Minerva - O Gauge Class 14 announced

[73080]

I respectfully disagree.

 

The Class 47 shows streaking on its pale green panel, so is illustrating what a weathered side looks like like.  D9500 also shows an element of weathering.

 

If you were to say that after several months in service, the too colours started to show less differences, I would tend to agree with you.

 

That said, I stand by my statement that the ex-works colours were very different.

[hmrspaul]

25 minutes ago, 73080 said:

I respectfully disagree.

 

The Class 47 shows streaking on its pale green panel, so is illustrating what a weathered side looks like like.  D9500 also shows an element of weathering.

 

If you were to say that after several months in service, the too colours started to show less differences, I would tend to agree with you.

 

That said, I stand by my statement that the ex-works colours were very different.

I don't remember the colour of 95xx but that photo of D9505 certainly reminds me totally of the colour of D1510 when I saw it brand new fully lit entering Kings Cross. Huge slap side really showed up the colour difference and simply beautiful. Fantastic colours and very different greens. As to that Railmatch colour, like many paints sold to modellers just wrong. 

 

Paul

[F-UnitMad]

2 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

As to that Railmatch colour, like many paints sold to modellers just wrong. 

I'll quite happily accept your word on that. I've been looking at Railmatch and could not reconcile their version of Sherwood Green with any photos of two-tone green diesels.

I think I used Precision Paints Sherwood Green when I did my PRMRP Class 14, but that is enamel which I can't use in the house. Been looking online at acrylic paints but not sure any other versions of Sherwood Green are any more accurate than Railmatch's...  

[73080]

As it appears that not all model paint manufacturers have the same colour for Sherwood Green, may be British Standards can be of help.

 

This link shows the British Standard BS4800 colour chart - Sherwood Green BS 12D45 is to be found on the left, 16th row down.

https://prontopaints.co.uk/bs-4800-colour-chart/

 

To my eye, the colour two rows above it in the chart (Willow aka Green Mist - BS 12B17) looks more like the colour of the cab of D9505 in the above photograph, than does Sherwood Green.

 

But as I stated earlier, different people perceive colours differently, especially when it is shades of green.

 

Here is another BS4800 chart - whilst there are very slight colour differences from the previous link when viewed on my computer screen, fundamentally the colours are the same.

https://www.e-paint.co.uk/BS-4800-colour-chart.asp

[Hal Nail]

15 hours ago, 73080 said:

The preserved Class 14 locos in green livery seem to have varying liveries for the cab area.

Seems a bit unlikely we will reach a consensus on this here then.... I'll check back in a week and see how you are all getting on!

[F-UnitMad]

Finally got round to Opening The Box today, somewhat deflated by knowing what's wrong.

I wonder if the problem with the cab green is down to relying on digital cameras & screens, especially communicating with the manufacturer halfway around the world?

The cab green is not as pale as it is showing in photos on this Thread, but my photos of the model are showing it as pale as the others on here 

Here it is next to my PRMRP one...

 

 

 

In reality the cab green is more like the shade it shows on the end, rather than on the side. In effect, ALL the greens are showing lighter in photos than they are in reality. Interesting the roof grey is darker than I painted mine. It is geared a teeny bit slower than my Minerva 8750 Pannier, isn't as quiet, waddles slightly at higher speeds, and needs a spell on the rolling road. I will also disable all the way-too-bright lights, which I usually do with my UK engines.
I will repaint the cab, change the incorrect roundels, and have a think about the incorrect cab door, which fortunately is only wrong on one side.

One question, given there are essentially two driving positions, which was the more common seat for the driver?, or did he change sides depending on direction of travel?

Edited February 10, 2022 by F-UnitMad

[Andrew Young]

On 08/02/2022 at 07:55, Ressaldar said:

This is the photo in Robert Carroll's book that I am referring too

 

D9505_Swindon_16-8-64 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Thanks Robert for the heads up for the transfer process.

 

regards

 

Mike

Thanks for finally finding a photo of a new one that shows that Minerva really aren’t that far off with their colour match for the cab.

 

As my father would give chapter and verse on, colour film from the sixties is very unstable with its colour over the years and different manufacturers of film behaved in greatly different ways. 
 

Taking that photo above, just look how dark the dark green on the bonnets is being depicted, showing how much of a minefield this is. 
 

Looks to me on the various photos that 1) the cab colour weathered darker over time and 2) the actual colour isn’t as nice a green as people would like it to be. 
 

Andrew

[F-UnitMad]

Well, Bullet bitten in the Servant's wing of F-Unit Towers....

My Teddy Bear is in bits, and cab removed for remedial works, especially the 'wrong' door. Above the handles have been removed, and pencil lines taken across the door for location marks.

Below, the new lower recessed part has been drilled & filed out, backed with thin plasticard. The upper handle plate is another small bit of plasticard, and the original handles glued back in place. Original holes filled in with putty.

