Roco Z21 vs Digikeijs DR5000 vs ESU ECoS

[Dougjuk]

21 hours ago, 40034_Nick said:

I have the z21 and the ECoS... and used many other controllers..

The ECoS is the best controller i have ever seen.. i control all locos and points with it... Amazing !!

 

I am beginning to think you are right but the cost is rather high.  If I could afford it I would have gone down that road.

 

Doug

[WIMorrison]

And then you are either locked into ESU for peripherals or you have to buy expensive interfaces to be able to use industry protocols such as Loconet.

 

Good, but ultimately extremely expensive that doesn’t offer anything especially unique for the money.

[Junctionmad]

20 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

And then you are either locked into ESU for peripherals or you have to buy expensive interfaces to be able to use industry protocols such as Loconet.

 

Good, but ultimately extremely expensive that doesn’t offer anything especially unique for the money.

There are a fair number of inexpensive loconet modules etc. 

[WIMorrison]

43 minutes ago, Junctionmad said:

There are a fair number of inexpensive loconet modules etc. 

 

I know, but to use them with ECoS you need to pay another £100 for a Loconet interface

[55020]

On 20/01/2020 at 15:51, Tommyp81 said:

I have looked into the DR5088RC and wondered if this could be used with the ECoS through the ESU Lnet converter?    

 

Did you have any success with this configuration?   I've tried and failed.  The ECoS will recognise the fact there is a detector present, but will not accept Railcom via the L.Net converter, so all I get is basic occupancy detection.  Perhaps changing some of the options available in the DR5088RC will produce a better outcome, but I couldn't find anything that made a difference.

 

If anyone has managed to get this equipment combination to work please divulge how

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

[WIMorrison]

Have you tried passing the information back in the block address rather than loco address? This is his I get the Railcom data back to the Z21 and iTrain  

[55020]

On 04/02/2020 at 21:28, WIMorrison said:

Have you tried passing the information back in the block address rather than loco address? This is his I get the Railcom data back to the Z21 and iTrain  

 

Thanks Iain, that's a great suggestion and not something I've tried.  I'm away from home at the moment, but will see how I get on this weekend and report back.

 

 

Steve

[Anthony566]

ECoS for me also ...  agree with the cost comments but just love it having had many systems. Very cheap to turn on wifi control also so full mobile loco and track control.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Anthony566

[Marklin Norm]

On ‎05‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 08:28, WIMorrison said:

Have you tried passing the information back in the block address rather than loco address? This is his I get the Railcom data back to the Z21 and iTrain  

 

I am new to all this so have no idea what that means or how one is supposed to do that.

I tried the DR5088RC with my ECoS via LocoNet using the ESU LocoNet adaptor, and like member "55020" also found that the DR5088 reported track occupancy on the ECoS but not loco ID. I did ask Digikels why not, his only comment was that ESU are supposedly well known for making it as difficult as possible to use 3rd party products, so no help at all.

As far as I can tell (I have not tried it) the ESU Detector unit supposedly does allow display of loco ID via Railcom, so presumably the ECoS can do it. But the ESU Detector is extremely expensive and only 4 of the 16 sensor inputs are Railcom.

 

Norm.

[WIMorrison]

Norm

 

you change the reporting mechanism with the DR5088RC

[DaveArkley]

I have been using a Dijikeijs DR5000 for a couple of years. The functionality is great and I have Digikeijs boosters, detectors (occupancy and Railcomm), and servo controllers . All work well.

 

But the DR5000 has failed on two counts. The USB connection is intermittent and now the programming track output fails about 70%-80% of the time. I often disconnect the controller from the layout and use it for programming in the comfort of the house. The connections are just not robust enough for repeated plugging/unplugging.

 

So I've just ordered a Z21 (to replace the DR5000) and a WiFi Multimaus (to replace a couple of Profi Boss) which look a whole lot more robust.

 

When it arrives I'll be doing plenty of interoerability testing but from YouTube videos it all looks like it should work. I've been using the Z21 app with the DR5000 so in theory my loco roster doesn't need recreating.

