Z Reviews hi-fi snake oil

[Guest]

How about a vacuum tube pre-amp for your Commodore 64?

 

https://retrospective.shop/nutube64-preamp-module-for-evo64/

[Hroth]

24 minutes ago, 30801 said:

How about a vacuum tube pre-amp for your Commodore 64?

 

https://retrospective.shop/nutube64-preamp-module-for-evo64/

 

Two mutually incompatible obsolete technologies?

 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Of course any valve amplifier requires an output transformer** - the elimination of this component in itself is the best recommendation for a transistor amplifier.

There was an amplifier using valves that actually had a direct (via a electrolytic) output to a high impedance speaker (IIRC around 100ohms)

the general layout was similar to later transistor push pull outputs, using something like an ECC82 as a phase splitter.

The circuit was published in that book (can't remember the title) that used to come out regularly with circuit diagrams of commercial equipment.

 

[melmerby]

There's plenty of snake oil in the current revival of vinyl.

 

Turntables being sold that give a "much warmer sound" than CD (yes that's the distortion) that I wouldn't let my LPs anywhere near.😄

[CWJ]

Another qualified electrical & electronic (albeit not audio) engineer here for a giggle.

 

I wonder if chemists have a similar giggle when they see shampoo adverts? You know the sort, lots of scientific-sounding buzzwords and chemical structure diagrams. I think Bill Bryson got it right when he said, shampoo, shower gel, etc. are all the same stuff, just in different bottles.

 

Back to hi-fi audio, in my experience the things that matter are those which you would expect to matter. The diameter of the speakers, the bandwidth of the amplifier and the base quality of whatever you're listening to. I guess some people got all that right decades ago so they now need something else to spend their money on.

 

(Incidentally, slightly off-topic but as some people have mentioned hearing tests: just try finding out enough technical information to confidently choose a hearing aid! They deliberately withhold any technical data whatsoever, presumably in the hope that customers will think they'd better get an expensive one in case it's better. Not as bad as the snake oil technique but equally unhelpful).

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, CWJ said:

I think Bill Bryson got it right when he said, shampoo, shower gel, etc. are all the same stuff, just in different bottles.

 

ISTR that the stuff that became mouthwash was originally developed as a floor cleaner.

[The Johnster]

Anyone else remember the Amstrad TP12 record deck from the 70s?  It had an ‘equiponderate tri-generate’ or something platter, a bit like propeller blades and useless for supporting a 12” record.  
 

I bought one second-hand and used the solid veneered chipboard base to mount one of those Connisseur kit belt drive decks, using the original Amstrad SME-clone arm and an Ortofon cartridge, tracked reliably at 1.8g but sounded better at 2g.  An improvement on my precious Garrard belt drive.  It worked, rather well.  

Edited November 6, 2023 by The Johnster

[Dagworth]

4 hours ago, CWJ said:

The diameter of the speakers, the bandwidth of the amplifier and the base quality of whatever you're listening to

And reasonable speaker cables, not bell wire. Let the output of the amp reach the speakers and not be lost in resistance on the way. 
 

Andi

[SHMD]

22 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Anyone else remember the Amstrad TP12 record deck from the 70s?  It had an ‘equiponderate tri-generate’ or something platter, a bit like propeller blades and useless for supporting a 12” record.  
 

I bought one second-hand and used the solid veneered chipboard base to mount one of those Connisseur kit belt drive decks, using the original Amstrad SME-clone arm and an Ortofon cartridge, tracked reliably at 1.8g but sounded better at 2g.  An improvement on my precious Garrard belt drive.  It worked, rather well.  

 

..but did it sound luxuriantly deeper with a richer reach and an enhanced reproductive tone quality?

 

 

Kev.

[The Johnster]

Probably.  

[DIW]

12 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

ISTR that the stuff that became mouthwash was originally developed as a floor cleaner.

OOH! Anyone tried laying ballast with Plax?

[Il Grifone]

On 06/11/2023 at 17:08, The Johnster said:

Probably.  

 

Beat me to it!

 

I doubt that even the resistance of bell wire would make much difference ( I'd have to calculate and the brain is tired and any effect depends on the output impedance of the amplifier and the speaker impedance anyway). (Why 15 ohm speakers are 'better' than 3 ohm)

Many years ago I was looking at a then new 401 on the Garrard stand at a Hi-Fi show. Asked if I was interested in buying one, I said I have a 301 and was advised to keep it*. Stupidly I cleared it out (SWMBO orders!) when we came back to the UK in the late nineties!

* Standard BBC equipment at the time. Mine drove a Decca ffss elliptical cartridge (Mk III IIRC) and arm.

