Planet-saving, global warming etc

[spikey]

Whilst in the dentists' waiting room this afternoon, I had a go on a copy of the National Geographic magazine for the first time in ages, and I was surprised to find that by far the greater part of the content was all about carbon footprints, greenhouse gases, pollution, reducing emissions and whatnot.  Somehow I was not surprised to note that the very first full-page advert in the magazine was for the latest 6.6 litre V12 BMW saloon ...

[Ozexpatriate]

13 minutes ago, spikey said:

Somehow I was not surprised to note that the very first full-page advert in the magazine was for the latest 6.6 litre V12 BMW saloon ...

That's funny, but BMW could just as easily run an ad for one of their EVs.

[APOLLO]

A few years ago we were Bangkok bound aboard a Qantas 747 thundering over the Hindu Kush at 1000 km/hr (strong tailwind) - watching Al Gore in his film "An Inconvenient truce" - did I feel guilty ? - Hell NO - another beer please hostess !!

 

Off there again next month - Two Airbus A380's each way - that should put out a bit of CO2.

 

Brit15

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 that should put out a bit of CO2.

 

Just don't eat the inflight food ....

[jjb1970]

I'm waiting to be told that chunky sweaters and real ale emit more CO2 than burning coal.

[tigerburnie]

We are killing the planet, it is evident round here, but as usual, nothing will be done until it's too late, won't have much effect on me I guess, but what a mess we are leaving our grandkids.

[APOLLO]

The mess started with Watt and Stephenson etc, later Rudolf Diesel, Gottlieb von Daimler etc and it has snowballed from there over many, many years.

 

Problem is we all now live in an ever more energy / transport dependant world - and billions of others want - no - demand the western life style.

 

What is needed globally will not be achievable in my opinion. China, India USA (the BIG emitters) don't seem to be doing very much, and we in the UK are a tiny CO2 emitter compared to those. Should we shoot ourselves in the foot while they do sweet FA. ?

 

Brit15

 

 

 

[johnarcher]

26 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The mess started with Watt and Stephenson etc, later Rudolf Diesel, Gottlieb von Daimler etc and it has snowballed from there over many, many years.

 

Problem is we all now live in an ever more energy / transport dependant world - and billions of others want - no - demand the western life style.

 

What is needed globally will not be achievable in my opinion. China, India USA (the BIG emitters) don't seem to be doing very much, and we in the UK are a tiny CO2 emitter compared to those. Should we shoot ourselves in the foot while they do sweet FA. ?

 

Brit15

 

 

 

Well, I have seen suggestions that China at least is doing a good deal recently, after being a considerable polluter in the past - putting a lot into renewable energy. And, of course, our own emissions have come a bit more under control because much of the manufacture of what we buy is now happening in China rather than here - so our purchasing is part of their pollution.

USA is another matter, with a denier in charge they aren't going to do much for a while I suppose.

Of course if everyone waits until all others act nobody will ever do anything, and things do seem to be getting a bit urgent for that.

 

Of course we're not actually 'killing the planet', it will recover from us as from all sorts of catastrophes in the past, just making it less likely to support human life as we are used to it.

[Ozexpatriate]

22 minutes ago, johnarcher said:

Of course we're not actually 'killing the planet', it will recover from us as from all sorts of catastrophes in the past, just making it less likely to support human life as we are used to it.

Not just humans. Bee colony collapse is well observed but the decline in insect populations is one of the more unexpected manifestations of the current ecosystem. It's a bit disturbing since everyone thought insects would be the winners. Their decline might have a dramatic effect on many other larger species.

 

As for 'killing the planet', the extinction of the sun will do that - eventually. Otherwise it will continue and things will adapt to live on it.

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, APOLLO said:

A few years ago we were Bangkok bound aboard a Qantas 747 thundering over the Hindu Kush at 1000 km/hr (strong tailwind) - watching Al Gore in his film "An Inconvenient truce" - did I feel guilty ? - Hell NO - another beer please hostess !!

 

Off there again next month - Two Airbus A380's each way - that should put out a bit of CO2.

 

Brit15

But at least modern aircraft are significantly more fuel efficient, than their predecessors. That issue alone is enough to retire older 747's, earlier than might have been the case.

[Ian J.]