 

Cheers

Dave 

[melmerby]

13 minutes ago, DaveArkley said:

 I often disconnect the controller from the layout and use it for programming in the comfort of the house. The connections are just not robust enough for repeated plugging/unplugging.

 

 

 

Cheers

Dave 

When I first got a DR5000 I looked at the connections and thought straight away that they were fragile, so I mounted the DR5000 on a piece of ply and fitted more robust connectors to that, so that they took the connect/disconnect stresses.

 

I now use a Z21 and WiFi Maus. (and occasionally a tablet/phone)

[55020]

11 hours ago, Marklin Norm said:

 

I am new to all this so have no idea what that means or how one is supposed to do that.

I tried the DR5088RC with my ECoS via LocoNet using the ESU LocoNet adaptor, and like member "55020" also found that the DR5088 reported track occupancy on the ECoS but not loco ID. I did ask Digikels why not, his only comment was that ESU are supposedly well known for making it as difficult as possible to use 3rd party products, so no help at all.

As far as I can tell (I have not tried it) the ESU Detector unit supposedly does allow display of loco ID via Railcom, so presumably the ECoS can do it. But the ESU Detector is extremely expensive and only 4 of the 16 sensor inputs are Railcom.

 

Norm.

Norm,

 

The ESU ECoSDetectors will provide Railcom ID info through the 4 Railcom ports.  But as you highlight, it is only through 4 of the 16 ports.
 

I couldn't get ECoS to recognise any Railcom info through the L.Net adapter, no matter how I set up the DR5088RC.  So I've decided to try a different route, which is feed the Railcom/Loconet info through a Loconet to PC adapter (RR-CirKits LocoBuffer USB)  into a PC running iTrain.  Having Railcom info in iTrain was always the aim, but using ECoS for train control.  It appears that iTrain will allow me to separate out the detection element, so that I can use both ECoS and the USB interface as inputs.

 

A side beneft is that I'll still get basic block detection in the ECoS as well.  So this way I get all the info I need, where I need it, but have the cost benefits of using DR5088RC providing 16 Railcom blocks versus the ECoS Detector which only gives me 4 Railcom blocks.

 

Having said all that I haven't tried this arrangement yet.  I am waiting so that I can purchase the USB adapter in the States next month.  This will save me quite a bit compared with purchasing the unit from a UK supplier.

 

 

Steve

Edited March 11, 2020 by 55020

[55020]

As my trip to the States is extremely unlikely to happen, I went ahead and purchased a Locobuffer USB adapter and have been trying to get things to work.  Much frustration has ensued, as I'm the kind of guy that wants to find solutions in the manuals to better my understanding.  Well that has failed, so here I am reaching out for some help.

 

As described in earlier posts I have block detection set up and am trying to use a DR5088RC unit to communicate Railcom feedback information to a PC running iTrain via the Locobuffer USB adapter.  Loco control is via an ECoS.

 

In iTrain I have set up Locobuffer as a feedback interface and iTrain connects as expected.  ECoS has been set up as the Loco and Accessory controller, with feedback deselected.  ECoS connects as expected.

 

I have also set up a test piece of track in the iTrain switchboard that has a "detector" track segment and associated this segment with the Locobuffer and appropriate detector address.

If I have a loco in the detector section and I check the Feedback Monitor under the View menu, it shows that the section is occupied.  However the switchboard indication does not show an occupied section.  I'm obviously doing something wrong but have run out of options.

Another strange behaviour is that if I drive the loco out of this section onto a point that has no detection, then iTrain "bongs" three times and the Locobuffer is disconnected.

 

Any help or suggestions very gratefully received!

 

 

Steve

Edited March 19, 2020 by 55020

[Dougjuk]

My suggestion would be to use the iTrain forum, there are a couple of users on here but more expertise there.

 

regards

 

Doug

 

[WIMorrison]

just to confirm that you have set up the DR5088RC like this and also that you have checked the box in the iTrain interface to use Loconet? You also need to make sure that your decoder is set to Railcom in CV29 and that CV28 has the channel 1 and channel 2 data enable otherwise you wont get all the data

 

It does work - also when you do get it working I find that setting the loco direction to unknown in iTrain solves some issues.

