HonestTom Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 11 hours ago, Nearholmer said: Good idea, especially since, and I'm open to correction by Mr Snowdon,I don't think the Met had any six-wheelers. Didn't they go direct from 4w to bogies for the outer areas? In between, they had a weird interim thing with rigid 8-wheel coaches, two sets of four wheels at each end. They're easily mistaken for bogie coaches and I'm not aware of any other company trying this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, HonestTom said: In between, they had a weird interim thing with rigid 8-wheel coaches, two sets of four wheels at each end. They're easily mistaken for bogie coaches and I'm not aware of any other company trying this. LNWR had radials as well 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 The Met rigid eight wheelers were, I think, their first own coaches, so came before the four-wheelers, rather than after, and IIRC were an adapted copy of the GWR coaches that they used for the first year or two (perhaps even less), until the two companies fell out with one another. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 The more I read through the comments in this thread the more I conclude that Hattons have basically got it absolutely right going for a generic range. OK one or two features (e.g. that westinghouse Brake fit) to iron out but the basic idea sounds ever more the way to go. As for folk asking for this that and everything else (e.g clerestories) I again think Hattons have got it right because these will come out as a decent generic set of models that can be detailed in various ways - gas cylinders added as per 'Edwardian's comments, pot lamps that can be removed for the gas lit era, even vacuum cylinders could be post-purchase additions. And the enterprising 'small suppliers' could no doubt put into the marketplace 3-D printed clerestories or shell vents and so on. Obviously some of the basic details will never be right for particular individual vehicles such as those which survived into the 1960s in departmental use but the basic Hattons models will provide fertile ground for fettling, additions, removals, and various other things which come under that rather old-fashioned and oft neglected term 'modelling'. 5 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 56 minutes ago, JSpencer said: I wonder what the comments on here would have been like if Hornby had made the announcement. Kohler's initial offering would have been a Restaurant all 1st, to which we would all have said "wtf..." 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Yuk. These scale out at about 16" length. These vehicles have standard screw couplings, i.e. they are not intended to be close-coupled stuff, so the buffer length should be at least 20.5", more likely 1'10.5" or perhaps 2' for that era. The buffer shank is drastically undernourished, not to mention impossible to produce economically in 4mm scale. 2.75" (say 0.9mm) would be a better objective. The stock diameter at the front is also horribly small. Prototype castings that narrow wouldn't last 5 minutes. Head diameter is reasonable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) Ah, g’wan, g’wan, g’wan, g’wan! You know you all want to. This is the sort of thing us coarse-0 people have been playing trains with for a while now, and they are fun. The first strings of generic s-x-wheelers were made by Carette c1909, and we’ve had a massive choice of them, variously high-roofed, low-roofed, and clerestory, in about twenty liveries, from Ace and from Darstaed in the past c15 years. Edited October 10, 2019 by Nearholmer 11 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 10 hours ago, JCL said: If they don't, and the rooves are separate, I can imagine someone with 3D printing experience putting together aftermarket clerestory rooves (or roofs, depending on your persuasion). As they are modular, it will be interesting to see how these are assembled when they come out. Not that simple, unfortunately. A clerestory carriage would also require new ends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, HonestTom said: In between, they had a weird interim thing with rigid 8-wheel coaches, two sets of four wheels at each end. They're easily mistaken for bogie coaches and I'm not aware of any other company trying this. 45 minutes ago, mozzer models said: LNWR had radials as well The GN had a rigid 8 wheeler. Edited October 10, 2019 by chris p bacon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 What next? Generic locos in your choice of livery? Harks back to the days of Hornby Tinplate . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 26 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: Kohler's initial offering would have been a Restaurant all 1st, to which we would all have said "wtf..." Probably not, considering how long it took for the Big H to get round to adding one to their Maunsell line-up. John 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestTom Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, mozzer models said: LNWR had radials as well 9 minutes ago, chris p bacon said: The GN had a rigid 8 wheeler. It's becoming increasingly obvious that I don't spend enough time outside the Greater London area... How about a rigid 8-wheeler, Hattons? (I kid, I kid) Edited October 10, 2019 by HonestTom 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Denbridge said: What next? Generic locos in your choice of livery? Harks back to the days of Hornby Tinplate . Or even Hornby's present and relatively recent past in OO. Nellie and her sisters, Smokey Joe, Desmond, the GWR 0-4-0T (fictitious liveries also available) and that funny looking thing with the undernourished chimney and cab. John Edited October 10, 2019 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestTom Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Or even Hornby's present and relatively recent past in OO. Nellie and her sisters, Smokey Joe, Desmond, the GWR 0-4-0T (fictitious liveries also available) and that funny looking thing with the undernourished chimney and cab. John Those sell quite well, don't they? 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2019 30 minutes ago, Denbridge said: What next? Generic locos in your choice of livery? Harks back to the days of Hornby Tinplate . I'm sure I could find a use for them, even if you couldn't. 3 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Miss Prism said: Kohler's initial offering would have been a Restaurant all 1st, to which we would all have said "wtf..." Well, if it had looked anything like this: ... I think that would have been my reaction too but perhaps not quite in the sense you meant, @Miss Prism! NB. Before anyone starts picking the nits off me, I know that's not a first but a centre-kitchen composite to WCJS Diagram 10; it was the first postable picture of a Wolverton diner I could lay my hands on. 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, JSpencer said: I wonder what the comments on here would have been like if Hornby had made the announcement. Can't see why it would be any different. 17 minutes ago, Nile said: I'm sure I could find a use for them, even if you couldn't. Ditto. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Well, if it had looked anything like this: ... I think that would have been my reaction too but perhaps not quite in the sense you meant, @Miss Prism! NB. Before anyone starts picking the nits off me, I know that's not a first but a centre-kitchen composite to WCJS Diagram 10; it was the first postable picture of a Wolverton diner I could lay my hands on. Rather an American aesthetic there; Country & North Western? 1 2 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said: The more I read through the comments in this thread the more I conclude that Hattons have basically got it absolutely right going for a generic range. OK one or two features (e.g. that westinghouse Brake fit) to iron out but the basic idea sounds ever more the way to go. As for folk asking for this that and everything else (e.g clerestories) I again think Hattons have got it right because these will come out as a decent generic set of models that can be detailed in various ways - gas cylinders added as per 'Edwardian's comments, pot lamps that can be removed for the gas lit era, even vacuum cylinders could be post-purchase additions. And the enterprising 'small suppliers' could no doubt put into the marketplace 3-D printed clerestories or shell vents and so on. Obviously some of the basic details will never be right for particular individual vehicles such as those which survived into the 1960s in departmental use but the basic Hattons models will provide fertile ground for fettling, additions, removals, and various other things which come under that rather old-fashioned and oft neglected term 'modelling'. Coming in alongside this post, as I have had a busy few days and watched things with interest. Hatton's indeed look to have don't several things right here to bring this product to market. First off all its a generic coach, and most of these at the time did look similar. Yes you can detail differences to them as required, but encompassing every single regional area with its bespoke small accurate coach was never going to be an idea that can meet the markets demand for something that would be profitable. Here instead you get something broadly similar for something pre-grouping that can be enhanced, detailed or left as is for those wanting to run something from this period. Secondly, for the spec of the model the price is very attractive. They have the detail that is needed and lots of nice features to encourage modelling the various areas. Moving them into grouping territory again opens up the market, as does industrial and departmental use. Again a clever move. These will surely feature in many areas as the price makes them a nice addition to bolster the various novelty additions that people have on a layout that are there to gain interest. Finally, the liveries and finish. Yes the panelling can be changed to suit and people here pushing for panelling to be changed to match their regional variations and lobby for this. Hatton's shouldn't move to much to do this, the product is good overall and is already perfect for many of the needs of the stock of this type. By changing a lot they satisfy one side and again could start to loose the support of the other. Liveries again can be applied to stock to meet the various needs of people from elsewhere, though its interesting to see some that I think will be higher demand than others being left until later. The other range that can be done, could be some preserved stock that has been scratch built to suit, such as Tanfield