Second Hand Hornby Locos - Are They Worth Buying?

[Northmoor]

32 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

There is a phrase "false economy". Where you get something cheap then spend more money and time than what you would have spent if you bought a new one....

 

Only if you only consider the direct financial cost.  Doing that makes building most locomotive kits (and nowadays, buildings) a completely pointless activity, you can just buy the Bachmann/Hornby one, but you will have learned nothing more than how to open the box.

[PatB]

33 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

My main reason for saying "bin them" is that some people are assuming everyone has the knowledge and skills to repair things. Or even the time. Yes you can buy Hornby Dublo, Wrenn and Triang that are good runners and are in good condition. But they cost money which IMO is better spent on buying a decent bargain from one of the box shifters.

 

There is a phrase "false economy". Where you get something cheap then spend more money and time than what you would have spent if you bought a new one....

 

 

Besides I don't physically mean bin them. Just get rid of them at a swapmeet or something.

 

 

Jason

True, repair and restoration require a degree of skill and an understanding (or the ability to develop one) of how things work. OTOH, something like a Triang/Hornby Jinty with an X04 motor is hardly a complex beast and contains very little likely to be damaged beyond repair by inexpert fiddling. Not a bad guinea pig to learn basic loco servicing skills if that is a road the individual wishes to follow. 

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I have to disagree about Lima engines. I have 2 Crabs and 2 small Prairies that run wonderfully well. I even have a Pannier and j50. Both run ok but are only worth using to let kids run something. The Pannier body is quite nice but the J50 body is about a basic as you can get. One day I might put a decent chassis on the pannier. So I would steer well clear of the 0-6-0 Lima tanks.

Edited October 12, 2019 by cypherman

[The Johnster]

I have a  ‘Limbach’ 94xx which will be retired when the upcoming Baccy appears; the chassis already has a 57xx body waiting for it.  The conversion is not difficult; I did it which is in itself proof of that!

 

Lima’s plastic body toolings were pretty good for their time, but their stuff let itself down below the running plates with crude and incorrect motion, no centre driver crankpins in solid plastic wheels, and crude motors with visible gears (also a problem with Airfix and Triang Hornby tender drives).  

4 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Only if you only consider the direct financial cost.  Doing that makes building most locomotive kits (and nowadays, buildings) a completely pointless activity, you can just buy the Bachmann/Hornby one, but you will have learned nothing more than how to open the box.

If you are trying to get the most realistic model possible, there is an argument that kits are pointless, except where no current standard RTR alternative is available, as the kit is more expensive and usually an inferior model, apart from haulage capacity.  Not saying I agree completely with it, mind!  The satisfaction of building something that works is a factor for consideration; this is a hobby that is primarily for our own enjoyment after all...

[hayfield]

On 12/10/2019 at 17:15, cypherman said:

Hi all,

I have to disagree about Lima engines. I have 2 Crabs and 2 small Prairies that run wonderfully well. I even have a Pannier and j50. Both run ok but are only worth using to let kids run something. The Pannier body is quite nice but the J50 body is about a basic as you can get. One day I might put a decent chassis on the pannier. So I would steer well clear of the 0-6-0 Lima tanks.

 

 

I do think sometimes with Lima, Airfix and Mainline locos sometimes its the luck of the draw, plus how much they have been used and how they have been serviced. Where as the earlier style of Hornby and Hornby Dublo chassis design lends itself to being both more robust and serviceable. The downside being the superstructures being quite basic.

 

But like all things usually better quality items are more expensive 

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 11/10/2019 at 19:28, midlandmike said:

Just to add my sixpennorth (Im an oldie) got 2 mainline jubilees (leander/orion)  bought new for about £15 must be over 50 years ago still running smoothly and pulling well just had occasional oiling maybe not as quiet as new locos but good enough for me

I think some of the problems with Mainline were caused by the way they were treated. Over-oiling can be bad for some kinds of plastic. I had a Collett Goods from new which was never oiled and never had a problem. It still ran perfectly when I sold it after 30 years.