We are all the problem, whether we like it or not, or understand it or not. We all also have to be part of the solution. When we just go 'I can't make a difference so I'm not going to do anything' and continue burning up fuel excessively, we abrogate our responsibility to those who follow us. I have no children, but I still see and accept that I need to be producing as little carbon as I practically can. So, no flights that aren't necessary; walk to the local shop instead of using a car; wear a jumper rather than turn the heating up; drive conservatively rather than agressively; turn off anything electric when not in use; don't buy food that I'm not going to eat and just end up throwing away; etc., etc. It all keeps my carbon output below average (according to what stuff I've read online). If we all did such things, my limited understanding is they would cut 'first world' emissions by up to 10%, which is a start. The rest comes down to governments, companies and scientists changing things (we need something other than fossil fuels for our transport, so we need those fast charge high capacity batteries for cars sooner, not later).

[johnarcher]

8 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Not just humans. Bee colony collapse is well observed but the decline in insect populations is one of the more unexpected manifestations of the current ecosystem. It's a bit disturbing since everyone thought insects would be the winners. Their decline might have a dramatic effect on many other larger species.

 

As for 'killing the planet', the extinction of the sun will do that - eventually. Otherwise it will continue and things will adapt to live on it.

Bee, and other similar creatures', extinction is surely also disturbing because they pollinate so many things we want to grow to eat.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, johnarcher said:

USA is another matter, with a denier in charge they aren't going to do much for a while I suppose.

 

Even with the orange idiot in charge apparently renewables in the US employ more people than the coal industry.

[caradoc]

We can moan about what other people/Governments/Big Business/China/the USA etc should do, but each individual has to make changes themself, the most beneficial of course being not to have any children. Failing that, we could drive less, fly less, eat less meat and recycle more, and follow the example of the children bunking off school to protest about climate change, who are all now obviously walking or cycling to school, no matter what the weather, turning down the heating at home and putting on an extra jumper instead, and holidaying this summer in Skegness or Great Yarmouth rather than Spain or Florida. Or we could follow Emma Thomson's example and tell others to fly less while continuing to criss-cross the world (First Class of course) ourselves.

[APOLLO]

China is (overall) doing sweet FA.

 

Watch this, especially the new mega huge opencast coal mine and new rail link to the NEW coal fired power stations - look at that new freight yard - all for coal. From 19m 35 secs on. No stopping this lot.

 

 

Pales what the UK does / emits into insignificance.

 

What pees me off are folk like Dame whatshername manning the pink boat at the recent climate change protests in London - seen drinking champagne a week later in first class on a BA flight to New York, similarly the young guy interviewed on TV who "passionately believes in action" again photos of flights to Switzerland for skiing holidays. "Do as I say, not as I do" is the new mantra of these kind of people.

 

Of course conserve energy etc I do - too bl**dy expensive to waste these days, but I ain't intending in a cave (with a wood fire !!!!).

 

Our "leaders" are clueless, banning gas central heating in new homes in a couple of years - but it's OK to generate around 50% of our electricity with Natural Gas, is one amongst many other similar silly decisions.

 

Many problems ahead, and vast investment  and change is needed here in the UK, Transport, Housing, Jobs, Energy, Food etc - The basics of life.

 

Can / Will the powers that be deliver ? - I increasingly doubt it.

 

Brit15

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by APOLLO

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Our "leaders" are clueless, banning gas central heating in new homes in a couple of years - but it's OK to generate around 50% of our electricity with Natural Gas, is one amongst many other similar silly decisions.

 

Gas central heating leaves you stuck with gas. Electricity generation can and does move towards renewables having already moved all the way away from coal.

If you use your electricity to heat your house with a heat pump you only need about a third of the energy of heating directly. Not to mention it's entirely possible to insulate a house so well that it requires no heating at all.

 

Not so silly then.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

Even with the orange idiot in charge apparently renewables in the US employ more people than the coal industry.

Didn't I read last week something about a renewable energy plant, in the US? From memory, it was in a state that is one of Trump's stronghold, yet the plant was very agreeable with the locals.

 

Google's not helping to find this newly opened plant!

[melmerby]

If, I say If, legislators put the right rules in place the UK could do a lot about it's (admittedly small) affect on the world's problems.

But banning diesel/petrol road vehicles whilst not electrifying trains and chopping incentives for solar panels etc. is not the way to go.

 

Electric cars?  Wouldn't mind one, but the pitiful number of charge points is a big problem, not to say the UK's lack of sufficient low carbon electricity generation to support a major shift to electric vehicles.

We need a radical change: e.g Buy an electric car but batteries are hired ready charged. (The new car cost would include one full charge.)

When on a long journey you "fill up"  by swapping your empty battery for a full one and pay a fee as you would when you fill the tank with a petrochemical.

Any remaining charge would be credited against the "new" battery. This would require batteries to be available in a limited number of sizes and larger vehicles might have more than one.

 

We could ban palm oil from products, there are better alternatives.