The roundel has also been removed with 1200-grit wet'n'dry paper, used very wet!!

 

I found one of the connecting rod retaining screws on the jackshaft counterweight was working loose, & has had to be tightened up. A bit more lube on the worm & gears has also helped smooth the running as well.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

15 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Well, Bullet bitten in the Servant's wing of F-Unit Towers....

My Teddy Bear is in bits, and cab removed for remedial works, especially the 'wrong' door. Above the handles have been removed, and pencil lines taken across the door for location marks.

Below, the new lower recessed part has been drilled & filed out, backed with thin plasticard. The upper handle plate is another small bit of plasticard, and the original handles glued back in place. Original holes filled in with putty.

The roundel has also been removed with 1200-grit wet'n'dry paper, used very wet!!

 

I found one of the connecting rod retaining screws on the jackshaft counterweight was working loose, & has had to be tightened up. A bit more lube on the worm & gears has also helped smooth the running as well.

 

Looking good,I shall be doing the  same with mine  as and when I get round to it.

 

Rob

[F-UnitMad]

Adding the crew....
If you want a Driver who's arm is resting on the desk controls, some modifications are needed. The cab floor & seats are one molding, but the desk is attached to the cab wall, and lifts up with the cab on removal. So you could sit a driver on the seat as supplied but his arms would have to be by his sides to clear the desk as it lifts.
I have changed this. First the cab interior wall & desk had to be released from the cab itself, they are only lightly glued in place. Then I removed the one seat from the cab floor, and glued a piece of plastic angle to the side of the desk. The driver (an Omen Figures model) is glued on the angle.
Once dry & solid the whole lot can be fitted back inside the cab.

On my PRMRP 14 the one cab door was open with the Secondman standing in the doorway. Moving the handles was enough hassle on this one, so he's still in the doorway footwell, but it must be cold outside as he hasn't opened the door yet...

The cab wall can't just slide up inside the shell, and the last photo shows why - there are cutouts in the cab floor, to allow for the locating blocks that are in each corner of the cab shell, that the cab screws to the footplate with.

[pauliebanger]

Hi everyone,

 

I promised some photos of the sound installation but not had much free time lately. However, F-UnitMad's progress has shamed me into action. LOL.

 

Here's the position I suggested for the speaker installation, though it was not without it's potential dangers. (trapped or chaffed wiring amongst them)

 

I designed a speaker enclosure to make best use of the space available and took the opportunity to include an integral cover for the gear train.

 

 

 

My good friends at Alz Soundz printed them up. You can see the complex shapes required here. Better than sticking in whatever i-phone or standard-issue speaker will fit, and allowed me to optimise the sound project for the actual speakers to be deployed in the production model

 

 

To protect the additional wires passing over the flywheel the cover on the right was also included as part of the sound fitted specification. Dual 18mm x 13mm speaker drivers will handle the sound levels nicely. 

 

 

Here's the full installation fitted to the chassis.  The white JSP socket visible on the main PCB (just in front of the ZIMO MX645P22 sound decoder) is where all the wires for the individual lighting PCBs are plugged. This arrangement means that the body can easily be removed and the 'umbilical' can be detached. Notice the number of solder pads on the main PCB - every pinout from the PluX 22 interface has an easily accessable connection, including for a Stay Alive pack (which can be fitted below the PCB).

 

 

Fially a shot to show how the extra volume available in the well between the chassis frames was utilised to enhance the speaker installation.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Edited February 13, 2022 by pauliebanger

[F-UnitMad]

Paul, that flywheel cover would be a good thing even for us 12v DC Luddites - the orange & grey motor wires look perilously close to the flywheel otherwise!

Without looking at my model right now, I just wonder at which end your speaker instalation is, and if you've aĺlowed room for the fan, if it's in the long hood end?

[pauliebanger]

28 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Paul, that flywheel cover would be a good thing even for us 12v DC Luddites - the orange & grey motor wires look perilously close to the flywheel otherwise!

Without looking at my model right now, I just wonder at which end your speaker instalation is, and if you've aĺlowed room for the fan, if it's in the long hood end?

Let's say I had a long time to ensure that it all fits and works as it should. LOL.

 

The speakers are in the engine room, under the fan with no modification to the model. The sound, therefore comes from the front. It was specifically designed to not interfere with the easy removal of body from chassis, a feature of the model's basic design, employed in all Minerva models.

 

Anyway, even DC officionado's can benefit from the sound installation - quite a lot of the sounds are available on DC, as are the lighting functions and Stay Alive management - something only possible on DC as a standard feature with ZIMO decoders.

 

If you feel you need one of those flywheel covers, have a word with Chris at Minerva. (but perhaps give him chance to ship other peoples' models first).

