Michael Edge's workbench

[Daddyman]

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

The tender beading is etched - but it's actually scrap from LOR structure etches. 

Looks a tricky job, very nicely executed. 

[Michael Edge]

Bearing in mind how many of these I have built now, it's fairly easy. If you do the beading half etched it's really difficult to keep the tender sides flat and since they never bend where they should do flat is better than wrinkly. The tender tank is made from .012" shim steel, in 4mm scale I would have used .010", the hardest part of the job is forming the flare at the top. I built locos routinely for many years like this and had to cut the coupling rods from steel as well, plain ones were fairly easy, for fluted rods I used to mill the flute in a steel plate first and then saw it out. Etching has made some jobs much quicker and others much more accurate but this has been n interesting comparison.

[Simon Moore]

Mike how did the tests with the Thomas hill steelman chassis go? I am interested because i want one of the 0-6-0 variants.

[Michael Edge]

The Bullant replacement went well, that one is working in one I'm building. I assembled the all compensated one but haven't figured out a way of driving it yet.

I found a supply of .5 module gears and this 99p Chinese motor provides more than enough power for this steel weight.

This is as far as I got with the compensated frame (it was actually drawn for the 7mm version - as yet unbuilt), in P4 there would be room for chain drive with a narrow gearbox but that would need wheels for 1/8th axles (Gibson do some of these). Alternatively I thought it might work as an A1A with two small motors and gearboxes. We do have some of these etches but no loco etches at the moment and none in the order which is arriving next week.

[Simon Moore]

10 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

The Bullant replacement went well, that one is working in one I'm building. I assembled the all compensated one but haven't figured out a way of driving it yet.

I found a supply of .5 module gears and this 99p Chinese motor provides more than enough power for this steel weight.

This is as far as I got with the compensated frame (it was actually drawn for the 7mm version - as yet unbuilt), in P4 there would be room for chain drive with a narrow gearbox but that would need wheels for 1/8th axles (Gibson do some of these). Alternatively I thought it might work as an A1A with two small motors and gearboxes. We do have some of these etches but no loco etches at the moment and none in the order which is arriving next week.

 

Mike when you get a full set in let me know i will have one off you. 1/8 axles will be fine & i am sure i can cobble together a chain drive of some sort. I think high level do a narrow gearbox suitable for this kind of drive. Mine will be in P4 so it will have all the room from p4 spacers. That said an a1a set up would be another good set up with 2 small branchline's boxes. The bonnets would hide them nicely.

[hayfield]

On 15/03/2021 at 12:37, Michael Edge said:

Next steam loco is likely to be the LSW C14 but these aren't usually planned as such - more a case of spin off from my own work. 

 

Michael

 

When please ?

[Michael Edge]

I'm not promising any dates for anything at the moment and the pressure of the exhibition calendar is non existent for now.

[Michael Edge]

Back to Hecate yesterday.

The cab front is the first part soldered to the footplate, with the frames bolted in it was butted up to the support for the cab floor, seen here just behind the motor. After checking that it was central across the footplate the sides were added, I've left the infill in the doorway to keep the opening correct. Wheels, motor and gearbox are finally fitted and won't be disturbed again, I've checked the quartering with the coupling rods in one piece for now. The cab floor is soldered to the top of the frames now.

All the detail on the bunker back added now, it won't get any more accessible later. The lamp brackets are in rather an odd position on this loco, bunker front fitted - again with the frames bolted in to set its position, I had to put the bunker side handrails on because the front pillars are only just inside the bunker front. The cab back goes in last, after fitting all the bars (from .3mm n/s wire) - they really went to town on these, not content with the usual vertical bars. I usually make the cab back like this with legs down to the footplate to make sure it comes out at the same height as the front - on locos with a bigger bunker these can be cut out later but they won't be very visible on Hecate so they can stay there.

The bars are done with the cab back separate so that they can be properly cleaned off on the inside, otherwise glazing would be a bit difficult. The tank front is in one piece to set the width, the central bar will be removed when the boiler is fitted later, the rebate all round the top is where the tank top (again in one piece) will fit.

Another view from the back with the cab back in place.

