vac_basher Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 Looking at some pics of the Class 50s along the sea wall on Fotopic, I've had a brilliant idea. I'm going to build a small layout of Parsons Tunnel, the rocks, Smuglers Bridge, and a section of the sea wall. All in 3 feet I'll be able to ''run'' anything from GW Kings to Westerns and Warships, to Vacs, to 33s, to 47s, to HSTs. B) Here's a rough trackplan I did last night in bed. I don't mind the operating potential is inexistant. I just want a small layout I can take outdoors to photograph my stock on in natural light. I wante to go and buy the material for the baseboard today, but I had an unexpected problem with my car I hope to get the boards done by the weekend sometime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry1975 Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 Sounds interesting, good luck with your project . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted April 26, 2010 Author Share Posted April 26, 2010 ooppsss. 'Forgot the plan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainsrgr8 Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 looks like a great idea! Can't wait to see how this develops.. can see this giving some really nice shots in the summer sun Danny Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 I do realize this looks rather psychedelic, but I swear I haven't been taking any drugs!! I made a mock up of what I want to build so I could check the distances/heights with photography in mind. Do you think the wall (books) are too high? That's about 13cm like that. Perhaps when I go to build it I should lower it by at least 3 or 4cm. The idea's coming along really nicely in my head. I've seen a beautiful bridge, while not anything much like the real Smugglers Bridge, would be ideal for this project. I was thinking of going for Tillig Ho gauge track, which I thought quite realistic but I think in the end I'll use some Peco code-75 which I already have. Could I take the opportunity to ask of anybody has a photo of the inside of the bridge and/or the little harbor that's between the bridge and Smugglers Lane. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClikC Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 The idea's coming along really nicely in my head. I've seen a beautiful bridge, while not anything much like the real Smugglers Bridge, would be ideal for this project. I was thinking of going for Tillig Ho gauge track, which I thought quite realistic but I think in the end I'll use some Peco code-75 which I already have. With no points to build, why not go for proper scale 4-mm track and sleepers spacings? SMP, C&L or Exactoscale, you can use the Peco for the fiddle yards/ none scenic part of the layout. Regards Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 Matt, I don't want to change the gauge of my stock, because it would cost a fortune and my main layout is OO anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Vac_Basher, Matts suggestion is applicable to OO. Please give his suggestion due consideration. I know modellers use Peco OO to save time, but where a small diorama is concerned it is well worth making the effort to lay some decent looking track with proper sleeper and panel spacing instead of the mass produced offerings where the sleepers are to HO standards, with no variation in spacing at track joints. Personally if going for bull head track I would go for C&L thick sleepers. Peco I believe make individual lay components for flat bottom rail. There are some very good 00 layouts around where the builders have put as much effort into the track as detailing there stock. There are some very good 00 layouts where all the superb modelling is ruined by using and accepting Peco or other manufacturers track without any alterations to represent 4mm British track standards. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 Gordon, when it comes to track I must admit I'm rather ignorant on the subject. I didn't realize with what Matt had suggested that I wouldn't need to re-wheel my stock. Actually I posted a question the other day in regards to the track here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/14193-sleeper-spacing/ as what I was thinking of doing with my Peco track was correctly spacing the sleepers. I would have thought that would have made it look ok, but I'll look into the products yous reccomended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClikC Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 I Probably should have made that clearer, but yes I was referring to using 00 gauge track, but with the correct sized sleepers (AKA, finescale 00). The important thing to realize with peco track is the sleepers are too small, both in length, width and sleeper centers (the gap between them). C&L finescale and SMP do ready to run 00 gauge track with the correct sized and spaced sleepers, you can just buy it and use it like you would with peco track. It's down side is the sleepers are very thin. Exactoscale do track bases, you simply thread your rail of choice into them. Personally, this is what I would recommend, as not only are the sleepers correctly spaced and sized, but also they have the correct depth (makes ballasting much easier). Exactoscale also do concrete sleepers for use with flat bottom rail, but the sleeper spacing is wrong. For rail with the exactoscale bases, i'd recommend C&L finescale's HiNi nickel silver rail. Without wishing to make everything too