Outbased Diesel shunters in the 1970s - how long without fueling?

[Michael Edge]

That's what I thought but they could have used the Bootle branch from the docks. I'm not sure when Waterloo tunnel was closed but that was used earlier for MDHB movements, I have a photo of a Hudswell being delivered this way.

[andyman7]

On 05/06/2019 at 12:39, dvdlcs said:

I remember reading somewhere years ago - so I've no idea of the source - that the benefit of the diesel shunter was noticed almost immediately with the quoted example of a steam shunter having to stop for water (coal wasn't mentioned) twice a day whereas a diesel shunter could work at a remote yard for a week before requiring fuel.

 

But as others have said the duration between fuelling would, like anything else, depend on the use that was made of it in between fuelling.

 

With respect to trips on the mainline, I know that 08s were slow (20mph then later 15mph) but the 09s and the 03s were geared higher, around 27mph. But back then the railway had (a) more track capacity and (b) slower moving trains - slotting a shunter move among class 8 and 9 freights would be somewhat simpler then rather than now.

 

Not sure how the 0-4-0 diesel shunters (01s, 02s, etc.) fared in terms of top speed and 'comfort' when travelling on the mainline, although perhaps they didn't as they were more likely to be used locally to their home base rather than remotely. Though someone will now tell me (us) otherwise... thinking while typing, the Scottish 06s could have been based some distance from their home depots...

According to the notes in the instruction sheet for the Kitmaster 350hp shunter (see avatar for picture of same) the fuel tank has a capacity of 668 gallons 'sufficient for 10 to 15 days shunting work before refuelling...'

[Dava]

Some diesel shunters sat around and did little  work in the 1970s. There were too many of them. Eg D4141 sat in the Motorail bay at Carlisle in 1972, seemed it rarely moved. Now in the NRM collection. There were other 08s as station shunters, refueled at Upperby at the time.

 

Dava

[The Johnster]

21 hours ago, andyman7 said:

According to the notes in the instruction sheet for the Kitmaster 350hp shunter (see avatar for picture of same) the fuel tank has a capacity of 668 gallons 'sufficient for 10 to 15 days shunting work before refuelling...'

This presumably means the more or less continuous marshalling yard shunting that the locos were originally designed for, initially allocated to, and phenomenally successful at.  That they became a general shunting loco, taking over from 0-6-0 steam locos with much longer wheelbases and larger diameter wheels that were better when it came to trip work or keeping out of the way on running lines generally is probably down to the intention to build Type 1s that could do this economically.  In the event they didn't, because only one class was reliable and successful, the Class 20, which had to hunt in pairs to pull a useful load, but nobody knew that in the early 50s.

 

The Southern had an arguably more far-sighted approach, having had some experience with both 350hp and a 500hp 'road switcher' type, and this was the genesis of the 09s.  The WR was still plugging away at the idea with the D95xx in 1965, a 40mph 650hp loco to replace the 57xx and 94xx panniers.  They failed to cover themselves in glory; in fact all too often they failed to make it through the turn.  

[Nearholmer]

"....... the Class 20, which had to hunt in pairs to pull a useful load,......."

 

Hmmmm .......... but that wasn't through any failing of the locos, it was the disappearance of Type 1 traffic, what the Americans might call "light road-switcher" traffic. At the time, something in the order of 800hp was thought of as perfectly good going for the duty, which was to replace often rather antiquated 0-6-0 on pick-up goods trains, and to operate stopping passenger trains consisting of a few coaches. 

 

Steam locos are notoriously difficult to pin down in terms of equivalent horsepower ratings for comparison purposes, but they were surprisingly feeble by modern reckoning, which is evident if you look at typical timings, and the fact that for passenger work 175-225hp per passenger coach seems to have been the rule of thumb for diesel and electric designers in the 1950s, who were largely looking to equal steam timings, rather than accelerate services.

 

Class 20 in pairs as a low-axleweight, very sure-footed combo, with lots of braking power, is very interesting ......... I've never worked-out whether it was a design intention, or something stumbled upon by happy accident. They were certainly used like that quite early in their lives, so maybe it was intent.

[Albie the plumber]

On 04/06/2019 at 19:06, Steamport Southport said:

 

I couldn't find it myself. Probably under a daft thread name or about a specific shed.

 

I'll have another look.

 

 

Jason

The pic of the '08 being refuelled by a road tanker shows Newport's Pill sheds, primarily a steam shed based within the Newport Docks complex .

Closed in the mid 1960's with the demise of steam and the opening of Ebbw Junction diesel depot in '66.

This and a few other pics can be seen on the 'Quiet Womans Row ' site 

 

HTH 

Albie 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Albie the plumber

[adb968008]

Bolton Station had a class 08 in the late 80’s/early 90’s.

 

it would spend a couple of weeks at Bolton shunting GUVs for the regular Bolton GUS parcels, and otherwise sit it out in between plat 4&5.

 

 

08613 doing the honours at Bolton here..

 

 

It was a Longsight 08 and changeover would be via Victoria and Ashburys, rather than through Deansgate & Piccadilly.

 

08624 doing the LE turn

 

One one occasion I got two LOs shunters 08673 Piccadilly (intercity livery) and 08676  at Victoria, which wasnt known for its 08 presence in the 1990’s, as an incident occurred with one of them running out of fuel during the change over from Bolton, and ending up in the siding by Victoria West signal box to arrange return to Longsight by the replacement, which subsequently needed its own refuelling before going back to Bolton.

 

And the errant pair.

 

 

i guess that puts it at a c50 mile round trip needed in the tank, before starting work.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by adb968008