Last view for now, the top of the bunker is a separate curved plate, half etched to make it easier to bend and fit.

[Jack P]

That looks really excellent Mike.

 

Those bars on the window are pretty full on, is each one 8 seperate bits, all bent and soldered to shape, or is it an etch?

 

Also are those Ultrascale wheels? They look very high quality, I like the indented axle ends. 

[Daddyman]

20 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Back to Hecate yesterday.

The straightness of that long tank-side joint to the footplate is impressive, all the more so as you don't seem to be using a baseplate bolted to the footplate to keep the tanks straight. 

 

How did you get it so straight? Did you start and one end, or in the middle? Did you do a bit and then leave time for cooling to prevent buckling?   

[Adam]

9 hours ago, Jack P said:

Also are those Ultrascale wheels? They look very high quality, I like the indented axle ends. 

They look like Gibsons (Ultrascale centres are usually grey). Nice work Mike, though Hecate was a strange beast. 
 

Adam
 

 

[Jack P]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

They look like Gibsons (Ultrascale centres are usually grey). Nice work Mike, though Hecate was a strange beast. 
 

Adam

 

I've not seen ultrascales in the flesh, I assumed from the indented axle ends they were them. It occurs to me now that Mike possibly added the indentations. 

[Michael Edge]

To answer the questions above:

Yes the window bars are each 8 pieces of .3mm n/s wire bent and threaded through etched holes. I did the vertical ones first, the horizontal ones over them.

They are Gibson wheels, I don't normally use Ultrascale which are very good but the very devil to keep on the axles. I had to shorten the axles a bit (quite common with Gibsons) so since they were on the lathe I drilled centres in them.

Keeping the tank sides straight is very much a matter of heat management, there's no baseplate in this etch, it's no being designed as a kit for anyone else to build. First the sides are tacked in place by the cab front which was already placed centrally, next small tacks at the bunker end and halfway along the tank, checking with verniers that the distance from the footplate edge is constant. The bunker front was also used as a gauge from time to time, last piece fitted was the tank front, again with small tack joints, this locates in a half etch rebate on the tank sides. A ruler along the whole length then to check that it was all straight and the tack joints gradually and separately joined up, checking all the time. Next piece in was the either the bunker front or back, I can't remember which, cab back a lot later.

[PenrithBeacon]

I notice you're using Markits basic crankpins

[Daddyman]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Keeping the tank sides straight is very much a matter of heat management, there's no baseplate in this etch, it's no being designed as a kit for anyone else to build. First the sides are tacked in place by the cab front which was already placed centrally, next small tacks at the bunker end and halfway along the tank, checking with verniers that the distance from the footplate edge is constant. The bunker front was also used as a gauge from time to time, last piece fitted was the tank front, again with small tack joints, this locates in a half etch rebate on the tank sides. A ruler along the whole length then to check that it was all straight and the tack joints gradually and separately joined up, checking all the time. Next piece in was the either the bunker front or back, I can't remember which, cab back a lot later.

Thanks, Mike. But doesn't tacking first, and then joining up the seams lead to buckling, because the metal can't stretch out (being held by the next tack along?) The answer is obviously  "no", given the straightness of what you've produced, but presumably that's down to "heat management" - pausing after each length to let the expansion settle down?  

Edited April 4, 2021 by Daddyman

[Michael Edge]

8 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I notice you're using Markits basic crankpins

They are what I always use, the "deluxe" ones with huge loose bushes are an engineering nonsense. A full size crankpin is a plain steel rod usually about 4" diameter or so, 1mm is fairly close to this, the coupling rods do have bushes but they are pressed in to them for a bearing surface.

6 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Thanks, Mike. But doesn't tacking first, and then joining up the seams lead to buckling, because the metal can't stretch out (being held by the next tack along?) The answer is obviously  "no", given the straightness of what you've produced, but presumably that's down to "heat management" - pausing after each length to let the expansion settle down?  

I think you've just answered your own question - that's what I mean by heat management.

[Simon Moore]

Mike i am interested in the motor you are using. It's a high level gearbox but what is the motor you are using? Is it something that screws to the motor mount or have you soldered it on?