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Edited February 13, 2022 by pauliebanger

[Adam_W]

I found that my sound fitted class 14 wouldn't operate on DC straight from the box. The sounds would ramp up with voltage but there was no movement from the motor. Same issue occurred with a second example passed to me for numbering. Both operate fine on DCC. I found that changing CV13 from 19 (as supplied) to 1 fixed the issue and allows it to run on DC with sound operational. Setting CV 13 to 0 will allow operation on DC without sound. Hope this helps anyone experiencing similar issues.

 

Also good to see that the stay alive works on DC as well as DCC. 

 

Thanks

 

Adam

[F-UnitMad]

Getting the correct cab colour is baffling me, not helped by the problem phone cameras have correctly rendering shades of green (& blue, for that matter).

I've had some acrylic colours off ebay; GWR/BR Green, Sherwood Green & Duck Egg Blue.

Along with my PRMRP 14, here's what they all look like (sort of!!)

[Scrooge]

7 hours ago, Adam_W said:

I found that my sound fitted class 14 wouldn't operate on DC straight from the box. The sounds would ramp up with voltage but there was no movement from the motor. Same issue occurred with a second example passed to me for numbering. Both operate fine on DCC. I found that changing CV13 from 19 (as supplied) to 1 fixed the issue and allows it to run on DC with sound operational. Setting CV 13 to 0 will allow operation on DC without sound. Hope this helps anyone experiencing similar issues.

 

Also good to see that the stay alive works on DC as well as DCC. 

 

Thanks

 

Adam

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the information. My sound fitted class 14 arrived yesterday and I have spent today playing with it. I was getting worried when I found it would not move on DC but had sound. Everything worked fine on DCC. You have saved me an email to Minerva as I am just getting started in O gauge and DCC.

 

Is it just me or has anybody else noted that the head code numbers supplied seem a bit large for the glass? I presume an 8Vxx may have been a typical code.

 

[Hal Nail]

15 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Getting the correct cab colour is baffling me, not helped by the problem phone cameras have correctly rendering shades of green (& blue, for that matter).

I've had some acrylic colours off ebay; GWR/BR Green, Sherwood Green & Duck Egg Blue.

Along with my PRMRP 14, here's what they all look like (sort of!!)

The cab at the very top looks best out of those for me!

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

47 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

The cab at the very top looks best out of those for me!

 

 

 But it doesn't look good here... (apologies for repeat photo)

The real thing just did not have that contrast.

[Adam_W]

22 hours ago, Scrooge said:

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the information. My sound fitted class 14 arrived yesterday and I have spent today playing with it. I was getting worried when I found it would not move on DC but had sound. Everything worked fine on DCC. You have saved me an email to Minerva as I am just getting started in O gauge and DCC.

 

Is it just me or has anybody else noted that the head code numbers supplied seem a bit large for the glass? I presume an 8Vxx may have been a typical code.

 

The headcodes will fit but you do need to cut them very close to the edges of the numbers (i.e. almost touching) and chamfering the outer corners helps a bit. I stuck them to the back of the 'glass' using double sided tape otherwise they deformed. A firm press held them in place without any glue . Some of them are deliberately wonky as this is how they looked in almost every photo I have seen. 

[TEDDYBEAR D9521]

A few photos of my Minerva Class 14s ,cabs re sprayed locos numbered and weathered.

Edited February 21, 2022 by TEDDYBEAR D9521
Update

[F-UnitMad]

2 hours ago, TEDDYBEAR D9521 said:

A few photos of mine cabs re sprayed locos numbered and weathered.

I'll ask the Idiot Questions. 

What colour? And which manufacturer?  They look spot on.  

[TEDDYBEAR D9521]

The Locos are o gauge Minerva Class 14s, cabs have been removed and re sprayed to Sherwood Green by Rail Match, locos also weathered.

[TEDDYBEAR D9521]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

I'll ask the Idiot Questions. 

What colour? And which manufacturer?  They look spot on.  

Sherwood green by Rail Match , 

[F-UnitMad]

Railmatch?? I am surprised - it was posted on here before that the Railmatch Sherwood Green was nothing like the light green for two-tone green diesels - which it isn't, but that shade is supposed to be Sherwood Green!!!

But it looks spot on for the Class 14, at least as they were in the '60s, from photos I've found. Off to order some now...

[Western Star]

On 17/02/2022 at 15:52, Adam_W said:

I found that my sound fitted class 14 wouldn't operate on DC straight from the box. The sounds would ramp up with voltage but there was no movement from the motor. Same issue occurred with a second example passed to me for numbering. Both operate fine on DCC. I found that changing CV13 from 19 (as supplied) to 1 fixed the issue and allows it to run on DC with sound operational. Setting CV 13 to 0 will allow operation on DC without sound. Hope this helps anyone experiencing similar issues.

 

Also good to see that the stay alive works on DC as well as DCC.

Just so I can understand this comment...  the loco has sound and the sound is available when the loco is running on DC; does this mean that the loco has a DCC chip fitted?  Is the chip from Zimo or ESU?

 

thank you, Graham