 

 

[55020]

Hi Iain,

Where to start! 

The decoder and ECoS are set up for Railcom (ECoS, as it needs to generate the Railcom cutout).

I have tried all three iTrain options for Railcom report and both options in sense direction (when offered).

 

When you say "checked the box to use Loconet", do you mean like this:

 

Although I do wonder if Railcom might be a bit of a distraction, as I don't even get basic detection indications via the switchboard.  This makes me wonder if it's the switchboard setup that I've gotten wrong?

As something of an aside, I do get basic (non-Railcom) occupancy indications on my ECoS from the DR5088RC via the L-Net converter, so the issue seems to be between the Locobuffer and iTrain.

 

 

Thanks,

Steve

Edited March 19, 2020 by 55020

[55020]

32 minutes ago, Dougjuk said:

My suggestion would be to use the iTrain forum, there are a couple of users on here but more expertise there.

 

regards

 

Doug

 

 

Hi Doug,

 

That's my backup plan.  Although Iain is probably the most likely to respond over there as well

 

 

Steve

[WIMorrison]

I was suggesting these settings - I also wonder if you need to check vehicles to ensure that the data gets through (though not certain on that)

 

Forgot to say you will need to set the appropriate numbers in the report address box

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by WIMorrison

[55020]

I've tried enabling and disabling vehicles, it didn't alter the outcome.

My settings currently show this:

 

 

Note I don't get the sub-menu beneath "Use new functions".

What does the Start/End actually refer to?

The DR5088RC has been set up to simply use address 1 for the section I'm testing, so nothing fancy.  I did try and force a new address through direct USB programming just in case that was the issue, but again the result was the same.

 

I've also tried disconnecting the L.Net convertor from ECoS, but again no change.

 

 

Steve

 

 

[WIMorrison]

Steve

 

Which version of iTrain are you using, I was assuming v5, but even v4 doesn't appear the same to me - are you using a Mac?

 

I recall that if I didn't have the Vehicles checked then iTrain didn't read all the Railcom IDs and directions at startup which is why I wondered about it.

 

When you look in the DR5088RC as shown above can you see the loco on the track? (you will need USB connected to look but must disconnect any other USB you have connected or you risk damaging the 5088)

 

I think you may need to go to the forum and hope that one of German friends picks it up for the ECoS though few of them use Digikeijs. A couple of Dutch guys do and they may also know the LocoBuffer (is this Hans de Loof's version?)

[55020]

Thanks for persisting with your comments Iain, much appreciated.

 

I have removed all other USB inputs for the check.  I also remove track input to the DR5088RC, but at this stage that feels a bit wrong.  I did this because of a number of warnings in the manual about connecting USB and track power at the same time.  Was I correct to remove track power?

With track power removed and no other USB feeds, this is what the test shows:

 

 

 

It seems a bit odd because all feedback blocks are showing as occupied, but only 1 is actually connected.

 

Bottom line is that no loco details are shown, but as no Railcom signals are being asked for ( no track power) perhaps that shouldn't be a surprise?

 

 

 

Steve

[WIMorrison]

you need to leave the track connected otherwise there is no power to the feedback to see if the DR5088RC is recognising anything in the block

 

You can connect the track and ONE DR5088RC as long as you don't have any other USB devices connected at the same time  (unless they are connected through opto-isolators. I use this method all the time to change parameters or just to look and see what occupation it is sensing.

[55020]

That makes sense, but this warning makes me want to come back and check

 

[WIMorrison]

I’ve also seen that, but ask yourself how you can use the capabilities of the unit if you can’t have track power connected to it?

 

As long as this is the only device connected to the computer then you won’t have an issue, you should disconnect the LocoBuffer and ECoS.

 

I spoke to Karst (the developer) and he confirmed that this works and that you only need the option 

-isolator when you have multiple devices connected concurrently - he sent me a video with 6 connected at the same time using opto-isolators (they cost about £10 :))