[Michael Edge]

They are fairly readily available on Ebay - I think they may be used in some Hornby locos but I'm not very familiar with rtr stuff. There are no screw holes in the end so it's just soldered on to the gearbox. I've used a few of these motors now, they run quite fast but smooth and quiet, generally need a fairly high gear ratio, this one is a 60:1 Roadrunner+.

[Barclay]

On 05/04/2021 at 16:48, Michael Edge said:

They are fairly readily available on Ebay - I think they may be used in some Hornby locos but I'm not very familiar with rtr stuff. There are no screw holes in the end so it's just soldered on to the gearbox. I've used a few of these motors now, they run quite fast but smooth and quiet, generally need a fairly high gear ratio, this one is a 60:1 Roadrunner+.

Pleased to see this - I have a couple of these motors bought a while ago from China and you have given me the confidence to use them. 

[Michael Edge]

A bit more on Hecate yesterday.

Cab complete now and roof soldered on, the reverser is the one from our Hunslet 15" kit (we have plenty of them) in the absence of any photos of it - the top of the lever is just visible in one photo I have but that's all. Cab beading from 30swg brass wire, the flat parts are etched as are the plated in coal rails. Unusually there is no beading along the top of the tanks.

I usually make tank tops in one piece with bars across which are cut away later, this is the easiest way to make sure the tanks are vertical and parallel.

This is about the best I could do with the bent S&D 4-4-0, it was made from steel which produced a problem. The joint between the footplate angle and the footplate turned out to be rather weak and I couldn't straighten it properly with removing the angle completely. It cracked off a bit and had to be soldered, resulting in some damage to the blue paint but at least the lining wasn't disturbed - I'll rredo some of the blue if I can match the paint well enough.

 

 

 

 

[Tony Teague]

Surprisingly, since I follow at least two other threads of yours, I had not found this one until now.

As a non-, or very limited, builder myself and having just worked all the way through it, one can't help to be impressed by both the variety and quality, plus the volume, of what you produce.

I shall now follow avidly!

Tony

[Michael Edge]

Glad you got there in the end! More on Hecate tomorrow, today has been entirely taken up with kit stuff.

[Michael Edge]

I made the boiler for Hecate yesterday and got it fitted today.

Boiler and smokebox thickener rolled from .010" brass sheet, cladding band positions marked on in the flat first. The smokebox is etched, the wrapper is half etched to leave the rivets and so bends easily by hand. The smokebox is turned round in this photo but it slides neatly on to the end of the boiler.

Soldered on now with the upper parts of the main frames added alongside the smokebox. Cladding bands added in .002" copper, the loco will be unlined black, if they had been lined they would have gone on with tape after painting. I put the smokebox front handrail on while it was easier to get to the inside. Along the tanks a small but significant change can be seen, Hecate is being built in its final condition and it looks as if the external angle holding the tanks and bunker to the footplate was re-fitted with very prominent rivets. I had intended to ignore the horizontal part of this angle and just add the plain vertical part with tape before painting, fortunately I have plenty of this rivet strip left over from the Liverpool Overhead Railway structure and it looks just right for this. 

Bolted back together and on the track, that will be all for this week but it's all downhill now that the boiler is on. Steps can go on next now I don't need the bottom edges of te buffer beams as a reference surface - nothing will twist from now on.

 

[Tony Teague]

Looking very good!

[Michael Edge]

Bodywork on Hecate substantially complete now.

There's been quite a lot of plumbing to add (and more on the other side), various lubricators, blanking plates from earlier boiler feed, steam pipes etc. The safety valve cover is a standard LBSC fitting, moulded dome is one of ours but I had to machine a chimney, none of the Brighton ones I have matched it for size. Curiously when it was fitted with an LBSC boiler it lost its smokebox - which was of a typical waisted in Brighton style. Buffer heads aren't fitted until afer grit blasting, they will be on before painting. I haven't fitted the smokebox door, mainly because we have no handles - more stuff we can't get from Gibson.

I had to remove the driving wheels to machine the flanges off, didn't notice this when I fitted the wheels at first, finishing the running gear will take about a day next week then it's ready for the paintshop.