I bought three panniers and made one good one. I did however sell that as there was a nice weathered body which got enough spares from the other two to get it into good running shape. The bonus was that I actually made a profit by selling that all of the useable bits I didn't want on Ebay and learned a lot in the process.

[Caley 439]

Many years ago when still at school an LMS maroon Jinty (with syncrosmoke) was picked up from my late local model shop, for a princely £23. Nice condition and a 3 month warranty from the shop.  This could literally pull the wall off a house, and whilst not the most detailed spent many years happily chuffing round my layout - it's just as well the Mainline J72 wheels fell off when given a test run at the shop before purchase, and this was chosen instead.  On shed it sat next to a then new Sir Harry le fis Lake, a lovely model full of detailing, and on the next line a Triang M7 converted into a Caley class 19  0-4-4T.    I've found that many of the old Triang locos are built like the proverbial brick No 2 house, but this is at the cost of a low level of detailing.  Some Mainline locos have lovely detailing too (the 2P), whist others are a bit cruder (the 4MT and J72).  Some retailers at exhibitions also have a length of track so you can see a 2nd hand loco running before purchasing from them which is handy.  Peter's Spares are great for spare parts, but I would also recommend others (Lendons of Cardiff being another - supplying spare carbon brushes!).  Have used both and very happy with the parts.

  Also try your local model shop if there is one - I picked up a lot of 2nd hand bits and pieces (locos and stock) and got on well with the owners, picking up various locos and stock (mostly Triang) over the years.

[MarshLane]

Without wishing to hijack the thread at all ... but on a similar vein, what are people's thoughts on Hornby's LNER locos in the railroad range - I appreciate they are cheaper for reason, but I've been pondering something like their LNER garter blue (R3371) model of Mallard - with a view to some front end detailing and a name/number change.  OO gauge isn't my strong point, but have fancied an A4 for a while. I thought Bachmann did one, but I'm struggling to find one anyway.  A friend has a OO gauge layout where it would be run, on full length 8/9 coach trains, slight grade but basically flat.

 

Any thoughts/views would be welcomed, apologies for the hijack, but I felt it was in a similar vein and not worth duplicating on another thread.

Rich

[hayfield]

I know this may not be the best example but here is a newer style Hornby Loco M7 @ £129.99 + postage

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-Class-M7-Tank-Locomotive-DCC-Ready-in-Black/183982149215?hash=item2ad630ce5f:g:6ckAAOSwexddWtVz

 

In contrast at the moment £7.50 + postage

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triang-Hornby-R52-0-6-0T-Jinty-47606-very-good-condition/183985797249?hash=item2ad6687881:g:BccAAOSwLrtdl2Dk

 

Granted the more expensive one is head and shoulders above the Jinty, certainly in detail and possibly running quality. But if you are forced to work on a tight budget the Jinty will work well for years to come, its easy to service and parts are readily available and would lend itself to customising.

 

By all means aspire to being able to afford better quality models in the future, but starting somewhere is better than having nothing 

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

I think some of the problems with Mainline were caused by the way they were treated. Over-oiling can be bad for some kinds of plastic. I had a Collett Goods from new which was never oiled and never had a problem. It still ran perfectly when I sold it after 30 years.

I bought three panniers and made one good one. I did however sell that as there was a nice weathered body which got enough spares from the other two to get it into good running shape. The bonus was that I actually made a profit by selling that all of the useable bits I didn't want on Ebay and learned a lot in the process.

 

A free loco, some spare cash but best of all priceless experience in servicing a loco  

[PatB]

20 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I know this may not be the best example but here is a newer style Hornby Loco M7 @ £129.99 + postage

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-Class-M7-Tank-Locomotive-DCC-Ready-in-Black/183982149215?hash=item2ad630ce5f:g:6ckAAOSwexddWtVz

 

In contrast at the moment £7.50 + postage

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triang-Hornby-R52-0-6-0T-Jinty-47606-very-good-condition/183985797249?hash=item2ad6687881:g:BccAAOSwLrtdl2Dk

 

Granted the more expensive one is head and shoulders above the Jinty, certainly in detail and possibly running quality. But if you are forced to work on a tight budget the Jinty will work well for years to come, its easy to service and parts are readily available and would lend itself to customising.

