BR37414 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 In planning operations for my late 80s/early 90s Highlands themed ayout, it occured to me that some reversing onto and off of the main was going to be required. This then lead me to looking prototypical workings that required this. The Fort William speedlink and Alcan workings are prime examples. In these cases, would the driver be required to switch cabs before reversing into/out of Mallaig Jct yard and Alcan? Would the driver turn on the red markers if he did switch cabs or leave the headlight on? Would there be cases of brake vans being used in long reverse movements where it wasn't possible to runaround the train? Thanks in advance! Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 2 hours ago, BR37414 said: In planning operations for my late 80s/early 90s Highlands themed ayout, it occured to me that some reversing onto and off of the main was going to be required. This then lead me to looking prototypical workings that required this. The Fort William speedlink and Alcan workings are prime examples. In these cases, would the driver be required to switch cabs before reversing into/out of Mallaig Jct yard and Alcan? Would the driver turn on the red markers if he did switch cabs or leave the headlight on? Would there be cases of brake vans being used in long reverse movements where it wasn't possible to runaround the train? Thanks in advance! Alex Not sure about Scotland but brake vans were used in the mid 1990s on the stump of the former Garforth branch from Castleford. Class 56 reversed runs of around 30 wagons to a barrel washer on the waste tips of the recently closed Allerton Bywater colliery. I believe the coal went to Gascoigne Wood for blending with coal from the Selby complex. Apologies if this is not relevant. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR37414 Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 Very much relevant. It's a example of a brake van being used. Thank you! How far did they have to reverse? Was it used by a helper for spotting? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 1 hour ago, BR37414 said: Very much relevant. It's a example of a brake van being used. Thank you! How far did they have to reverse? Was it used by a helper for spotting? Probably the best part of a mile from Castleford East junction. If you look on Google earth the track bed is still clearly visible as is the iron bridge which straddles the river Aire. By this time it must have been an exciting ride as corrosion of the iron pillars and mining subsidence had given the viaduct section north of the bridge a theme park feel. A guard used radio contact to advise the driver and the van was fitted with a large red bell to announce its arrival. According to the late Ron Rockett trains were a standard 36 mgr wagons and were reversed in empty from Castleford. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 For a while in the 1980s MGR trains from Cumbria (and Lancashire pits) to Fiddlers Ferry have an air-piped brake van on the rear. There was a lengthy south to east propelling move in Warrington to enable these trains to head west to Fiddler Ferry. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/15744712981/in/photolist-pZiLCD-nZHLKZ-bUcx9k cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2019 Piped brake vans were a feature of the Blaenant-Aberthaw traffic as well. The brake van was picked up at Jersey Marine at the rear of the train, which ran up the former Neath & Brecon road past the colliery. It was stopped on the van brake setter when the train was past the colliery ‘top’ points, and, with the loco out of sight around a curve in heavily wooded country, the train was dropped back down the gradient into the loading plant 3 hoppers at a time, stopping in the setter so long as the movement could be seen from the van. Once it was out of sight, it was visible from the loco. As far as changing ends was concerned, drivers were supposed to drive from the leading end cab in the direction of the movement at all times, but very often didn’t to save time. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 There were three propelling moves that required propelling vans. South Dock to the Petrofina terminal. Seaham Polka to Seaham Colliery and Northallerton High Jct to Castle Hills Jct for the Redmire limestone trains Mark Saunders 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted November 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2019 Another propelling move with brake van was St Blazey to Ponts Mill. https://www.britishrailwayphotographs.com/p162117122/h93edd744 Easily modelled now with the Kernow Model Centre PRA wagons. It was an 08 job though so the cab change question is irrelevant... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) I’ve see. Videos of Alcan in EWS days, driver reversing out onto the main from the front cab, then once the signal clears he’s off. they are on YouTube Edited November 29, 2019 by rob D2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted November 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2019 Not sure about the time period your modelling but nowadays I do a few propel moves on the main line staying in the lead cab but controlled by radio with ground staff clitheroe cement for example you have to propel in from the helifield direction or coming from Blackburn you propel over the pointwork, enter the branch then run round and propel into the cement plant, all done from the rear most cab ivw mentioned it a few times in other thread but one authorised Signalled propel move you can do solo is across Trent jn from the slows coming from ratcliffe, you cross to the down fast Nottingham, get behind the ground signal, make sure it’s off and propel back across the whole junction into the down fast (including propelling into a tunnel!) where you drop behind the main aspect and he can have you away to derby/sheet stores jn ive done it twice when Toton is full but a lot of signallers are reluctant to do it, it’s quite something to set back 1200ft of train blind! 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 29, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2019 One of my link jobs at Canton in the 70s was the 'Calvert Bricks', the empties of which we worked from Canton sidings to Swindon for relief (by Didcot men IIRC), picking up traffic and a vacuum piped van at Lawrence Hill on the way. The last part of the journey involved propelling the 50-wagon train of 'pipe' opens several miles along a 'long siding' branch over the former GC main line to the Calvert works of the London Brick Company, and the van was a manned leading vehicle for this part of the job. Loco was a Hymek until they were superseded by 37s. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 At rugby we had a couple of turns to the Southam cement works. The loco was always a class 25 with a varying mix of mineral wagons. We'd always drive from the leading cab to Marton Junction where the loco would run round and take the train on to Southam. Some of the drivers couldn't be bothered to run round so we'd propel the train to Southam. There was no guard, but the Rugby shunter, usually Noddy or Bungee, would ride in the brake van to do the run round and coupling. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR37414 Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 Thank you everyone for the replies. Very helpful information. My period is 1986-1993. I know for modelling purposes, the cabs seem a bit irrelevant but mainly for having headlights on/off as well the tail light markers. I have a railfreight liveried brake van that will serve as a shoving platform but was wondering how important it was to modify the lighting on my class 37s to reflect the changing of cabs or not. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 32 minutes ago, BR37414 said: I have a railfreight liveried brake van that will serve as a shoving platform but was wondering how important it was to modify the lighting on my class 37s to reflect the changing of cabs or not. Cheers! Some drivers would put reds on when propelling, some would leave the markers on and some would leave markers and headlight on, there wasnt a hard and fast rule, well there was but nobody seemed to bother complying. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 In the 80's and 90's there was a propelling move, of up to 12 bogies, from the middle road at Sheerness into the steel works, about a mile altogether. The move was controlled by two shunt signals. The driver certainly did not bother to change ends or marker lights!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 There was a propelling move on the West Highland, and I think it was a Queen Mary Brake Van that was used, trying to find out where I found this information just now Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 IIRC a Queen Mary brake van was for a while based at Falkland Yard Ayr, for propelling moves on the short-lived branch to Broomhill opencast (off the Dalrymple Jc/Chalmerston route). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR37414 Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said: There was a propelling move on the West Highland, and I think it was a Queen Mary Brake Van that was used, trying to find out where I found this information just now I saw a picture on Flickr today with a Queen Mary in the sidings at Crainlarich and it was mentioned that it was used for the timber flow from there to Corpach. The picture was taken in 1986, before RETB. Guess that was to avoid the runaround move at Mallaig Jct? Would share the picture, but sharing is disabled. Edited December 4, 2019 by BR37414 Added more info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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