Re the output transformer (or lack of), finding a 100 ohm speaker would be the problem. I did have a pair of high impedance phones that came with my crystal set, but they could hardly be considered Hi-Fi.

[melmerby]

6 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

Re the output transformer (or lack of), finding a 100 ohm speaker would be the problem.

It did come with speakers. probably not particularly good. I presume it was cheaper than using output transforners.

IIRC it was some sort of consumer (valve) music centre (such as a radiogram), although nowadays I can't remember a great deal about it (too many years have passed............☹️.)

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by melmerby

[Il Grifone]

On 08/11/2023 at 20:59, melmerby said:

It did come with speakers. probably not particularly good. I presume it was cheaper than using output transforners.

IIRC it was some sort of consumer (valve) music centre (such as a radiogram), although nowadays I can't remember a great deal about it (too many years have passed............☹️.)

 

 

Snake oil is not a new phenomenon - remember the Sinclair amps from the fifties. I gather the class D one was given to blowing up.

Edited January 6 by Il Grifone

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

Snake oil is not a new phenomenon - remember the Sinclair amps from the fifties. I gather the class D one was given to blowing up

I had one of the OC35 based amps, it wasn't bad but needed proper heat sinks to get the rated power, else it overheated.

 

There's nothing wrong with properly designed Class D amps.

My Home Cinema amp uses them - 6x100W & 95% efficiency,  AFAIK it also has a switch mode power supply meaning it really only consumes much power when needed and it runs pretty cool most of the time.  Maybe not as clean sound as a properly designed analog amp but a lot cheaper for the same power output

It's also quite light weight in comparison with some others, having no iron cored mains transformer or large heatsinks.

[Il Grifone]

The class D stability problem has been solved now. I don't know if the alleged self destruct function of the Sinclair amps was true or not, but they didn't stay on the market long.

I did buy a pair of 10 watt (allegedly) analogue amplifier modules from a place in London* while a student. We had to test one in the lab of course causing it's instant failure. A new set of AD161/2 output transistors solved that and they gave me a few years service in my stereo record player**. (No new fangled silicon transistors here!)

*Tottenham Court Road IIRC - the late sixties - a long time ago now!

** This suffered a series of upgrades over the years....

BSR cartridge to Ronette BF40, BSR changer to Deccadec, ECL82s to above amps and Mullard preamp.

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=81905

 

The SP25 mentioned in the above link did rather suffer from rumble even when new. I would say the quoted tenner is about right seeing the age of the thing,

Edited November 9, 2023 by Il Grifone

[Classsix T]

I think if some of the more knowledgeable folks on this thread had a look at my audio setup they'd be horrified, especially the main speakers I've got. (I'm not even going there, suffice to say there's Celestion woofers in hefty cabinets.)

 

I don't know why there's not a more akin to railway modelling perspective to it. "It's my setup"?

 

I've gathered my gear over decades on the basis of availability and affordability. Were I a richer man no doubt I'd have better kit. But I do 00 on the trains and I rely on my 90s JVC/Technics kit for audio. Sue me. If there's better then give me the money for it.

 

C6T.

[Il Grifone]

Nothing wrong with Celestion woofers!

[Classsix T]

6 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Nothing wrong with Celestion woofers!

Certainly not, however I don't doubt my cack-handed teenage attempt at adding mids and tweeters from butchered JVC speakers would undeniably bring forth a cacophony of teeth sucking from the assembly!

 

C6T.

[57xx]

Celestion make some of the best guitar speakers, nothing g wrong with them.

[Il Grifone]

I've just bought a faulty Marantz amplifier on eBay.it (Missed out on a NAD* grrrr!) Watch this space!

 

I was going for a Sony, but realised it used STK output stage blocks in the nick of time - these were rubbish back in the mists of time when you could still get the originals.

 

* It was a bit rusty (new phono sockets would not have been a big deal!), but was claimed to come on but not work. Possibly just because the jumpers were missing? Nah! Too easy!

[New Haven Neil]

17 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

Missed out on a NAD

 

Had a 3130 back in the day, can't say I was that impressed.  Superseded with a Musical Fidelity B1 then an A100 - much more musical.

[Classsix T]

My TEAC CD Player/copier is currently displaying "ERROR" on its display as soon as turned on. I strongly suspect current TEAC produce is a million miles away from the reel to reel kit featuring in Apocalypse Now and (possibly) Richard Nixon's office.

 

C6T.

[Il Grifone]

Undoubtedly! My Teac surround amplifier is not up to much*.

Is there a disc in the device? Try unplugging it and leave for awhile. They can get their knickers in a twist (any make!). or a loose disc can jam the works.

 

* Lack of guts (5w/channel into 4 ohm IIRC) and always irritatingly resets to a no sound mode. Not having the remote doesn't help either.