Popular Post 5050 Posted March 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) Since parting with 'Enigma Engineering' I have been considering a replacement small and very portable layout of a similar nature to Enigma as EE always seemed to go down well at shows. Enigma's track plan was very simple but the 'complications' built into it added to the fun (?). I fancied a rather more complicated approach this time and fiddled around with bits of track, Peco points etc. and eventually came up with something I was reasonably happy with. However, seeing as how I am working in P4 and P4 point templates do not offer the same geometry as Peco small radius Setrack points I had to draw my own using a well known drawing programme. Firstly I had to re-acquaint myself with its peculiarities which took a couple of goes but then, like riding a bike, it started to come back! I drew the basic track plan as a centre line and then offset either side 9.415mm to give the P4 gauge of 18.83. I then offset from these lines 1mm to give the rail width. There was much cutting and trimming etc. especially around points, Vee rails and wing rails but eventually I did it. The minimum radius is 450mm on the two end 3-ways and the 'Y's but as I will only be using short wheelbase 4 wheel stock there shoudn't be any problem (famous last words?). I've built all the pointwork using ply, rivet and C&L chairs for the 'exposed' lines but the lines that will be inset are on copperclad - which is SO much easier to build with than ply etc.! The 3 diamonds were 'fun'. It took me a while prior to commencing track building to work out how they were going to work electrically but I think I've sorted it out! As there will only be one engine in steam this makes electrics so much simpler. I'm probably going to have 2 small fiddle yards at the ends so that a 'through' train can bring in fresh wagons and take away the 'used' ones. And YES, Gordon A., there will most likely be gates at either end The baseboard has already been built, all in one 4' x 15" (plus FY's at approx. 12") and the controls etc. will be built in. Should be (relatively) easy to transport and erect but, hopefully, a bit more fiendish to operate in a similar way to Enigma with cards etc. I've tried several 'operations' using bits of card on a sheet of corrugated with a pencilled trackplan and I think it will work OK. I've used a 4 wheel wagon as a test piece while building and it runs through OK. I just hope the locos will as well! Here is a photo of the track under construction, I'll post some more of the baseboard etc. as and when I can take them in a better situation. Edited March 22, 2020 by Ruston Change Title 9 1 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 And I thought shunting Enigma was difficult! That's going to be a whole new kettle of monkeys. Er.. Fish. I need a catch point building, just in case you need the practice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin 60 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Eeeeeekkkkk! John. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Lord and Lady!! You'll need a Sentinel for that!! Lovely work. , Respect!!! Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Looks lovely - you should frame it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Having been a long time admirer of Enigma Engineering I can't wait to see where you take this new project. You have made a great start - that trackwork is superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 On 17/03/2019 at 01:46, south_tyne said: that trackwork is superb. You haven't seen it close up! Lots of compromises to cover up the non-prototypical radius etc. The trouble is that I can't tell if it works OK until it's laid and wired. It's fine pushing a couple of wagons around but its only when I can run a loco under power that we'll know for sure. It'll be some sort of industrial 'complex' with a variety of buildings 'borrowed' from different locations and adapted to suit. I've got some candidates in mind and there will be much perusing of books to find some more. A card system again for operating and restrictions on siding length etc. to make it 'interesting'. Still deciding on a name. I've got a few ideas but it'll be a secret for a while 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 A bit of an update. Here is the baseboard with cork laid and a set of point templates fixed down (with spray adhesive not PVA) so that I can lay the trackwork in the correct place! As it will come off the building board in 3 sections I will need some sort of registration to ensure it all lines up. Pointwork is (more or less) finished with chairs etc. fitted. Next stop will be lifting it off the template without it breaking or falling apart! I think some lighter fuel to dissolve the double-sided tape sticky may be in order. The angled 'top section' lifts off for storage and will have some of the lighting, a backscene of some sort and also possibly scenery/low relief buildings. The big hole in the front is for my AGW controller although I may blank it off to fit a DIN socket for a wander lead controller instead. The little hole is for 'personal items'. Holes in the ends will lead out to small fiddle sticks/yards, still to be 'designed' (!) and built. A coat of paint will disguise all the varied shades of wood. 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted April 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, 5050 said: Next stop will be lifting it off the template without it breaking or falling apart! I think some lighter fuel to dissolve the double-sided tape sticky may be in order. Ah. Thank you. I had always wondered how people who use this method of construction solved that problem. (In the past, I have simply drawn the rail inner faces and sleeper centre-lines onto the underlay.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 Well, I've managed to lift the points from the template without to much damage using a thin 6" steel rule and an application of lighter fuel. A couple of soldered joints came loose and one sleeper hadn't actually been soldered at all! I've given the copperclad ones a scrub to try and clean off the excess flux and given the ply sleepers a minimal brushing likewise but I'm not to happy with soaking them even if it is supposed to be waterproof ply that is used in their manufacture. I'm rather surprised that one section has come up with a bit of a twist to it. As it is held down onto a flat surface etc. I wonder why. I'll have to make sure it is well weighted down when I lay it. I also made sure that the 'bottoms' of the rivets are flush with the surface of the underside of the sleepers using a small flat file so that any uneveness is eradicated as much as possible. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 You may 'do down' your pointwork but I think it looks great and greatly admire your skill... you're too modest! It's such an interesting trackplan and so different to the norm, which can only be a good thing. The baseboard looks like a work of art too! I am looking forward to reading about the operating schedule/procedure you develop for the layout in due course, and how you will use the card system. I was fascinated by Enigma and really enjoyed your article about the operation of it in RM a few years ago 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 The track work has me interested already - one to watch. One can already picture a small post war sentinel or similar negotiating the harsh curves between buildings... Paul A. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middlepeak Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Paul, Go on, I dare you ….. set this up on your demo table at Scalefour North this weekend and prove that your locos will go round those curves! See you on Saturday, Geraint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 23 minutes ago, Middlepeak said: Paul, Go on, I dare you ….. set this up on your demo table at Scalefour North this weekend and prove that your locos will go round those curves! See you on Saturday, Geraint All I know is that 9' wheelbase wagons will go round! I'm just hoping that similarly dimensioned locos do the same - but I won't know until I've laid and wired it so there may be a lot of wasted time if they don't. Won't have room at S4N - although I could sneak a point in I suppose.................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginelane Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Interesting set set up and am sure it will create lots of naughty words when people are trying to solve the shunting problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginelane Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Interesting set set up and am sure it will create lots of naughty words when people are trying to solve the shunting problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 6 hours ago, enginelane said: Interesting set set up and am sure it will create lots of naughty words when people are trying to solve the shunting problems You can have first go then! I don't know any naughty words - but I'm always willing to learn............................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted April 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, 5050 said: I don't know any naughty words - but I'm always willing to learn............................ Cheeky. Rude. That’s two naughty words for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 Some progress can be reported. The pointwork being basically complete and ready for laying, I decided I should electrically test it to avoid disappointment at a later date. I therefore bodged the rail gaps with little bits of wire underneath so that the tightest curve on the left hand 3-way was usable by a loco and, with bated breath, turned the knob with one of my 4-wheel diesels on the track - and it ran through without any problem, including the diamonds. Phew! It also propelled a couple of wagons likewise so I'm reasonably confident that the whole thing should work OK. Having got (via the goodwill of one of our members) a tube of Evostik I am now almost able to start laying the track but before I do, I need to cut 'troughs' for the point tie-bars and associated 'rodding' which will be old lengths of Code 100 rail. This is virtually the same height as the cork thickness so a layer of paper will be laid over it once in position to disguise it. Actual operation will be by slide switches on brackets along the front edge of the baseboard. These will also change the polarities of the point and diamond frogs. Photos to come! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) As promised (a month ago!) I have been fitting the point operating 'system'. Slide switches on aluminium angle brackets along the front. The two 'left' diamonds will both be switched by the extreme left hand set of point blades and the right hand diamond by the single point above the right hand 3-way. To enable both diamond switching and crossing-vee switching I am using some triple pole double throw switches that I discovered I had in my 'stash of useful items'. 2 sets of contacts will power the diamonds and the third the vee. You will see some 'spring things' attached to the switches. These are made from the innards of Schrader car tyre valves, a short length of brass tube and some brass wire that is a sliding fit into the tube. The spring takes up the excess movement of the switch compared to the tiebar (like an omega loop) and this system worked well on 'Lower Pandy' 20+ years ago so I'm trying it again. In places, the switches couldn't be positioned directly opposite the relative points so I have had to introduce angle cranks to reverse direction. These were made from the excess parts left over when building High Level gearboxes (the bits that look like London Underground symbols), soldered at 90 degrees and two 'legs' cut off. A little tag of brass (etch kit waste) is rivetted to each arm for the operating wires to be attached and provide a swivel. The track is drawing pinned down to ensure accurate location and I intend to spray a mist of matt grey to show the sleeper positions for sticking it down. The pair of switches for the left hand 3 way. I will build 'walls' around the aluminium in due course. Swiches are attached to the aluminium with small BA screws into drilled and tapped holes. The switches for the 2 'middle' points showing the angle cranks for reversing the throw. This is the point that will control polarity of the diamond next to it. It's all taking a lot longer than I expected - but life keeps getting in the way! Edited May 10, 2019 by 5050 7 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Looks good - that point control set up is similar to mine, except about a thousand times classier looking and better built ! What do you do about couplings? I was thinking about that as I shunted the one siding on my layout that has a similar radius to yours, because I can't couple up the 3-links on that for love nor money. Mind you they mostly aren't sprung, and neither are the buffers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) I've always used 3-link with iron wire bottom links for magnetic coupling and uncoupling. With having the 2 sidings facing away from the operator I am a bit concerned about being able to access them and was thinking about fitting Dinghams but I don't think they are to happy with tight curves. Hopefully most of the coupling should be done on straighter bits but it is a subject I'm a bit concerned about. Mind you, I wasn't before you mentioned it.................................. Edited May 10, 2019 by 5050 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 2 hours ago, 5050 said: I've always used 3-link with iron wire bottom links for magnetic coupling and uncoupling. With having the 2 sidings facing away from the operator I am a bit concerned about being able to access them and was thinking about fitting Dinghams but I don't think they are to happy with tight curves. Hopefully most of the coupling should be done on straighter bits but it is a subject I'm a bit concerned about. Mind you, I wasn't before you mentioned it.................................. The Dinghams are OK with tight curves as long as there are no long overhangs on stock and locomotives, as you saw earlier on my layout. By the way, I fixed the coach by using a Kadee, modified by pulling out the pin for the knuckle, removing it and by filing and fixing a Dingham hook and latch on. Now the coupling is free to swing off the centre line and go round the tight point without pulling the coach off the rails. I don't suppose you're going to be using long wheelbase 4-wheel coaches on here anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 Only in a straight line across the front. Possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted May 12, 2019 Author Share Posted May 12, 2019 Track laying has started! Here is a shot of the baseboard after the quick blast of grey/brown to leave a template of the track positions. And here is the first point stuck with Evostik and weighted down so it can't escape. I just hope that all the sections line up OK when I finish! 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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