EFE announce Cravens RT bus (plus updates)

[John M Upton]

I get the distinct impression that Bachmann have forgotten that the have EFE's diecast bus range in their ownership.

[Legend]

3 hours ago, John M Upton said:

I get the distinct impression that Bachmann have forgotten that the have EFE's diecast bus range in their ownership.

They probably just don’t make a sufficient margin out of it .  They are bringing out the Leyland National again so not quite forgotten 

[64F]

The diecast releases started to dry up the moment Bachmann took EFE over in late 2016.  Prior to that there had been about six new releases each month, but for the next three years the annual releases didn't make it into double figures, and a high proportion of these were just re-releases of previous liveries with minor changes (i.e. different registration/fleet numbers/destinations) which suggested there wasn't a lot of staff resource being put into product development.  New releases then stopped altogether for three years until the Leyland National anniversary models came out late last year, and since then there has been nothing else announced.  Obviously Gilbow's' difficulties may have meant that they didn't have much in the pipeline at the time of the takeover and it was probably unrealistic to expect production to step back up to the previous level or for the previous prices to be maintained, but it has never seemed to me like Bachmann are interested in the range, which is a shame.  There are endless new livery opportunities for the existing castings, and if they can sell them at £40 a time (like the Nationals) while Oxford's newly-cast (and in some cases rather niche) bus models retail at £25-27 you would hope that the margins would be adequate.

[stewartingram]

Don't forget the model bus market has virtually collapsed as well. I daily look at 'Model Bus Zone' news, which used to have news virtually every day, of a release or three from somebody or other. Nowadays it can go a month without anything, and the prices of s/h models has crashed.

[brushman47544]

12 hours ago, 64F said:

There are endless new livery opportunities for the existing castings, and if they can sell them at £40 a time (like the Nationals) while Oxford's newly-cast (and in some cases rather niche) bus models retail at £25-27 you would hope that the margins would be adequate.

 

But can Bachmann sell ordinary liveries at that price? At least some of the Nationals appear to have sold well going by what is no longer available, but somehow I don't think there would be enough sales for the smaller operator liveries to be produced and the NBC colours (remember you could have red or green) have been done and it's not difficult to re-decal for your operator of choice.

 

If you look at the resistance to the higher prices being asked for the newly tooled Class 37 and 47, with many on here saying they are too expensive for their budgets and so will keep their existing versions with the older tooling, I suspect Bachmann will be questioning whether investment in new bus models will given them the returns they need to make a profit. The current state of the model bus market can't be helping; I suspect there are other brands that Bachmann (and Kader as manufacturer) will prioritise for development and production, so buses have gone on the back burner, assuming the fire hasn't gone out completely.

[64F]

2 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

 

But can Bachmann sell ordinary liveries at that price? At least some of the Nationals appear to have sold well going by what is no longer available, but somehow I don't think there would be enough sales for the smaller operator liveries to be produced and the NBC colours (remember you could have red or green) have been done and it's not difficult to re-decal for your operator of choice.

 

If you look at the resistance to the higher prices being asked for the newly tooled Class 37 and 47, with many on here saying they are too expensive for their budgets and so will keep their existing versions with the older tooling, I suspect Bachmann will be questioning whether investment in new bus models will given them the returns they need to make a profit. The current state of the model bus market can't be helping; I suspect there are other brands that Bachmann (and Kader as manufacturer) will prioritise for development and production, so buses have gone on the back burner, assuming the fire hasn't gone out completely.

 

I think that under Gilbow, EFE overproduced and underpriced its product.  At the time it was great for modellers and collectors, because we'd never had decent ready-made bus (or many 1:76 lorry) models before so for a while they sold like hot cakes and people snapped up whatever was released.  However, as more and more models became available and other manufacturers joined the market, I think that buyers became more discerning in what they bought, buying only the models that most interested them.  That would have led to declining  sales volumes and eventually to Gilbow's demise, as well as to Corgi and the other manufacturers drastically scaling back production or going under.  To have Gilbow, Corgi et al releasing ten new bus models a month at (relatively) affordable prices was thus ultimately unsustainable.  This also helps to explain the present glut in secondhand models, though the recent dearth of new products to sustain collector interest or encourage younger people to start collecting probably suppresses secondhand values as well.  Nevertheless there is clearly still a market for new 1:76 bus and lorry models, and there are endless examples of popular and collectable liveries which have not yet been produced on particular EFE castings - it is just a case of finding the right production volume and price point.  The direction that prices are going in is not is question, regrettably.

 

For various reasons over the last few years both Bachmann and Hornby have struggled to produce as many new models as consumers (and no doubt they themselves) would wish, so inevitably they'll be focussing their resources on products that are likely to give the highest return.  Evidently that is not currently die-cast buses and lorries, but hopefully these will start to come back in time.  The fact that Bachmann are apparently still working on new EFE bus castings is encouraging, even if they do not seem to be a high priority.

