Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[The Ghost of IKB]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

 

Duplicate post, sorry

Edited January 30, 2022 by The Ghost of IKB

[boxbrownie]

18 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Exploding motors, gigantic gaps between cars, dcc fit, basic interiors, giant capacitors and derailments aside, nobody seems particularly bothered by the bodyside joint line that in my opinion, albeit just from seeing pictures and YouTube reviews, completely spoils the model.

I'm wondering why it's not being mentioned?

I'd dearly love to have an APT, but the join, not to mention the rip off cost IMO put me off completely.

Does sound like a bit of a disaster, but TBH the join, interiors, coupling gaps would be acceptable if it were just a toy train, unfortunately Hornby are aiming at a higher market segment with the price.

[boxbrownie]

12 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

No sorry I’ll just make them from brass. 

Proper engineering 

[boxbrownie]

8 hours ago, letterspider said:

Is anyone else having a problem with their motor car derailing over points.

The bogies jump when running toe to heel - conseuqntly I can't go more than 50% speed before there is a derailment

My trackwork is PECO Code 100 and nothing else has problems running over it

Have you checked the B2B on the APT?

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

nobody seems particularly bothered by the bodyside joint line that in my opinion, albeit just from seeing pictures and YouTube reviews, completely spoils the model.

That’s your choice not to buy but no one else is going to do it for years now, I don’t find it noticeable at all and as discussed much earlier in the thread how would you do away with it? It’s a plastic moulding so it cannot have a single piece body with cavities without multiple slide moulds and they are phenomenally expensive compared to the tools they use for this. The only other option is the seam along the roof centre which is much harder to hide. You’d be looking several times the price to do it any other way, it’s just not feasible then for most of us to afford it. The body clips together tightly, it’s a pain to get apart as a result, and it’s the over bright lighting that highlights it in the dark. They could have made a step in the body side to shield that but it then creates issues with sink marks needing careful monitoring of mould temperatures and again adds more cost. The capacitors are poorly executed so I’ve disabled the interior lights as they look daft to me in daylight too and now the capacitor hardly shows. 
It’s better than the previous one, which was actually pretty good too, and the motor issues wouldn’t be a problem if they could ensure a decent supply of models and spares. The customer service and support is far more lacking than the model in my view  

Edited January 30, 2022 by PaulRhB

[andyman7]

I am curious to get to the bottom of the burnt out motors issue. I've tested my power cars but not at full chat and not for half an hour; and I suspect for quite a few buyers the model will spend more time on display than running. In terms of practical operation it is for me more of a trophy piece - workaday BR blue locos doing most of the plodding when I run things!

 

There is a (sort of) precedent with the Heljan class 17 first batch, where motor/chassis replacement had to be offered to manage the extremely high failure rate.

 

If it turns out that the motors fitted to the APT are in some way below spec, the main thing will be firstly to identify what the problem is and percentage likelihood of failure after a certain amount of time/power. These are sealed for life can motors so the next step is to make available suitable upgraded spares either for owner fitting or for the service centre to fit. Given that a second batch is planned for production and the issues will in any case need to be addressed I would assume Hornby will need to be examining the mechanism issue in any case. 

 

I personally don't want to get into the debate about why it happened or arguments about QC, price etc - I'm juts confining myself to the purely practical facts that as things go, this is the only RTR prototype APT that anyone is going to have access to for some time; and spectacular though it may be when the motor goes up in smoke, it is just the motor - provided a replacement is available it can be swapped out and the model made good again (under guarantee where appropriate)

[APT Fan]

I'm really quite shocked to read about people having to open up and repair a new product, I mean where would you stand in terms of the warranty if the self repair didn't solve the issue? I appreciate that fettling is a big part of the hobby, but this should work straight out of the box and it would be going straight back if it were me.

 

It also has me thinking, I picked up a brand new class 87 last week at an excellent price. I've only had it running on DC but was going to put a chip in when I got round to it. I'm now going to open it up at the earliest opportunity to inspect the main PCB for which I've seen numerous pictures illustrating faulty SMD soldering. I thought it might be isolated, but perhaps not so and I'd like some piece of mind.  

[PaulRhB]

7 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

I'm really quite shocked to read about people having to open up and repair a new product, I mean where would you stand in terms of the warranty if the self repair didn't solve the issue? I appreciate that fettling is a big part of the hobby, but this should work straight out of the box and it would be going straight back if it were me.

  

It depends on the issue, if you can clearly see something broken like the red pivot smashed or the motor burnout then yes I’d send it back. 
However once tested I decided to disable the lights in the driving trailers so had to get inside as the wiring is concealed. On powering up a second NDM it was a personal choice I knew invalidates the warranty technically but it was that or as I found out a week later wait for the new release sometime this summer to run the full rake happily on gradients  

Hornby created the issue with the dummy NDM so it was well tested before the swap and I’d just return it to factory setup if it had to go back. So the intrusive work was my choice in my case and those with a loose driveshaft had a simple choice of repair if confident or send it back. How long you’ll end up waiting for Hornby to repair is ongoing!

[zoomer1979]

14 hours ago, charliepetty said:

The website is now updated to reflect the model we have with sound and non sound options, you have to be loaded for the delux package, but some will be tempted.

We also have some refunds for Pre-Ordered Decoder sets !!!!!

 

https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=68&product_id=319

Well done Charlie for being considerate about different options and budgets for those who want to fit sound. Can I just check that the sounds used are the same ones from the video on Bif's YouTube from a good while ago?

 

Neil.

[letterspider]

What should the back to backs be on the wheels?

