edenbridge Tonbridge to Redhill Bankslip December 2019

[Pandora]

Bankslip at Edenbridge has left P-way damaged  predictions are an 8-week line closure for rectification

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Pandora

[Pandora]

Image of the slip

 

[Pandora]

Latest estimate is no longer 8 weeks but 12 weeks of closure

 

[russ p]

33 minutes ago, Pandora said:

Latest estimate is no longer 8 weeks but 12 weeks of closure

 

What's wrong with the other road?

[Robert Shrives]

I guess they are afraid of any vibration inducing more slip - closure also allows unfettered access to the site. I guess the tress are part of the root cause! with failed drainage and excessive rain has made the bank much wetter than normal - most of year trees soak up the water but in winter trees are much slower to absorb water . I am sure a very expensive solution will occur when many folk are advising on a return to older systems of managing drains and tree growth  so that over a five year period much of the wanton neglect is put right with new better drainage and no trees lineside/ much reduced trees lineside, giving a lot of wins - unless you like trees of course. - NR need an offset policy to use abandoned lines and by purchasing suitable land for a forestation project for save the planet type work.     

 

Of course it might be just bad luck it slipped where it did! 

Robert    

[Fat Controller]

The two lines pass over what appears to be a culvert; perhaps they're concerned the left-hand track will go the way of its companion?

[phil-b259]

As I understand it the earth is still moving!

 

Until it stops, NR are unable to plan remedial works properly.

[Nearholmer]

Not a new problem, in the sense that a high embankment on the line south of Tunbridge Wells failed in a similar circumstances probably c35 years ago now, and various cuttings in the Weald are forever trying to slump. It might be a drainage issue, and it might be a tree-related issue, but don't underestimate the challenges of keeping a big pile of dirt standing in prolonged wet weather, even if it is managed well, especially if it contains a lot of the sort of clay that is common in that part of the world.

[John M Upton]

Apparently to gain access to the site, a temporary road is going to have to be built across some fields and then cut through the embankment of the old spur line.  That is going to take a while in itself.

[Oldddudders]

8 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Apparently to gain access to the site, a temporary road is going to have to be built across some fields and then cut through the embankment of the old spur line.  That is going to take a while in itself.

Is that the old Crowhurst Spur? I hadn’t quite divined where this slip is. 

[John M Upton]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Is that the old Crowhurst Spur? I hadn’t quite divined where this slip is. 

This shows it, borrowed from Network Rail's Twit feed:

[Oldddudders]

Thanks, John. It is awfully close to the East Grinstead line. I'm sure the spur was still signalled when I first used the route in the early '60s. 

[Pandora]

The disused railway embankment is the reamins of the spur between Crowhurst South and North Junctions,  disused since 1955 other than diversions,  when was the track on the Spur lifted?

 

https://www.derekhayward.co.uk/OxtedtoEastGrinstead/Crowhurst-Junction/

[Pandora]

16 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

I guess they are afraid of any vibration inducing more slip - closure also allows unfettered access to the site. I guess the tress are part of the root cause! with failed drainage and excessive rain has made the bank much wetter than normal - most of year trees soak up the water but in winter trees are much slower to absorb water . I am sure a very expensive solution will occur when many folk are advising on a return to older systems of managing drains and tree growth  so that over a five year period much of the wanton neglect is put right with new better drainage and no trees lineside/ much reduced trees lineside, giving a lot of wins - unless you like trees of course. - NR need an offset policy to use abandoned lines and by purchasing suitable land for a forestation project for save the planet type work.     

 

Of course it might be just bad luck it slipped where it did! 

Robert    

The entire landscape of the area was flooded,  the failure of the landslip may not have even begun within the railway boundary,  I drove a train from Tonbridge to Redhill on the Sunday morning passing through the affected area at 0730 hours, no sign of the imminent failure of the formation,  but outside the boundary fence flooded fields including a soccer pitch with 3 feet of water up the goalposts

Edited December 26, 2019 by Pandora

[RFS]

More details and pictures here - https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-regions/southern/tonbridge-to-redhill-line-closure/

[jim.snowdon]

15 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Apparently to gain access to the site, a temporary road is going to have to be built across some fields and then cut through the embankment of the old spur line.  That is going to take a while in itself.

Very different from the days of the traditional railway, when labour was still relatively cheap and plentiful, and trainloads of replacement fill would have been taken to site using the other line and tipped or, more likely, shovelled out by hand. It probably wasn't as good a job, but the emphasis was on using practical expertise to get the railway open again rather than the minimal risk text book approach taken these days using road:rail plant and road access.

