Ken.W]

I saw an email relating to this incident which happened last night.

It said no recovery was to take place until it go light as RAIB were not attending until then!

What has the railway come to???.

It used to be get the job running as quickly as possible

 

When it was all one railway, any disputes over blame were sorted out among chiefs. Now monies are no doubt payable by the guilty, and RAIB is seen as an independent arbiter of the facts. Shambolic.

 

Meanwhile....

1E30 Aberdeen - Leeds was started from Ednburgh, with passengers from the north bussed there...

Except, the first bus, I think, made it, as we were given a max wait of 30 mins. due to a possession at Northtallerton...

what happened to the other passengers?

.... well, thats the (21.00) last train south from Edinburgh...

[turbos]

Not sure where to post this thread. It looks very like a toy trainset. Do they need better point motors to lock the blades inplace or perhaps they just need to use a CD unit.

 

The picture only tells so much, the leading bogie under the visible cab is the only one on the correct line. The other other bogies are all ‘wrong line’ and every coach has a derailed bogie. Quite a challenge for the re-railing team!

[hexagon789]

Could be the bogie itself or the points. Until the downloads are done of the signalling and train and the rails examined that won't be clear. I can think of at least two possible ways it could happen.

Wait for the report by subscribing to the RAIB site.

I was informed that the points split under the train as it was shunting from one line to the next by someone 'in the know'. I appreciate that could be simply their opinion rather than hard fact, but it seems a reasonable explation at least.

 

As you say, the RAIL report will reveal all.

[phil-b259]

 

what happened to the other passengers?

 

 

Either

 

(i) Railway paid for taxi back to their starting station + ticket refund if they chose not to travel.

(ii) Railway paid for taxi to their destination + compensation for the delay.

(iii) Put up in a hotel for the night and tickets for travel the next day provided.

 

While obviously TOCs do have a 'force majeure' type clause in the obligation to get you between the stations mentioned on the ticket, I don't think that applies here*.

 

 

* as opposed to a situation where the met office say things such as 'storm xxx is due and don't travel'

[phil-b259]

The unit had just worked an Aberdeen-Stonehaven service and having disgorged passengers then utilised the trailing crossover at the south end of the station to regain the down line prior to working back to Aberdeen. As can be seen from the photographs it didn't quite make it.

Being a trailing crossover there are no facing point locks and all points/signals (discs) are of the manual variety, operated from Stonehaven 'box which is at the north end of the station.

 

Any track circuits?

[beast66606]

There's mention on a prototype forum about this, mention has been made that the signal was not necessarily clear before the move started.

[eastwestdivide]

When it was all one railway, any disputes over blame were sorted out among chiefs. Now monies are no doubt payable by the guilty, and RAIB is seen as an independent arbiter of the facts. Shambolic.

To put the other side of the coin, if you want to prevent similar things happening again, someone who is qualified and independent needs to investigate before the local "chiefs" can sweep it under the carpet. 

I'm not sure there's a solution that both provides a proper investigation and also minimises disruption.

[Dunsignalling]

I saw an email relating to this incident which happened last night.

It said no recovery was to take place until it go light as RAIB were not attending until then!

What has the railway come to???.

It used to be get the job running as quickly as possible

Not much different to the road system, where lanes, or whole sections nowadays remain closed for several hours whilst cause/blame gets apportioned, even in the case of single-vehicle incidents.

 

John

Edited October 12, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Oldddudders]

To put the other side of the coin, if you want to prevent similar things happening again, someone who is qualified and independent needs to investigate before the local "chiefs" can sweep it under the carpet. 

I'm not sure there's a solution that both provides a proper investigation and also minimises disruption.

The mechanisms for such events in BR days effectively precluded any such sweeping if a running line had been blocked. Once Control was advised the balloon went up and people descended at all hours to investigate and clear the line pronto. Where there was room for doubt as to the cause, a Joint Enquiry would be convened, with witnesses questioned by senior managers. In another place on the Internet this morning I was reminded that even major tragic accidents like Clapham were cleared and trains running in far shorter timescales than present arrangements seem to permit. The customer was, is and always will be king. Not the Finance Director!

[Bon Accord]

Any track circuits?

I don't know for sure in this case, but there certainly are some crossovers up here without them.

[Wickham Green]

There's mention on a prototype forum about this, mention has been made that the signal was not necessarily clear before the move started.

..... but the leading bogie being where it should be suggests that the pointwork was correctly set when the move started ............ could the bobby have had second thoughts and reset the road under the train ? .................... yep, we'll have to wait an' see !

[beast66606]

..... but the leading bogie being where it should be suggests that the pointwork was correctly set when the move started ............ could the bobby have had second thoughts and reset the road under the train ? .................... yep, we'll have to wait an' see !

 

Point work set and signal cleared are not necessarily the same thing ... perhaps the signalman pulled the crossover but didn't clear the disc, then changed his mind, the driver saw the crossover move and set off ....

 

Edit

 

Not wishing to speculate here - just correcting a misunderstanding.

[Titan]

The picture only tells so much, the leading bogie under the visible cab is the only one on the correct line. The other other bogies are all ‘wrong line’ and every coach has a derailed bogie. Quite a challenge for the re-railing team!

 

The only derailed bogie in the picture is the second one, all others appear to be on the rails, even if they are not the right rails...

[The Stationmaster]

Could be the bogie itself or the points. Until the downloads are done of the signalling and train and the rails examined that won't be clear. I can think of at least two possible ways it could happen.

Wait for the report by subscribing to the RAIB site.

 

And I could add a couple more - but won't.

 

Quite why the RAIB need to 'investigate' when all the potential causes are all relatively straightforward to examine and finalise somehow beats me although it is obviously a reportable incident - but reportable does not mean that it necessarily it requires an RAIB investigation.  and as for leaving it until the following day - my flabber is gasted especially as at this time of year some possible evidence could well have been destroyed by the weather in that time.

[caradoc]

If the cause is known and straightforward I too am surprised that RAIB need to attend at all, let alone cause a delay in re-opening the railway, so perhaps there is more to the incident than is yet public knowledge ?

[Wickham Green]

Point work set and signal cleared are not necessarily the same thing ... perhaps the signalman pulled the crossover but didn't clear the disc, then changed his mind, the driver saw the crossover move and set off ....

 

Edit

 

Not wishing to speculate here - just correcting a misunderstanding.

No misunderstanding here ......... perhaps my initial 'but' was superfluous !