complex, I'd also recommend obtaining some straight track templates. Basically an A4 sheet of paper with a 60 ft panel on it. Simply cut out the paper panel and stick to the baseboard, then use it as a guide to stick the sleepers too. This will give you all the correct sleeper spacings for a 60 ft panel. You can then cut notches in the rail head at the start of each panel, then fix dummy 4 bolt cosmetic fishplates on the rail. This will give you authentically detailed track. I really think it's worth it, especially on small layouts where the beauty is in the detail, and you find yourself really studying the scenery. The only downside is you might not be able to run very old locomotives, which tend to have massively oversized flanges, and thed to run on the chairs, not the rail. C&L Finescale Exactoscale Regards Matt EDIT: Further to Gordon A's post, you can "Build your own" track, which involves purchasing Sleepers, then fitting a more detailed chair which holds your rail of choice. This will produce REALLY finescale track. It's a lot more involved, especially seeing as you have to start thinking about which side of chair should have the key sticking out of it. Personally, I'd recommend what I said above, as i imagine you like this to be a nice quick project. But, get yourself a few chairs and some sleepers to use with some off cuts of rail, try knocking up a 60 ft panel you might find you prefer it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodnok Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Exactoscale also do concrete sleepers for use with flat bottom rail, but the sleeper spacing is wrong. What have they used, and what did you want it to be? According to a 1993 (i.e. BR vintage) document I have, the standard for concrete sleeper spacing varies dependent on the intended linespeed, the quality of the formation and the traffic level. Up to 90mph is listed as 700mm centre to centre (9.19mm in 4mm/ft), 100/110mph as 650mm (8.53mm) and 125mph+ as 600mm (7.87mm). Curves tighter than 800m radius or where there are known formation problems to use reduced distance - down to a limit of 650mm. This needs engineering approval. This implies that any spacing between 700mm and 650mm is valid, and that 600mm is also valid for high speed track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 Bloodnok, that's interesting. Thanks for that. I just measured the distance on a bit of Peco wooden sleeper track I have (that's all I have at hand at the present) and the sleepers on that seem to be spaced at 7mm. So that's a bit too close. I saw on my other topic, specifically about this question (see link in my previous post), that the sleepers Peco do are too short too. So I doubt that just spacing them correctly would make it look much more realistic. I'll have to mess around a bit, and see what I can get it to look like. Is anybody familiar with Tillig Ho track? It looks good, but I doubt it's accurate for British track (We're modeling in the wrong gauge anyway! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClikC Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 What have they used, and what did you want it to be? According to a 1993 (i.e. BR vintage) document I have, the standard for concrete sleeper spacing varies dependent on the intended linespeed, the quality of the formation and the traffic level. Up to 90mph is listed as 700mm centre to centre (9.19mm in 4mm/ft), 100/110mph as 650mm (8.53mm) and 125mph+ as 600mm (7.87mm). Curves tighter than 800m radius or where there are known formation problems to use reduced distance - down to a limit of 650mm. This needs engineering approval. This implies that any spacing between 700mm and 650mm is valid, and that 600mm is also valid for high speed track. No idea I've never got my hand on it. Looking at pictures It's probably pretty close to 650 / 600 for high speed CWR lines. Far too close together for my 74' period, where jointed FB was still common. TBH, you can always use a template, and cut the web between the sleepers. Is anybody familiar with Tillig Ho track? It looks good, but I doubt it's accurate for British track (We're modeling in the wrong gauge anyway! ) Only some of us I much prefer working in P4. Regards Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 If there wasn't so much work involved, and the extra cost, I'd go over to P4 myself. Couldn't the manufactors possibly make the wheels with longer axels, allowing them to be regauged fairly easyly? Anyhow, having the baseboards cut today. Might assemble it tonight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 By any chance, does anybody happen to have any photos of the little harbour, behind the bridge, at the end of Smugglers Lane? (I was sure I asked the same question the other day, but I can't find it ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Not really, this is about the best I can do, these are the "back" side of the bridge: Where do you live, is it worth planning a field trip as the location is still there, has to be one of the benefits of modelling somewhere like this!