 

By all means aspire to being able to afford better quality models in the future, but starting somewhere is better than having nothing 

Quite so. Given a decent controller it should be quite happy shuffling half a dozen wagons around an Inglenook, or running a couple of Dapol non-corridor coaches in and out of a branch terminus. No, it won't be to modern standards, but with similar buys you could stock most of an enjoyable working layout for the cost of a single modern loco. 

[hayfield]

This months Railway Modeller is celebrating 70 years with a pull out showing various layouts over the years, in the 60's we had to make do with what was available and scratch build most of the layout from bits of recycled card, metal and wood. Money was scarce

 

Fast forward to the 21st century, most items can be bought as either kit of parts (baseboards etc) or highly detailed RTR items (stock buildings etc) in a wide range of prototypes. Chequebook modellers abound as the target market is quite cash rich, forgetting that the hobby has a wide spectrum from society, young to old, cash or time poor to rich. or those who are just eccentric and want something completely different. 

 

This forum is a great place for modellers of all abilities from novices to the greats of the hobby, all should be encouraged

[bike2steam]

On 08/10/2019 at 15:30, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

- most of us have scampered off to enjoy the supply of vastly superior product from China that kicked in around 20 years ago. Your choice, careful research will make the right decision that best serves your interest...

 

Too right, a large proportion of my collection are second-hand purchases with most from dissatisfied previous owners that haven't had the time, effort or knowledge, to maintain - long may it stay that way. 

[PatB]

The Jinty linked by Hayfield went for £7.50. One like it, plus a couple of Dapol's simple and ready finished coach kits at £11.46 rrp each, and you've got a complete LMR branch line train for fractionally north of 30 quid. Say 40 to cover postage and a pot of grey Humbrol for the coach roofs. Another 50 quid will buy enough Peco Code 100 track and points for a "loop and 2 sidings" branch terminus. Goods stock should be obtainable for 5-6 notes a vehicle, so say another 50 for enough for a train and a couple in the sidings to shuffle. Unless you're happy building your own, it's worth paying a bit for a decent controller. Gaugemaster get a good write up on here and their basic units seem to start from about that magic 50 again. Add another 20 for a slab of rigid foam insulation to use as a baseboard and you've got the raw materials for something you can operate in an interesting and prototypical manner, even if the individual models are not photorealistic, for the princely sum of £210.

 

Or you can spend the same amount on a modern loco and coaches, which will undoubtedly be infinitely better models, but which won't do much until you've saved up again for all the infrastructure you need to operate them. 

[cypherman]

Hi all,

As Hayfield has pointed out the price difference between old and new is quite large. I would like to show you the similar price difference for the same M7 engine. Between the new one shown by Hayfield and some 2nd hand ones on ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R-868-S-R-0-4-4-M-7-tank-locomotive-southren-328/283639100343?hash=item420a3533b7:g:4igAAOSwV2ddHGiR

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R862-BR-BLACK-Ex-SR-0-4-4-CLASS-M7-TANK-LOCOMOTIVE-30111-nt/333331777175?hash=item4d9c1f4697:g:ACUAAOSwv5ldf38-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-OO-GAUGE-SR-CLASS-M7-0-4-4-TANK-LOCOMOTIVE-245-R868/312780387560?epid=1557128068&hash=item48d329f4e8:g:rFcAAOSwcJVdijuv

Yes they range between £15.00 to £40.00 but are in excellent condition. Where as the newer ones range anything from £80.00 and up.

There were some cheaper ones listed, but they require work doing to them. So I left them out. I personally would have gone for the cheap options and sorted them out. But that's just because I like doing that sort of thing.

But we seem to only be looking at engines here. I know that was what was asked for, But there is a wealth of 2nd stock out there as well. I just got this GWR Brake coach for £2.90. and it is in perfect condition and boxed.

