Pinkmouse Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Day off today, and I just wasn't in the mood for Jerusalem Works, so I went to the drawer and pulled out a kit I'd been looking forward to and yet dreading in equal measure, a Brassmasters Fowler 4F. Now for those that don't know, this is a fine, highly detailed kit featuring fully working inside valve gear driven by a curious arrangement of cams, pins and axle sleeves. This kit comes with fully illustrated instructions, as well as a CD showing both prototype and model construction pics. So first things first, make a nice cup of tea, read all the instructions, and browse the CD. Repeat. Repeat for the third time, only this time dig out the frets and try to work out which bit is which as I go along. Right, I think I've got the hang of it so I fire up the soldering iron, and start cutting bits out and cleaning them up, and this is progress so far: An overall view of the chassis. Went together very well so far, the only fiddly bit was bending up the front spacer that represents the cylinder block, this took a couple of attempts to get just right before I could strengthen the folds with solder and install it. The chassis sideplates have overlays with lots of lovely rivet detail, but they go on much later in the build, (at least, that's how I understand the instructions... ) Here's a pic of the cylinder stretcher and motion support bracket. Now the MSB is very fiddly, but only because it has lots of bits each made up of several overlays soldered together. All the bits fit perfectly, with very little, if any, fettling required. The only difficulty is that it's so d*mn small. This is a bit of a warm up exercise though, as there are much smaller bits to come! Here's a view from t'other side, this one shows the amount of overlays to better effect. The fold out tabs at the bottom are for the default spring suspension, I may use these, or may go for a CSB arrangement, one to sleep on I think. Next stage, assemble and fit the hornblocks with the coupling rods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Classy build so far! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Classy build so far! Ta, I suspect this may go in fits and spurts - lots of time pondering the next stage, then once I have it worked out, construction will go quickly because of the quality of the parts. However, for a left hand drive engine, I have made a little boo-boo already that I'll need to sort out tomorrow. It's tiny, so a virtual pint to whoever spots it! ...I'll stick to 009 if you don't mind ... I'll let you off if you build something in 009 with working internal gear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5XP Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Ohhh nice one Al B), I'm looking forward to this one mate. I hope you enjoy building this loco along with the valve gear as it will definitely give you some satisfaction when finished. A couple of years ago I bastardised the 4F inside motion to create working inside valve gear for a GW 72xx which worked a treat and I had some fun building it as the valve gear is a very ingenious design. Regards, Darren. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I have made a little boo-boo already that I'll need to sort out tomorrow. It's tiny, so a virtual pint to whoever spots it! That'll be the notch on the spacer below the weighshaft then, on the wrong side for a left h00ker...? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 That'll be the notch on the spacer below the weighshaft then, on the wrong side for a left h00ker...? Nope! Even smaller than that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 I hope you enjoy building this loco along with the valve gear as it will definitely give you some satisfaction when finished. A couple of years ago I bastardised the 4F inside motion to create working inside valve gear for a GW 72xx which worked a treat and I had some fun building it as the valve gear is a very ingenious design. Yup, ingenious is a good word for it. I've just finished reading the instructions for the fourth time, and I think it's starting to make sense! Is there any inside motion for your J21? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Nope! Even smaller than that! Well I give up! Inspiring me to get the Brassmasters Black 5 out of the kit cupboard!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Well I give up! Inspiring me to get the Brassmasters Black 5 out of the kit cupboard!! Ooh! Me want! Anyway, here's the answer: This bracket has a tiny bearing for the lubricator drive, (which apparently, you can make work!). For a L/H drive engine, it needs to be on the other side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Hmmm dont think many will notice that Al On a more practical note, the chassis construction looks very well thought out with slot and tabs on the spacers, which helps greatly with getting a straight and true chassis, but did you use a jig with it as well in construction? I ask out of a growing interest in these tools having seen John Brighton demonstrating at Scalefour north the other weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5XP Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Yup, ingenious is a good word for it. I've just finished reading the instructions for the fourth time, and I think it's starting to make sense! Is there any inside motion for your J21? No sadly not, its a little "tight" working in narrow gauge...... It will have working lubricator linkage though. B) Darren. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 Right, this morning I was still undecided about the default springing vs CSB problem, so I decided to check out the CLAG pages to see if they had a worked example. Well, they did, and I then marked out where I would need to mount the fulcrum points: As you can see, there are a couple of issues with positioning, the front fulcrum would be suspended in space below the frames, and the rear would be at a weak point where the existing springing bracket is folded out. Now, I could use a different hornblock system, or modify the ones provided so I could run the CSB higher up in the frames, but that would then impinge on the inside motion, and involve butchering some frame spacers, and frankly I'm not sure it's worth the effort or the possible visual drawbacks, so I'm going to stick with the Brassmasters method. Time to fire up the soldering iron and build some hornblocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 For those who have worked their way through the Brassmasters LMS loco kit range, the 4F kit marks a return to proper exploded diagrams, after the minor boob of the text-only "Royal Scot" (see kitbuild review by Stephen Williams in MRJ 149). I sympathise with the half anticipation / half dread - I've got to dismantle my part-built secondhand Royal Scot (built in OO ) and somehow rebuild it to S4. There are some diagrams with the Brassmasters kit, but they look like an afterthought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 For those who have worked their way through the Brassmasters LMS loco kit range, the 4F kit marks a return to proper exploded diagrams, after the minor boob of the text-only "Royal Scot" (see kitbuild review by Stephen Williams in MRJ 149). I sympathise with the half anticipation / half dread - I've got to dismantle my part-built secondhand Royal Scot (built in OO ) and somehow rebuild it to S4. There are some diagrams with the Brassmasters kit, but they look like an afterthought. Ivan, I too sympathise as I am partway through a BM LNWR Precursor. I gave up on the instructions after failing to find the information on how to build the kit. Mind you, there is lots of information on build/scrapping dates, numbers, names, a GA of the loco. Looks impressive when you first open the box, but not much use if you can't put the kit together. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 Hmmm dont think many will notice that Al But I will! On a more practical note, the chassis construction looks very well thought out with slot and tabs on the spacers, which helps greatly with getting a straight and true chassis, but did you use a jig with it as well in construction? I would love to get one of the big jigs, but unfortunately they're a bit out of budget at the moment. So I used my Comet axle jigs, spaced out with a little scrap etch as the frames are slightly wider than the Comet blocks allow for. As regards the instructions, they are very good for this kit, you just need to alter your mindset a little to get into the brain of the writer, sometimes they are just slightly obtuse to my way of thinking. That may just be my head though, others may well be fine! Anyway, a few more in progress shots: Soldering the front plate on the hornblocks - normally I just use my asbestos fingers to hold things, but as the blocks are fairly solid, they take a while to heat up, and it seems, even longer to cool down, so I just use a bit of scrap wood to act as a buffer. Adding the spring hangers - At this point, you need to hold the front plate firmly in position whist soldering the hangers, so I firstly tried holding them in the machine vice, thinking I would be able to get the iron in and out quickly enough to avoid the vice acting as a big heatsink. I was wrong! However here you can see the technique I use for these little jobs, I don't try to carry the solder to the job on the iron, but cut a tiny sliver off the roll and put it in place with tweezers, then heat the job up. So here's how I finally got the job done, using a peg held in the vice to get sufficient compression. The wings you can see on the hanger either side of the block are then broken off, cleaned up, and the blocks tried in the hornguides. You need to mix and match at this stage to get each block in the its best fitting guide. After this process, just one needed a little work with 400 grit wet and dry, (glued to a lolly stick to keep it nice and flat). You also need to clean up any solder fillet that's run between the sides and the front plate, for this, I use a very sharp woodworking chisel. Go gently and just take a tiny sliver at a time 'till the block fits snugly in the guide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Ta, I suspect this may go in fits and spurts - lots of time pondering the next stage Anyone that builds todays etched loco kits has my undying respect (if I fitted brake gear in 1976 it was called super-detail). However, surely it would be better to think it all out beforehand then crack on until the loco is finished? Maybe its me....I just hate things hanging around on my bench for more that three days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 Maybe its me....I just hate things hanging around on my bench for more that three days! If I did it for a living so would I! Still, once the inside motion is sorted, I suspect the rest will go together very quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted May 1, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2010 I'm surprised that you don't cut the hornguide areas out before assembling the frames, Al... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 'Cos the Comet jigs only have an adaptor for 6mm cutouts, not the 5mm ones on the kit, so I had to use the axle holes to line up the frames whilst soldering. Not a great issue anyway, they are only held with a couple of small tabs and the fretsaw makes short work of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Maybe its me....I just hate things hanging around on my bench for more that three days! If I did it for a living so would I! It must be that then......This 'costing' thing still cuts in when doing something for myself even if only doing the housework or cleaning the car..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 ....partway through a BM LNWR Precursor. I gave up on the instructions after failing to find the information on how to build the kit. Mind you, there is lots of information on build/scrapping dates, numbers, names, a GA of the loco. Looks impressive when you first open the box, but not much use if you can't put the kit together. At least with the Jubilee and the Black 5, you know that you've got very good exploded diagrams and, with the Royal Scot and 4F you can download the instructions from the Brassmasters website so that you can see what you're letting yourself in for before you decide whether or not you're going to buy the kit. I can't knock the Brassmasters after-sales service, as I bought new frets to replace the ones that the previous owner / builder had trashed in trying to make the thing work in "OO" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 At least with the Jubilee and the Black 5, you know that you've got very good exploded diagrams and, with the Royal Scot and 4F you can download the instructions from the Brassmasters website so that you can see what you're letting yourself in for before you decide whether or not you're going to buy the kit. I can't knock the Brassmasters after-sales service, as I bought new frets to replace the ones that the previous owner / builder had trashed in trying to make the thing work in "OO" Ivan I think that the Precursor kit was the last of the "old style" Brassmaster kits, plumbing tube boiler, etc. The instructions give the impression of being somewhat of an afterthought. This has been a dissappointing kit for me, as I particularly want a Precursor 4-4-0 and the initial impression of the detail on the etches, etc. hasn't been matched by the overall experience. I know some of the BrassMasters team personally, they are a friendly and approachable group who, like most "small suppliers" will provide modellers with all the help that is practical. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Any chance of seeing a picture of the BM LNWR Precursor Jol...? Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 Am I being threadjacked? Never mind, I'd quite like to see a pic as well. Even better, if anyone's built a BM G2 I'd be very interested in that! Oh, and as an aside, first set of hornblocks in, and checking for square. Now these are in and correct, I can use the rods to fix the others knowing everything will be square and true. But that will be later this afternoon, as I'm off to Mum's for lunch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Am I being threadjacked? This did occur to me after I'd posted so profuse aplogies... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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