 

Jim

[phil-b259]

45 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Very different from the days of the traditional railway, when labour was still relatively cheap and plentiful, and trainloads of replacement fill would have been taken to site using the other line and tipped or, more likely, shovelled out by hand. It probably wasn't as good a job, but the emphasis was on using practical expertise to get the railway open again rather than the minimal risk text book approach taken these days using road:rail plant and road access.

 

Jim

 

The problem is such ‘bodge repairs don’t last. The ‘Chicken Curve on the Gloucester and Warkshire Railway being an example of how repeated ‘chuck a load of dirt in the hole back in BR / GWR days only made another skip inevitable.

 

As is normal theses days, NR will want to do a proper job that remains good for many decades. This will probably require the complete rebuilding of the embankment using geotechnical mesh layers, a less steep slope, Gibson baskets and possibly sheet piling.

 

That level of works cannot be delivered without road based construction plant - which in turn requires road access to the slip site.

 

It should also be noted that as with the Dawlish sea wall repair, making the site a straightforward ‘construction site’ (I.e. no need for specialist railway qualifications to be on site) greatly simplifies things.

 

The other thing to remember is that the Redhill to Tonbridge line is hardly one of the busiest lines in the SE. Shuttle trains are running between Tonbridge and Edenbridge (the section which has heavy schools related traffic) While Edenbridge also has a station on the Uckfield line which may be used for travel to Croydon / London. It’s only really passengers heading on the Edenbridge - Gatwick ax’s is that are particularly badly hit by the closure.

 

There is perhaps more of an issue for freight as Channel tunnel stuff gets sent that way when the Maidstone East line is under maintenance, while Tonbridge is a useful staging post for engineering trains.

[jim.snowdon]

You don't think I don't know that, but I do sometimes think that over reliance on standards has driven practical experience out of the railway.

 

Jim

[John M Upton]

I am wondering if any of our (Southern) 377's are trapped on the wrong side of the slip?  Getting them back will involve quite a round trip and some favours/overtime from South Eastern crew...

[Adam]

7 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

I am wondering if any of our (Southern) 377's are trapped on the wrong side of the slip?  Getting them back will involve quite a round trip and some favours/overtime from South Eastern crew...

 

Given that - apparently - they've been runnign a Tonbridge-Edenbridge shuttle, I guess that the answer is yes, but I'm away from home at the mo' so can't bike down the hill to check!

 

Adam

[duncan]

On 25/12/2019 at 20:15, russ p said:

What's wrong with the other road?

  

I think it has slipped from under it as well

[Pandora]

Recalling a conversation with a retired Railway Civil Engineer formerly involved with restoring a major  railway bridge,  " Todays Graduates just don't know how to go about making things anymore" I am sure the said engineer would have lifted out the panels and dropped a 1000 tons of ballast into the  voids on the line, relaid the panels and the service would be running with a 10 mph TSR until a better solution was devised

[eastglosmog]

7 hours ago, Pandora said:

Recalling a conversation with a retired Railway Civil Engineer formerly involved with restoring a major  railway bridge,  " Todays Graduates just don't know how to go about making things anymore" I am sure the said engineer would have lifted out the panels and dropped a 1000 tons of ballast into the  voids on the line, relaid the panels and the service would be running with a 10 mph TSR until a better solution was devised

Ah yes, the old order with ideas that the way to cure a large circular slip is to put more weight on the crest - as practiced by the NCB at Aberfan.  Fine if you don't care what happens in you neighbours land.

[EmporiaSub]

8 hours ago, Pandora said:

Recalling a conversation with a retired Railway Civil Engineer formerly involved with restoring a major  railway bridge,  " Todays Graduates just don't know how to go about making things anymore" I am sure the said engineer would have lifted out the panels and dropped a 1000 tons of ballast into the  voids on the line, relaid the panels and the service would be running with a 10 mph TSR until a better solution was devised

And then having to shut the line again for months when it slipped again, and needed doing properly.

often it was a case of get the job done and leave it for future generations to sort out.

Familiar for other things in today’s society as well.....

[EmporiaSub]

Never mind about bringing everything in to the site, the other issue is that for the next week or so, the replacement rail service is a bus between Redhill and Tonbridge.....

No doubt because NR require the use of one of their Mobile Operations Managers to operate the ground frame at Edenbridge, whereas in the past it would have been done from Edenbridge signal box.

Edited December 27, 2019 by EmporiaSub
Autocorrect!