If Colonel Stephens was around today; what rolling stock would he use on his light railways?

[Pandora]

Pacers of course!  Wonderful trains, they attracted their own fanclub and loyal following in the Sheffield / Barnsley area for one, rail staff appreciated their merits during their final months due their dependabilty over the replacement stock. sadly due to Covid their passing unnoticed. 

[lmsforever]

He would probably go round every scrap yard looking for something that could run and cost next to nothing could even apply for special status on financing,

[Hando]

6 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

He would probably go round every scrap yard looking for something that could run and cost next to nothing could even apply for special status on financing,

I strongly agree. He bought Gazelle for the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire Railway from Thomas Ward & Co of Sheffield, a scrap and shipbreaking company.

[Zomboid]

He'd probably be a player in the preserved diesel marketplace. Something simple and robust like a class 09, or maybe a 20 would probably be the kind of thing that a modern day light railway would want to use for any locomotive duties. There might be similar stuff available in the industrial field, but I don't know much about that. And likewise if the route in question was suitable and the price was right then importing something from Europe would be on the cards too.

 

And cheap DMUs (first gen or the much loved Pacers) for any passenger services, but I doubt there would be any worth speaking of. 

 

I can't see any modern successor messing around with something as labor intensive and inefficient as steam power.

[RJS1977]

What I could see a modern-day colonel doing is taking on either a freight-only or abandoned-but-still-reasonably intact branch line and reinstating a no-frills passenger service on it, probably with  low-cost or 'temporary' structures (if any) on wooden or breezeblock platforms.

 

Examples of such lines might include the Almwch branch, the Oxford Cowley (BMW) branch, the Brentford branch or even (prior to relocation of the ferry service and lifting of the track) the Weymouth Tramway!

 

Rolling stock as mentioned would likely be either withdrawn DMUs, repurposed Tube stock such as the Class 230s, or Parry People Movers - or even some DIY jobs. Possibly when the last Routemasters were withdrawn from front-line service in 2005, a pair might have lost their top decks, had the rear platforms opened out, and been coupled back to back on rail wheels....

[009 micro modeller]

A couple of scenarios:

 

For a really basic service for a small number of passengers (on either an original or ex-BR line), I feel like he might have acquired a few of these ex-military: https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/archive/image.htm?img=HU05546C&jpg=HU/HU05546.jpg&srch=&page=

 

They could also be regauged for some of his NG lines (Rye and Camber perhaps?), à la Welshpool’s Wasp; in terms of passenger comfort they would be a step up from a Wickham trolley or similar. Track wear would be low (requiring replacement less often) and there would be the flexibility to easily, cheaply and quickly build rail-level platforms for them, including at more remote locations less well-served by other forms of transport. In theory, they could be economic for very small passenger numbers and safe to operate with few staff on less well-maintained track. Freight could only really be local deliveries (possibly packages taken on passenger trains) or trainload freight exchanged with the national network (probably without the line owning any wagons itself), if there were any industries to serve that is. I imagine any such freight traffic would be hauled by cast-off BR diesels (probably some weird pilot scheme types in the 1960s/70s and class 20s today), unless the track was too light in which case industrial types might be used. In fact, nowadays it might just be directly worked over the line by a main line diesel (with appropriate bridge strengthening if needed) as is now done on the Barrington Light Railway.

 

Alternatively, he might have bought a load of trams when all the old tramways closed down in the 1950s and 60s, turning some of the lines into an early form of light rail in the modern sense. There was actually a report that suggested this at the time, so it’s not really so anachronistic. I seem to remember reading that something similar was planned on the Hayling Island branch. However, it’s unclear how such a line would have continued once these trams wore out and the supply of spares dried up, which would suggest a trajectory rather like Blackpool Tramway with some new stock needing to be built (although he did build new when this gave access to new technology that could save money, as with the Ford railcars). However, I find it difficult to believe that he would have paid to put trolley wires up to run second hand trams, and on some lines loading gauge for double deck trams would be an issue, so perhaps they would all be (or be converted to) single deck hauling a trailer with a diesel generator to provide power and extra seats to add capacity. However, unelectrified light rail implies that today’s stock would be variations on the Parry People Mover design, rather than, for instance, secondhand Metrolink electric trams.

 

On the other hand, we may be taking it a bit too literally. I read a magazine editorial a few years ago that considered this question and suggested that Stephens might be an open access operator if he was around today, with second hand HSTs etc. (a bit like the early days of Grand Central, perhaps). If you think about it, it’s not such a silly idea as it would still be serving a market not catered to by the big railway companies, and still using cast-off stock acquired cheaply, just like the Colonel’s original lines.