Railway. Overall, its an excellent addition and the popularity of the thread means again Hatton's have chosen wisely and selected a winning product. That they are moving for steam also bodes well for them looking for areas of the market to develop, so that they can enhance the range offered by major manufacturers. This should not be a means by them to denounce Hatton's or complain of competition. Hatton's have just brought a product that will no doubt enhance the sales of their own range thanks to this stock to go with them. Sadly I think that will be lost on some, or those that fail to understand that the market and methods have changed in recent years - so that the likes of Hatton's can exist and enhance the ranges of traditional companies to the benefit of all. 5 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Black Hat said: Coming in alongside this post, as I have had a busy few days and watched things with interest. Hatton's indeed look to have don't several things right here to bring this product to market. First off all its a generic coach, and most of these at the time did look similar. Yes you can detail differences to them as required, but encompassing every single regional area with its bespoke small accurate coach was never going to be an idea that can meet the markets demand for something that would be profitable. Here instead you get something broadly similar for something pre-grouping that can be enhanced, detailed or left as is for those wanting to run something from this period. Secondly, for the spec of the model the price is very attractive. They have the detail that is needed and lots of nice features to encourage modelling the various areas. Moving them into grouping territory again opens up the market, as does industrial and departmental use. Again a clever move. These will surely feature in many areas as the price makes them a nice addition to bolster the various novelty additions that people have on a layout that are there to gain interest. Finally, the liveries and finish. Yes the panelling can be changed to suit and people here pushing for panelling to be changed to match their regional variations and lobby for this. Hatton's shouldn't move to much to do this, the product is good overall and is already perfect for many of the needs of the stock of this type. By changing a lot they satisfy one side and again could start to loose the support of the other. Liveries again can be applied to stock to meet the various needs of people from elsewhere, though its interesting to see some that I think will be higher demand than others being left until later. The other range that can be done, could be some preserved stock that has been scratch built to suit, such as Tanfield Railway. Overall, its an excellent addition and the popularity of the thread means again Hatton's have chosen wisely and selected a winning product. That they are moving for steam also bodes well for them looking for areas of the market to develop, so that they can enhance the range offered by major manufacturers. This should not be a means by them to denounce Hatton's or complain of competition. Hatton's have just brought a product that will no doubt enhance the sales of their own range thanks to this stock to go with them. Sadly I think that will be lost on some, or those that fail to understand that the market and methods have changed in recent years - so that the likes of Hatton's can exist and enhance the ranges of traditional companies to the benefit of all. That's a very good summary, IMHO. 1 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Nearholmer said: What is that strange mixed-gauge track? 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I believe these will be a huge winner for Hattons and for those who like me, admire British pre-grouping but don't really have the skills to build (and more importantly, paint), this means we can actually start focusing on this period. For quite a few years now, I have been doing exactly this but with German pre-grouping (Prussian) simply because I really love the quaint old locos and wonderfully colourful liveries that I could never paint myself. Apparently a lot of my coaches are pretty accurate but I haven't a clue whether they are or not, I don't let that stop me and I consider adding passengers, lighting, weathering and so forth to be - modelling! So, carry on Hattons, only those dedicated and skilled souls will be bothered, I won't be! I reiterate my plea for these vehicles to be as good on the track as the Continental models are, PLEASE! Cheers, John 3 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted October 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2019 I don't know, some of the griping on here you'd think people were being forced to buy these at gunpoint, against their will. 8 9 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, JSpencer said: I wonder what the comments on here would have been like if Hornby had made the announcement. Oh, I'd wait until about January 2021, when they probably will! 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Denbridge said: Not that simple, unfortunately. A clerestory carriage would also require new ends. Why? Plenty examples of clerestory roofs which sat above a full length, main, roof line which extended over the end of the vehicle. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts