Pinkmouse Posted May 9, 2010 Author Share Posted May 9, 2010 Well, it's not quite going according to plan... Today I thought I'd go for a nice simple job as I only had a couple of hours spare, making up the slidebars for the pistons. How wrong I was. In theory, the job is simple, fold up the slidebars, add the overlays, and solder up the piston gland covers and overlays. First problem, the holes in the lost wax brass gland covers are way too small to fit over the slidebars, as are the etched overlays. So, I tried to drill out the casting. Even going up slowly through the drills and broaches, you have to remove so much metal that the part ends up distorting, purely by holding it down whilst working on it. Not quite sure how I'm going to fix that. So, for the second attempt, I drilled out as much as I dare, and then slotted out the gland with the fretsaw, followed by very gentle filing. This took ages, but now fits, however there really isn't much strength left in it and I'm probably going to have to do the same thing with the etched overlay. The second issue is the slidebars. The way they go together leaves them very fragile, and because they're so small, getting any kind of clamp in to hold them whilst cleaning up is virtually impossible. I'm sure there must be a way, but I can't think of one at the moment, so I'm going to leave it for now and ponder a while with a glass of JD... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5XP Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Hi Al, as I used only the eccentrics and valve gear parts from my inside motion set I still have all these bits spare, drop me a line if you want em. Daz. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted May 9, 2010 Author Share Posted May 9, 2010 Thanks mate, I may well take you up on that offer, but I think I have a cunning plan to try first... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flymo748 Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Well, it's not quite going according to plan... ... So, I tried to drill out the casting. Even going up slowly through the drills and broaches, you have to remove so much metal that the part ends up distorting, purely by holding it down whilst working on it. Not quite sure how I'm going to fix that. Al, What I'd suggest is soldering the parts that you are trying to drill to a piece of stout brass sheet - say 0.5 mill or thicker - then make the holes. After all is done, "float" the component back off with a hot iron and clean up the remaining solder with a fibreglass brush. I did this recently when I lost a brake hanger out of a set. The process is illustrated on my blog: http://beerandbuckjumpers.blogspot.com/2010/04/and-then-there-were-two.html HTH Flymo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted May 10, 2010 Author Share Posted May 10, 2010 Thanks for the handy hint Flymo, I shall certainly bear it in mind and as a bright new day dawns and with no work today I may well crack on with the salvage operation. Stay tuned for more examples of how not to build a kit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Well, after a ten day hiatus spent servicing some big mixing desks for a customer in Singapore, and with a day off due to a twisted ankle, I can now crack on with the build. After limping to the bench, the first thing I did was solder up the undamaged set of slidebars. After much thought, the best way I found was to remove all the half etch strengthening tags on the slidebars themselves, but leave the ones on the overlays to keep everything true. Once that was done I tacked the gland overlay on the end to hold everything true, then cleaned up. The gland overlay can then be removed, and a little careful filing of the bars to remove some width means they then fit properly into the too small hole in the gland cover. Next up was fitting the assembly into the chassis. This was again a little bit awkward, as the hornblocks needed much more taken off to allow everything to fit. So after trying to fettle them in situ, which was an abject failure, (leading to the scratches you can see on the piston spacer), I unsoldered them and removed them completely. This means I can get the motion solrted, then fettle the block to fit afterward, a much more straightforward process. The front axle isn't needed for any testing, so I can get everything sorted then put the guides back at the very end. This is a good thing though, as whilst unsoldering, one of the guides pinged off, and in my stumbling attempts to find it, I stood on the d**m thing. I may need to order another up from Exactoscale if it can't be tweaked back into shape. Perhaps I should rename this blog -"How not to build a P4 loco! Here's a top down pic to show how little space is available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempenfelt Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Hi Al, I've stupidly had the urge to start one of my own 4f's after I felt like giving my soldering iron a bit of work! This is sure to come with some certain tut tutting from certain individuals as I really ought to finish off my High Level 3f before I start anything else! Apologies chaps! I've comenced my build with the motion bracket, with the intention that i'd get the inside valve gear out of the way first. My first observation is that I can't see any notes with regards to what size the holes in the brackets should be opened up to? Currently I've just opened these out slightly more than the etched