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by cypherman

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

This months Railway Modeller is celebrating 70 years with a pull out showing various layouts over the years, in the 60's we had to make do with what was available and scratch build most of the layout from bits of recycled card, metal and wood. Money was scarce

 

Fast forward to the 21st century, most items can be bought as either kit of parts (baseboards etc) or highly detailed RTR items (stock buildings etc) in a wide range of prototypes. Chequebook modellers abound as the target market is quite cash rich, forgetting that the hobby has a wide spectrum from society, young to old, cash or time poor to rich. or those who are just eccentric and want something completely different. 

 

This forum is a great place for modellers of all abilities from novices to the greats of the hobby, all should be encouraged

Money wasn't necessarily scarce. There are a few layouts, where seemingly money was no object, with professional modellers hired in to build a high class layout, apparently from scratch.

 

I give you Francisthwaite Junction by the late W.S. Norris, which has had photos regularly appearing in the model magazines, ever since.

[hayfield]

9 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Money wasn't necessarily scarce. There are a few layouts, where seemingly money was no object, with professional modellers hired in to build a high class layout, apparently from scratch.

 

I give you Francisthwaite Junction by the late W.S. Norris, which has had photos regularly appearing in the model magazines, ever since.

 

Kevin

 

As you say there were a few large layouts, I had a large collection of Railway Modeller and Model Railway Constructor mags going back to the 50's, granted feature layouts were large but the mags were bulked up with mostly small, or started small layouts and cheap kit or scratch building articles. Show you how articles were not building a kit or small layout, but low lever scratch building using items found in every household (matchsticks and card from cereal packets or loo rolls. 

[kevinlms]

16 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Kevin

 

As you say there were a few large layouts, I had a large collection of Railway Modeller and Model Railway Constructor mags going back to the 50's, granted feature layouts were large but the mags were bulked up with mostly small, or started small layouts and cheap kit or scratch building articles. Show you how articles were not building a kit or small layout, but low lever scratch building using items found in every household (matchsticks and card from cereal packets or loo rolls. 

I totally agree, with the basic raw materials being a source. The coming of the cheap plastic kits (Airfix/Kitmaster etc) changed all that. By the late 1950s, there were many articles, which basically showed what could be achieved by chopping up multiple kits.

 

A 4mm example of a professionally built layout was the "A Magnificent System in OO Gauge", which appeared as RotM in Railway Modeller for 1959 February and March, by Mr Millar of Millar Models and C.H. Philo. It featured two loops one, GWR the other LMS.

 

 

[hayfield]

11 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

I totally agree, with the basic raw materials being a source. The coming of the cheap plastic kits (Airfix/Kitmaster etc) changed all that. By the late 1950s, there were many articles, which basically showed what could be achieved by chopping up multiple kits.

 

A 4mm example of a professionally built layout was the "A Magnificent System in OO Gauge", which appeared as RotM in Railway Modeller for 1959 February and March, by Mr Millar of Millar Models and C.H. Philo. It featured two loops one, GWR the other LMS.

 

 

 

 

One layout that always stuck in my mind was of Eastbourne station by Vivian Thompson, as it happens a bage in the Railway Modeller pull out book

[cheesysmith]

I have bought lots of used and non running second hand locos, and every single one has either been useful for spares or repaired to work. A tip for checking out second hand locos is to take a 9v battery, the terminals are just right for putting across the wheels to check if it works in 00 gauge.

 

My best bargain? Has to be a vitrains class 37 for less than £20. Non runner. Reason, broken blanking plug and wheels needed cleaning.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

 

One layout that always stuck in my mind was of Eastbourne station by Vivian Thompson, as it happens a bage in the Railway Modeller pull out book

That would be Vivien Thompson and her book.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Period-Railway-Modelling-Vivien-Thompson/dp/0900586370

 

I never did buy a copy as most of her work was of Eastbourne & the trains around at the time.

 

An exception to the rule, where the male half builds a model railway and the female shows little interest. Almost unique!

[hayfield]

3 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

That would be Vivien Thompson and her book.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Period-Railway-Modelling-Vivien-Thompson/dp/0900586370

 

I never did buy a copy as most of her work was of Eastbourne & the trains around at the time.