[PatB]

Given that the vast majority of freelance model railways require significant rewriting of history and/or geography in order to achieve even a minimal level of plausibility, I see no harm in postulating the continued existence of shoestring budget light railways. I agree that dismissing the inexorable rise of private and commercial road vehicles over the course of the C20th is a biggie, but one just needs to practice one's suspension of disbelief a bit (a lot, really).

 

I agree with previous posters that the spiritual successors of H F Stephens would likely be looking at Pacers, 230s, PPMs and suchlike for C21st passenger operations. For the 70s and 80s, perhaps the earlier withdrawn1st Gen DMUs, or, for loco haulage, well used Mk1s, much like the heritage railways of the era. Mk1s, being cheap, plentiful and with plenty of commonality of spares would definitely appeal to the Colonel's thrifty nature.

 

I'm not sure about loco types for freight or loco-hauled passenger duties. Certainly diesel, because steam is expensive if you need to pay people to operate it. Given the speed restrictions on light railways, 03s, 04s and 09s should all be adequate (not sure about 08s, but maybe), and, again, should all be relatively easy to obtain, maintain and acquire spares for. I guess redundant WR 14s would also be a possibility, but they would be a bit niche and require specialist knowledge of diesel-hydraulics to keep them fettled, so I think a Stephens would avoid them, even if cheap. I've no doubt that there are quite a few industrial shunters that would equally fill the bill, but I don't know enough about them to comment.

 

In the might-have-been stock department, I have a mental image of a pair of those boxy, Transit based minibuses that were everywhere in the 80s and 90s, coupled back-to-back, as the late C20th successor to the Model T based railbuses. As noted further upthread, maybe one of each pair could be partially or fully van bodied. I also think a similarly styled, 4-wheel centre coach to strengthen the set might be interesting (and pretty easy to scratchbuild from styrene sheet, as a bonus).

 

As long as one could ignore the stretched plausibility aspect, I think such a layout could represent an interesting and attractive project.

 

Edit: This is the type of thing I mean about the Transit minibuses. Not a hard build on a diecast Mk2 transit, apart from maybe getting the windscreen right. Though, as it would be freelance anyway, crudifying it, with a flat sheet windscreen could probably be made to work.

Edited February 10, 2021 by PatB

[RJS1977]

Trams.... now there's a thought - withdrawn ex-Blackpool units made redundant by modernisation, or Mark 1 Metrolink units (possibly converted to battery power....).

[009 micro modeller]

7 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

For a really basic service for a small number of passengers (on either an original or ex-BR line), I feel like he might have acquired a few of these ex-military: https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/archive/image.htm?img=HU05546C&jpg=HU/HU05546.jpg&srch=&page=

 

Out of interest, has anyone been inside one of these? I’m not sure what the interior is like and how many people would fit into it.

[RJS1977]

I can't help thinking that in recent years the Isle of Wight Railway has almost had a Colonel Stephens feel about it - two 80-year old secondhand passenger units, approaching the end of their days, with the strong possibility of either or both being out of service at any one time....

[CameronL]

These days I think Colonel Stevens' commanding officer would be more involved. His name?

 

General Confusion.

 

Or he might delegate the responsibility to his subordinate, Major Snagge.

[Zomboid]

4 hours ago, PatB said:

Edit: This is the type of thing I mean about the Transit minibuses. Not a hard build on a diecast Mk2 transit, apart from maybe getting the windscreen right. Though, as it would be freelance anyway, crudifying it, with a flat sheet windscreen could probably be made to work

The problem is those kind of things are so much better on rubber tyres, and wouldn't carry the volume of traffic to justify rail infrastructure. It would need to run through somewhere essentially without roads to justify a rail service of that kind, and the UK geography doesn't really have much of that where people actually live (bits of Alaska and Northern Canada are served by rail in that kind of manner, but they use heavyweight equipment - possibly something similar exists in other places, but I don't know much about it).

[PatB]

3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

The problem is those kind of things are so much better on rubber tyres, and wouldn't carry the volume of traffic to justify rail infrastructure. It would need to run through somewhere essentially without roads to justify a rail service of that kind, and the UK geography doesn't really have much of that where people actually live (bits of Alaska and Northern Canada are served by rail in that kind of manner, but they use heavyweight equipment - possibly something similar exists in other places, but I don't know much about it).

Oh, I agree entirely from a strictly rational perspective. After all, famous though they have become, I believe the Model Ts and their cousins were not hugely successful, rattling themselves to bits in a relatively short time. I just think it would make an attractive model. 

 

I would, though, contend that the whole point of a light railway is to minimise the cost of rail infrastructure by dispensing with such fripperies as comprehensive signalling, elaborate earthworks and rails thicker than what Triang were using c1960. Whilst that obviously still comes nowhere near economic plausibility, it does close the gap at least a little. 