Palm oil plantations are devoid of much wildlife and forests have been cleared to make way for them and it's still going on.

 

We could all eat less meat. Cattle rearing for meat is increasing rapidly in many countries and is a major producer of greenhouse gases as well as a catalyst for forest destruction. It's one of the least efficient ways of producing protein for human consumption.

 

Brazil is a classic problem. Home to vast (not quite so vast these days) rainforests which are part of the natural regulator of the climate.

Corrupt leaders in Brazil have allowed illegal logging/cattle farming to flourish even though it's against the country's environmental laws.

 

Population: This needs to be regulated as increased population is a major driver of climate change.

Unfortunately many religions actively encourage large families and politicians are sh*t scared of doing anything that might offend certain groups.

 

Sorry folks the planet is going down the pan and it ain't going to stop anytime soon.

I pity the generations that come after me. I try to do my bit but many people couldn't care less, blaming everyone else

Edited May 10, 2019 by melmerby

[TheQ]

Al Gores film has so many holes in it's "Scientific Truth" that it should be listed as a comedy.

 

Insulate my house to require practically no energy?.. would cost about a 1/3 of it's value if not more. I do believe all new houses should be built that way, as during construction it doesn't cost that much more..

Most of the kids bunking off school to protest were probably driven there by their parents in 4X4s who went on to the big protests in London.

Those of use who work can't afford to take off two weeks to go and protest..

 

I've never flown anywhere on Holiday, in fact I've never flown anywhere except to go to school or work (note school was council). I've not GONE on holiday in 49 years, it's always been go home  or for the the last 20 years going sailing for a week in the summer 10 miles from home..

[Reorte]

14 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Al Gores film has so many holes in it's "Scientific Truth" that it should be listed as a comedy.

 

Insulate my house to require practically no energy?.. would cost about a 1/3 of it's value if not more. I do believe all new houses should be built that way, as during construction it doesn't cost that much more..

 

Not sure I'd like to live in such a sealed-up house anyway. I'll happily put more insulation in than I've currently got (it's on my to-do list) - and put a jumper on before I put the heating on - but you'll only get me out of my Victorian house and in to a new one by dragging me kicking and screaming. I find them incredibly depressing places to be.

 

In any case it's all very well going on about heating and flying and so forth but the most effective thing is to have fewer children.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Reorte

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Insulate my house to require practically no energy?.. would cost about a 1/3 of it's value if not more. I do believe all new houses should be built that way, as during construction it doesn't cost that much more..

 

About 10% extra materials cost apparently.

[Karhedron]

11 hours ago, APOLLO said:

What is needed globally will not be achievable in my opinion. China, India USA (the BIG emitters) don't seem to be doing very much, and we in the UK are a tiny CO2 emitter compared to those. Should we shoot ourselves in the foot while they do sweet FA. ?

 

We don't need to see it as shooting ourselves in the foot. Energy usage is swinging towards renewables. By cutting the use of fossil fuels and actively driving investment in renewables, we can put ourselves ahead of the curve. As well as setting an example, we will be a leader in an increasingly valuable technology sector. Manufacturing, exports, jobs, IP. All things a balanced economy needs.

 

Done well, investing in renewables is exactly that. An investment.

[Mike Storey]

There is a big difference between the arguments:

 

1. The "hoax" brigade, who keep trying to imply there is nothing going wrong, and nothing to do with humans anyway. Almost entirely funded behind the scenes by massive carbon-based energy suppliers, or by nation states who believe they have a right to do as much damage as the developed world has done for centuries (and not a little corruption thrown in, in various cases).

 

2. The rest of us, who feel little will be done about it anyway, when seeing what is being done to the planet elsewhere.

 

The big problem is that so much energy is being wasted fighting the flat-earth arguments of group 1, that it takes away from the time and effort needed to accelerate group 2's concerns. It is hard to see just how much more additional scientific, empirical and social health evidence is needed before Argument 1 disappears.

 

One big hope is that green energy, energy conservation and changes to western diets, are now becoming commercially viable (albeit with some state financial incentives, although reducing). A lot of that comes from large numbers of individuals making choices (whether over lifestyle, political voting, spending decisions etc), howsoever little the impact by each individual. This is probably the only way left.

 

[Classsix T]

I've never flown, or owned a motorised vehicle and don't intend to increase the global population. 

 

Now if you don't mind, I'll enjoy my bacon sarnie in peace thankyouverymuch. 

 

C6T. 

[chris p bacon]

57 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

Now if you don't mind, I'll enjoy my bacon sarnie in peace thankyouverymuch. 

 

C6T. 

 

Is it organic ?...