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 Thanks Glorious NSE (good Vac one that one was ) although unfortunatly these pics are of little use to me. Interesting to note though how the ground slopes away from the track from this perspective. From the photos taken from the otherside that's not very noticable. Yes, a field trip would have been ideal, however I don't have the time at the present moment, and I really want to get this project off the ground ASAP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Didn't think they would be lots of use, but they are the only ones i've got shot the "wrong" side of the tracks there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 Here we go then! The project is now officially off the ground!! I suppose the pics speak for themselves. As you can see, woodwork isn't one of my virtues . It took me four hours to put a 100x40cm baseboard together. I'm sure some of you could have done that in 20 minutes. I wanted to screw the walls in from underneath the main baseboard, but it proved troublesome to align the screws with the walls (plus I'm not very good at using an electric screwdriver ), so I have now glued the sea walls onto the main board and will wait for the glue to dry overnight. (Just for the record, the other day I mentioned that I wanted to lower the height of the sea wall. The track bed will now be at 9.5cm above sea level) Opinions of the work so far would be appreciated. My goal for the next session is to cut the trackbed to shape. Although I already know that will be a troublesome task as I don't have a jigsaw. Cost of layout so far: £33 Labour: 4 hours. Time to have dinner now as I was so absorbed with this that I forgot to eat before. Raw materials. Mesurments, aided with my camera so I could check that I'll be able to get the photographic compositions I want. Three hours later we have a baseboard. Four hours later, and we now have the sea walls guled in place (now also weighed down with books and bottles of wine ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 Since my last session I've realized I forgot the gradient . I wanted the line to slope gently down a centimeter or so from the tunnel mouth. So I've had to bin that idea as it's too late now to do anything about that. So after a day or two of procastrating, I finally cut the trackbed today (without a jigsaw). It looks like I may have done the footpath too narrow though. I have also cut the polystyrene today for the landscape. I'm not too sure I've got the basic shape I wanted, especially the bit behind the bridge where the harbor will be. I'm also not sure if I should add an extra cm or so to the height, to bring it all level with the trackbed. That's all been glued down with Copysex and weighed down. I'm a bit worried at the moment as I'm not sure if it's coming along to plan. Over the weekend I hope to get the joins between the trackbed and seawalls sanded down, and cut the landscape to shape. Running total:- Cost so far: £42.50 Labour so far: 6.5 hours Right time for a shower as I'm covered in polystyrene! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 8, 2010 Author Share Posted May 8, 2010 This is where we're at after todays 3 hour session (Already got a Vac on it! B) ) The scene is beginning to take shape now. I hope to get that all plastered tomorrow (Really, I should have done that tonight so it would dry overnight). B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 9, 2010 Author Share Posted May 9, 2010 After today's session, I think you can begin to see where we're going. Today I just plastered the landscape and carved (oh the mess! ) and plastered the rocks. I'm quite happy how this is beginning to look. During the next few days I hope to get the track laid and ballasted. Running total:- £44.50 11.5 hours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 The plaster's just about dry, and I've sanded that all over to make it a bit smoother. I won't botther posting pics of that. Ballast tomorow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 Busy day today! B) First of all I had the not so brilliant idea of brush painting the rails rust color. I should have just sprayed it, as it took ages to paint by hand. I'm not sure if I'm too happy with the paint application as they still seem to look a bit shiny. Of course, that may have been because, as I don't have any rust color paint, I mixed gloss red and matt black . We'll see what they look like tomorrow when they're dry.... Next I built the bridge, which is a continental kit by Aughen. It's not really anything like the real Smugglers Bridge, but I think it should look quite good. When I ordered it I hadn't noticed it was only suitable for single track, so I'll have to get another one. I had to modify it a bit to get the right height and to make it have three arches instead of four, but that was fairly simple. Last but not least I cut out all the bits for the walls I'll need. They're by Faller. I got them because I wasn't able to find any other walls with larger individual stones. Some of the walls have been glued in place, but others will have to wait, otherwise I will not be able to put the bridge in place. This little project seems to be coming on quite smoothly. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the track laid and ballasted. But first I have that pile of sleepers to deal with. I want to paint the chairs rust color. I'm not looking forward to that.... Running total:- £75 aprox. 16 hours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 I wasn't to keen on this job, but once I got into the swing of it I really did begin to enjoy it. In the end I sort of wished I had more to do! It was quite a pleasant satisfaction to stand back and see the finished job. I feel this really does deserve a photo. Running total:- £77 aprox. 17.5 hours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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