[brushman47544]

Since cheap is not really compatible with PRM compliance, which I can't see Col Stephens being able to avoid, my guess is he would follow the previous practice of bustitution.

[Rivercider]

Like whart57 I will also have a suggestion for the Weston Clevedon and Portishead Railway, my local line.

 

As usual it needs a couple of big IFs.

If the line had managed to survive WWII there was still some mineral traffic from Black Rock quarry at the Portishead end of the line to sustain it until the mid 1950s (in fact this was road hauled to Portishead instead until the 1950s).

In 1954 the new Portishead station opened due to the original station site required for Portishead B power station.

This new station was much closer to the WC&P station, so I could see the WC&P line being diverted into the bay platform of the new station to make a proper connection.

By the 1960s Weston at the other end of the line had started to grow, Worle in particular started to expand through new housing estates including towards Ebdon Road WC&P halt. However the WC&P Ashcombe Road station was not close enough to the town centre or sea front. I propose that south of Worle Town the WC&P was diverted to run parallel to the Worle Junction to Weston General line along the Weston loop, possibly using the up loop line. Ashcombe Road station is abandoned.

There is now a useful Bristol-Portishead-Clevedon-Weston route clear of the main BR line for the most part. The Avon Metro now actually gets started, so a fleet of DMUs/EMUs/Trams is now required to work the service.

 

cheers  

[whart57]

It's not just that these lines need to survive WW2, but also that they need to get to the revival of light rail in the late 1990s. When we get to that period possibilities open up.

 

I offer up as an example the former LNWR branch to Coalport in Shropshire. Not a Stephens line admittedly but a single track branch that slowly expired as the industries it served expired alongside it. However, in the twenty years after the line closing for regular traffic new housing estates - part of Telford New Town - sprung up beside the line as did Telford Centre, a shopping and business complex. When these were built in the 1970s and 80s the planners thought only of cars and not of public transport. (I can tell you from personal experience that the bus services in the late 70s were infrequent and slow). It is not impossible that the planners of the late 90s would have instead converted the old branch line to something they would no doubt call a super tram or something. The conversion of Buildwas power station away from coal burning in 2010 would also give the opportunity to repurpose the line to the power station to be a branch to Coalbrookdale and Ironbridge as well. An ear-shaped line linking Wellington, Oakengates, Telford Town Centre, half a dozen housing estates and the world heritage sites of Ironbridge and Coalport? What's not to like?

 

The light railways and minor branch lines still running today as revenue lines (not heritage) have gained new purpose because of developments beside the line. That might have happened to the WC&P if it had lasted long enough to ride the wave. I don't think any other Stephens lines are in that position.

[The Lurker]

When I was a late teenager, and into my 20s, (so mid 80s to early 90s) there was often talk in Paddock Wood of "if only the Hawkhurst branch had survived" in reference to all the housing developments in Paddock Wood and then up the line at Horsmonden and Cranbrook, which it was felt would have generated commuter traffic in the same way as Paddock Wood had essentially transformed into a dormitory village. In reality a single track branch was not likely to be electrified which leaves you with a diesel service and having to change trains, in which case you would likely do what a lot of people do now*; drive to the station to get the train.

 

And of course the Hawkhurst branch, although not a light railway, was Stephens' first venture.

 

* I say "now". Most people are not essential enough to be doing that at the moment!

[Hando]

23 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

When I was a late teenager, and into my 20s, (so mid 80s to early 90s) there was often talk in Paddock Wood of "if only the Hawkhurst branch had survived" in reference to all the housing developments in Paddock Wood and then up the line at Horsmonden and Cranbrook, which it was felt would have generated commuter traffic in the same way as Paddock Wood had essentially transformed into a dormitory village. In reality a single track branch was not likely to be electrified which leaves you with a diesel service and having to change trains, in which case you would likely do what a lot of people do now*; drive to the station to get the train.

 

And of course the Hawkhurst branch, although not a light railway, was Stephens' first venture.

 

* I say "now". Most people are not essential enough to be doing that at the moment!

 

Southeast on the border with Kent, Camber has suffered yearly from horrendous congestion as holidaymakers cram the roads in order to get to the sands. I reckon that if the R&CT was still around today, the road traffic during the holiday season would be greatly alleviated as the line would have worked as an effective Park and Ride Scheme.

[009 micro modeller]

35 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

there was often talk in Paddock Wood of "if only the Hawkhurst branch had survived" in reference to all the housing developments in Paddock Wood and then up the line at Horsmonden and Cranbrook

 

I tend to think that the Newport Pagnell branch (i.e. now largely in Milton Keynes) is a similar example of massive post-closure development. The Hatfield to St Albans line is another possible example as the bus services that follow close to the route of the line are well-used and frequent, as are the rail services at each end (though not so well-used in the Abbey Line’s case).