 

An exception to the rule, where the male half builds a model railway and the female shows little interest. Almost unique!

 

Yes

[The Johnster]

I saw a Hornby 2721 on the secondhand shelves in my local shop a couple of years ago, recent production and can motor, for £30, and asked to buy it.  When the proprietor got it out and test ran it, it behaved like a 3 legged dog with 3 different legs pointing in different directions, but it did run.  He went to look in the backroom to see if there was another one for me, but there wasn't, so he said he was going to chuck it.  I offered him a fiver for it as seen, and I have seldom seen a £5 note disappear so quickly from my hand, assuming you can see something disappear of course...

 

My thinking was that there was power to the motor and she wasn't completely dead, that whatever else was wrong would be something I could sort out, and that it was worth a punt.  I had a dysfunctional Westward 64xx which could provide a decent chimney and safety valve cover, and intended to work the loco up a bit if I could get it running.  I'd made the correct guess that she was overlubed and gunged up by a previous owner, and thought initially that I'd had a bargain; dream on Johnster! 

 

It turned out to a bit of a saga involving a lot of fiddling and faffing and buying a s/h J86 as a wheel and gear donor.  It took some time, I mean several frustrating months, and adjusting of pickups and the springs bearing down on the rear axle to get a reasonable performance but smooth starts and stops were elusive.  Total cost including new number plates, buffers, and Modelu crew; about £70 and my original budget was for £40.  Ballasting, especially in the bunker, has proved the answer to the stopping and starting performance and she now runs well and quietly.  

 

Was it worth it?  In the event it cost about the same as the original asking price plus the improvements I wanted to make anyway, so I didn't save any money.  I have been messing about with locos for over 50 years, but it taxed my ability, and I thought the suspension springing, which is simply two springs bearing down on the rear axle without a plate and was improved by my smoothing off the ends of the springs which had scratched a groove into the rear axle, was a rather poor piece of design.  On the positive side, I have a 2721 that runs well enough.  On the negative side, there are fundamental issues of scale with this model and the skirts beneath the boiler are horrible, even after a repaint in Caerphilly Works austerity black and with weathering.

 

The prototype had to be Tondu's 2761, and Hornby had produced the model with this number in late GW livery, but incorrectly in green with Egyptian Serif lettering.  Photo of this loco in 1950 at Swindon after withdrawal shows fluted coupling rods, so I cannot upgrade her with the Bachmann 57xx chassis; in any case a trial fit shows that the current Baccy motor is too fat for this body so a Jinty/1F chassis is no improvement either.  I have to live with the compromises...

 

I would not recommend this sort of purchase to a newbie, and bring the subject up because this model is common and cheap on 'Bay.  

 

 

[RobMG]

Basically, I would not bother with Triang or Triang Hornby. They are too crudely made. Oh and tender drive, I wouldn't go within a mile of them !  Later Hornby can be really good, but if you see something ebay you like the look of, research it first. Look at reviews, and ask here.  

Bachmann models are likely to be better, but again ask here.  with Bachmann again later models are the ones to go for.  Early models have split chassis which are generally likely to be troublesome. I have about three split chassis locos which are awaiting new etched chassis to be built.  The body moldings are great, but below the footplate,, ugghh !

Generally  Bachmann are very good, if later models. All of mine are excellent.  Just got a s/hand but in as new condition class 25/1 and it is beautiful.  Despite what people say about inaccuracies bodywise, I love it...

[Steamport Southport]

On 12/10/2019 at 13:06, Northmoor said:

Only if you only consider the direct financial cost.  Doing that makes building most locomotive kits (and nowadays, buildings) a completely pointless activity, you can just buy the Bachmann/Hornby one, but you will have learned nothing more than how to open the box.

 

I didn't mention kits. The thread is about buying cheap second hand RTR after all.

 

I was talking about people buying cheap models and then spending good money on replacing parts which are exactly the same as the bits that have broke. Things such as Mainline or Airfix where the chassis has disintegrated. Most of the time you are just throwing good money after bad. 

 

 

Jason