[wombatofludham]

On 15/03/2023 at 13:37, stewartingram said:

Don't forget the model bus market has virtually collapsed as well. I daily look at 'Model Bus Zone' news, which used to have news virtually every day, of a release or three from somebody or other. Nowadays it can go a month without anything, and the prices of s/h models has crashed.

Absolutely, I can attest to this myself when at the height of the bubble I would avidly collect everything and would even drive to other parts of the country to get models which had sold out in the Midlands.  Now, apart from Rapido buses for the model railway as scenery I've stopped buying every Midlands model, although I do now have a nice collection of scenic duplicate Midlands models to act as "dating" pieces for the different timetable sequences on the layout.

But yes, model bus collecting is virtually dead which seems to be being reflected in Corgi's lack of releases (apart from Borismasters) and the glacial progress on EFE releases.  Perhaps at some point Bachmann will do a few models as scenic items from their back catalogue but I can't see the bus collecting market coming back any time soon.

[Invicta Informant]

Some photos of the buses on display on the Bachmann stand at Ally Pally.

[Paul.Uni]

On 14/03/2023 at 15:29, wainwright1 said:

Nearly four years on from the original announcement, still no sign of these new model buses.

Listed as due 'Summer '23' on the Bachmann website

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/category/die-cast-and-readymade/efe-road

[wainwright1]

Saw those today and pleased to see the livery and routes chosen. I will be going for a red one on the 63 route, one of our locals.

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/category/die-cast-and-readymade/efe-road

All the best

Ray

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by wainwright1

[wainwright1]

Got my Bachmann Collectors magazine yesterday. no mention of the Craven RT.

Still shown as due Summer 2023 on their website.

[wainwright1]

Another month goes by and still no sign or mention of these buses.

Still shown as Summer 2023 release on their website. When does their Summer run out ?

Edited September 13, 2023 by wainwright1

[SRman]

2 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

Another month goes by and still no sign or mention of these buses.

Still shown as Summer 2023 release on their website. When does their Summer run out ?

 

Maybe they're over here in Oz - we're in Spring, heading towards our Summer! 🙃😅

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by SRman

[wainwright1]

I see that the Cravens RTs have fallen back to Autumn 2023.

Announced April 2019. Maybe they will eventually arrive in April 2024. A round 5 years !

Edited October 2, 2023 by wainwright1

[wainwright1]

After a quick check, I see that the release date for this has been put back yet again to Dec/Jan.

 

These models have had a longer gestation than a elephant.

[Paul.Uni]

These are now on the due in the next 30 days page https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/category/arrivals/railway-arrivals-next-30-days?page=1&sortby=6&numper=50

[rembrow]

Just had an email from TTC diecast, that they are expecting the Craven RTs by next Weds.

[brushman47544]

The prices are eye-watering compared to the heyday of diecast model buses from EFE, so I do hope they sell for Bachmann’s sake. Now these Craven’s RTs are out, I wonder how far behind the retooled Routemasters, which seem to have been in development an equally long time, are? The prototypes in the photos in the cabinet in this thread don’t really give an hint as to how far off they are. The country green versions will usually find a place in my fleet.

Edited December 18, 2023 by brushman47544

[wainwright1]

Anybody got one yet ?

 

My regular supplier has not had them in yet.

 

All the best

 

Merry Christmas

 

Ray

[wainwright1]

Got my Craven on Saturday. Route 63 to Honor Oak, Forest Hill Tavern.

 

Very nice model with lots of detail in the platform area.

 

This is good for us as we have a layout of Crystal Palace High Level Station. This was closed in 1954 and the 63 bus route was extended to Crystal Palace to replace the rail service.

Can be posed on the layout for driver training ?

 

All the best

Happy new year

Ray

[andyman7]

These seem to have sold through very quickly. A quick trawl suggests only the green/cream one seems readily available

[wainwright1]

A lot of dealers who ordered these do not seem to have been supplied.

 

Under produced ?

 

 

[SRman]

My OOC example arrived last week, and is posed here with the kit-built one in green from Little Bus Company I completed some years ago.

 

[hmrspaul]

Weren't top box RTs unusual. We only had one used on the 90 route I used every school day for 7 years. 

 

Paul

[SRman]

4 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Weren't top box RTs unusual. We only had one used on the 90 route I used every school day for 7 years. 

 

Paul

 

Not all that unusual. All of the RTs built up to a certain time had top box bodies, as did the non-standard versions from Cravens and Saunders Roe. Top box bodies tended to be disposed of first in the 1960s, including sometimes putting them on Leyland RTL chassis at overhaul, because the RTLs were destined to be sold off before the majority of the AECs. I could give chapter and verse on this, but it would take a lot longer ... such details fill up entire books on the RTs and on London Buses in general.

I always ask the (rhetorical) question, what other bus company would consider 120 buses as non-standard? 😁 There were 120 Cravens bodied RTs.

 

Edited January 8 by SRman
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