holes (0.45mm) for the 2 brackets on the back of the motion bracket and (0.8) for the 3 on the front. Did you do something similar and any idea what the holes needed to opened out to? (I appreciate it's been a while now!) My next comment (s) are again about the 5 brackets that get sanwiched between the motion bracket. I've found that the 5 brackets need quite a bit of fettling to fit through the slots in the front and back half etched pieces of the motion bracket. Likewise I've found the backs of the brackets need quite a bit of thining to allow the whole assembly to be sandwiched together. Did you also find this and how did you get round it? I've gone back and re-read Geoff Haynes article in MRJ 164 and note that he also had the same issue, to overcome it he actually snipped off the tabs on some of the brackets. I'm reluctant to do this as I feel it will weaken the structal integrity of the brackets. Think it may take a while before i'm anywhere near catching you up! Any hoo, have you managed to do much more on your own 4f or has it been packed back into its box for the time being? Very impressed by your progress by the way! Maybe my pestering will encourage you to do a few more updates? Best Wishes Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempenfelt Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Al, I note the lubricator bracket is still on the LHS by the way. Have you changed you mind about altering this/changed your prototype? Knowing how small it is I wouldn't fancy moving it myself! I've got both a LH and RH drive 4f to build, better make sure I get it right on the respective chassis's, any ideas so far on replicating the lubricating drive? Cheers again! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Hi Paul. Well, I got it all together after a lot of fiddling and fettling, but even though each bit was free to move by itself, the whole assembly had a bit more friction than I liked, so I put it to one side and built the tender. I've just restarted construction, and have been working on the body, so tonight when I have more time I'll post a few pics and see if I can help with your other queries. As for the lubricator drive, it's pending, as the derived motion from the movement of the valve gear is insignificant. More later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrowroad Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Hi Al, I've stupidly had the urge to start one of my own 4f's after I felt like giving my soldering iron a bit of work! This is sure to come with some certain tut tutting from certain individuals as I really ought to finish off my High Level 3f before I start anything else! Apologies chaps! I've comenced my build with the motion bracket, with the intention that i'd get the inside valve gear out of the way first. My first observation is that I can't see any notes with regards to what size the holes in the brackets should be opened up to? Currently I've just opened these out slightly more than the etched holes (0.45mm) for the 2 brackets on the back of the motion bracket and (0.8) for the 3 on the front. Did you do something similar and any idea what the holes needed to opened out to? (I appreciate it's been a while now!) My next comment (s) are again about the 5 brackets that get sanwiched between the motion bracket. I've found that the 5 brackets need quite a bit of fettling to fit through the slots in the front and back half etched pieces of the motion bracket. Likewise I've found the backs of the brackets need quite a bit of thining to allow the whole assembly to be sandwiched together. Did you also find this and how did you get round it? I've gone back and re-read Geoff Haynes article in MRJ 164 and note that he also had the same issue, to overcome it he actually snipped off the tabs on some of the brackets. I'm reluctant to do this as I feel it will weaken the structal integrity of the brackets. Think it may take a while before i'm anywhere near catching you up! Any hoo, have you managed to do much more on your own 4f or has it been packed back into its box for the time being? Very impressed by your progress by the way! Maybe my pestering will encourage you to do a few more updates? Best Wishes Paul Paul, Apology not accepted ..... get on and finish the Jinty.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Paul, Apology not accepted ..... get on and finish the Jinty.... Seconded! Finish the Jinty Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucky Duck Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 …and there was I, fretting about the prospect of putting a Comet brass tender kit behind my Hornby Black 5. Al, you have my full respect for tackling a project like this – I'll be watching and learning! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Paul, Apology not accepted ..... get on and finish the Jinty.... Seconded! Finish the Jinty Paul. I did tell him chaps but he wouldn't listen, still I can get the 2nd one off him when he stuffs this one up . Looking forward to seeing your progress anyway Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Well, I'm not sure I should post anymore, as the general consensus seems to be that Paul doesn't need any distractions! But I will, I've just put the camera on charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempenfelt Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Shucks, didn't take me long to get found out! I did attempt to call round and confess Robin but apparently you were at some gig where the act was well beyond the age of your son! :-p Thanks for your input Craig, but you'll be getting nout cheap from me! :-p Will I get in even more trouble if I build both together?! :-p BTW, please don't metion the Wickham Trolley either! ;-) Morgan, I do promise to continue with the Jinty and i will have progess to show for the next meeting!I just felt like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempenfelt Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 ######, this is awkward trying to make postings on the phone! The preceding pints may not have helped either! I will merge these 2 posts when I get back to my PC instead of sitting in a pub! Morgan, I meant to say that I will be bringing progress to the next meeting on several fronts, I just had an urge to get on and use my soldering iron! I would however be interested in you're opinion on how to incorporate you're style of keeper plate. There's also the discussion to be had on motor and drive system, of which I'm leaning towards a motor in the tender. Al, very pleased to hear that more progress has been made an I eagerly await the next batch of photo's! What drive train do you have in mind btw? Many thanks Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Right, I've had my tea, so here's some pics. First up, the Brassmasters Fowler tender. This went together very well, a nice kit, but a few fiddly little parts that took a while to master - the brackets for the coal rails being the most awkward. I actually built this very much according to the instructions, the only things altered where the stanchions for the brake and water scoop were extended to run through the footplate to the frames as per the prototype, and I replaced the cast w/m rear for the tool box with brass sheet, as I couldn't get the casting to marry up with the etched front correctly. You can see the extended stanchions in this shot, along with the fact that I haven't fitted the link to the control rods yet. Doh!! A top three quarter view here, lots of loverly detail and rivets! And the side on shot. Must clean up that watermark from fitting the crest transfer! I still need to do more paintwork on the chassis, then light general weathering, as well as another coat of Klear. Please note that the finish isn't half as bad as it looks in the pics, I had to use the cheap camera, and the only angle I could get half decent rendition of the big black lump was with pretty oblique lighting. I promise to do better next time. Oh, and just in case you thought I'd missed something, I know that it's highly unlikely that a 4F would be fitted with a water scoop tender. I recently found out my prototype was fitted with a Johnson 2950 gall. tender, so this one will be yard dressing until I get another loco that it will suit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrowroad Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Shucks, didn't take me long to get found out! I did attempt to call round and confess Robin but apparently you were at some gig where the act was well beyond the age of your son! :-p It was also around the age of Gordon & Maggie Gravett who we met there...................... Anyway back to the thread... the 4F is looking good and I shall follow this with interest as I too have one in th estock cupboard. Robin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 And onto the loco body. A good kit, with just a few issues. When rolling the cab roof, I just couldn't get the sides to fit the central plate, so after several attempts, I gave up, and just cut and scribed a new piece of n/s to fit in the gap. Once the rainstrip was fitted you couldn't tell the difference. The ejector - the most prominent plumbing on the loco. Wasn't happy with the w/m casting, so adapted it with some copper wire, bits of tube, and some spare etchings for the plates around where it enters the boiler cladding. Still not entirely happy with the stuff on top though, I may play some more. T'other side. Nothing much to see here, move along now... And the cab. Redid the seats/toolboxes so as better to match pics I've seen of the cab, added plumbing and some gauges that came in another kit I bought s/h. Also added fall plates, (these are to scale, I may need to make them bigger), and buffing plates on the drawbox. I'll probably need to move these once I get the correct tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Is this of any use to you PM?? http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.fibbens/Drawings/Colour%20Section.jpg JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 16, 2010 Author Share Posted December 16, 2010 That's rather nice JB, thanks! I'd quite like that as an art print, not just as a technical drawing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Royal Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Hi Pinkmouse, Found you're "mojo" again I see, looking good. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 16, 2010 Author Share Posted December 16, 2010 Hi Mark, yup, as always with these things, it was stuck behind the sofa. Anyway, a teaser for tomorrow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Is this of any use to you PM?? http://homepage.ntlw...r%20Section.jpg That is a superb illustration B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 It is rather good eh!! Makes me want to build a 4f now...! JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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