[InterCity80s]

My 7-car pack arrived in the week but today was the first chance I had to run it. I seem to have been more lucky than some as it runs fine without any issues. I ran a 9-car set with a single powered NDM and it seemed perfectly able to cope. I think I'll probably only be running an 8 or 9-car set normally so it's certainly powerful enough for my needs.

 

I did hear a slight screeching noise for about 2-3 seconds at one point when I was running it slowly but it disappeared as quickly as it arrived and I was not able to recreate it.

 

Ran the train for about 50 minutes in total.

 

Only negative was the couplings between the NDM and TBFs are quite fiddly and I managed to dislodge the pantograph at one point whilst coupling. Luckily it wasn't damaged and clipped back in easily enough. Something to be mindful of though when you're joining the whole thing up.

[InterCity80s]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

gigantic gaps between cars

 

They're really not that bad tbh. I was running mine around 3rd radius curves on a test oval and I don't think they could get around "train set" curves without fouling if they were any closer.

[boxbrownie]

57 minutes ago, letterspider said:

What should the back to backs be on the wheels?

14.5 mm

[rembrow]

I'm sure everyone has, so apologies for teaching grandmother etc, but worth repeating that the motors on the ndms should be run in at half speed for at least 30 mins in each direction, before trying to load the motor by weight and/or speed. Am in the process of running in my two, the first was much tighter than the second.

One thing that disappoints me with the set and additional coaches, is the level of glazing that has not been fixed flush, possibly it can move when tbe body sides are stretched to fit on the chassis.

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Proper engineering 

And significantly cheaper than replacing an ancient laptop, plus buying a printer & resin!  

The wire is actually working very well so I might not bother drilling brass bars and putting pins in the other screw hole. Sometimes simple answers do work out. Both the standard coupling bar and my wire solution could do with whiskers to stop them flopping sideways mind you  

[miles73128]

15 hours ago, scumcat said:

That’s a shame I had mine flying around my layout with 10 coaches. Managed to stop the wheel screech by simply oiling the axle boxes. The motor is a bit grumbly and loud at top speed but it certainly has power. I am really pleased. Yes it has cost but it’s been 40 years in the making. I couldn’t get the hunts couplings to work they don’t seem to be long enough. I have no where near train set curves but the coaches still fouled each other on the bends.

My Hunt couplings are fine on 4th. Have you got the right ones in order? Took me a while to work it out; MDM had the medium, TBF the long and the U the tiny small ones. Hope it works for you. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by miles73128

[miles73128]

7 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

My Hunt couplings are fine on 4th. Have you got the right ones in order? Took me a while to work it out; MDM had the medium, TBF the long and the U the tiny small ones. Hope it works for you. 

Oh and I’ve tested up to 16 cars in formation. No issues-though I’ve got twin MDMs as I found about 9 cars is the limit for a single MDM. And that’s on level track. 
opps NDM. But I’m sure you get the drift! 

Edited January 30, 2022 by miles73128

[Bigeddie]

12 hours ago, letterspider said:

Is anyone else having a problem with their motor car derailing over points.

The bogies jump when running toe to heel - conseuqntly I can't go more than 50% speed before there is a derailment

My trackwork is PECO Code 100 and nothing else has problems running over it

Hi I had this problem but only on one of my std insulfrog code 100 peco points, I have realigned the point and adjusted the levels with shims . It seems a lot better. 
 

there is still some noise on this point and a little on one of the others, but no derailment. Might be worth spending some time with a level and straight edge to get the points perfect?

[PaulRhB]

57 minutes ago, miles73128 said:

My Hunt couplings are fine on 4th. Have you got the right ones in order? Took me a while to work it out; MDM had the medium, TBF the long and the U the tiny small ones. Hope it works for you. 

I found I had to file off a bit of the frame on the U as they wouldn’t swing at all. 
 

[boxbrownie]

13 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I found I had to file off a bit of the frame on the U as they wouldn’t swing at all. 
 

Would they swing clear if the hunt coupling was mounted the other way up?

 

I bought some for normal carriages and noticed the centre part was slightly higher one way than they other (hope that makes sense).

[PaulRhB]

2 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Would they swing clear if the hunt coupling was mounted the other way up?

 

I bought some for normal carriages and noticed the centre part was slightly higher one way than they other (hope that makes sense).

It fouled the track the other way up pushing three coaches and I could see it catching spectacularly at speed pushing six  

[letterspider]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

14.5 mm

 

Hi measured 14.9 to 15mm on all wheels

 

So how can I carefully adjust this? Do I have to remove wheels from bogies or use a special tool?

Edited January 30, 2022 by letterspider

[PaulRhB]

Hornby couplings 

 

15mm wire ‘staples’

 

 

[PaulRhB]

45 minutes ago, letterspider said:

 

Hi measured 14.9 to 15mm on all wheels

 

So how can I carefully adjust this? Do I have to remove wheels from bogies or use a special tool?

Easiest with wheels out and a vice will do as it keeps the wheels square. 
 

Just ease them in very slowly using small part of a  turn and keep checking the b2b as you go. Pulling them out square if you overdo it really requires a wheel puller. 
 

[miles73128]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Would they swing clear if the hunt coupling was mounted the other way up?

 

I bought some for normal carriages and noticed the centre part was slightly higher one way than they other (hope that makes sense).

They are certainly tight. I’ve got away with it on 4th, but agreed very limited articulation. Note you can’t invert one coupling, has to be a pair in the same Orientation as the magnets polarity will be wrong. (I’ve fitted about 700 of these couplings so far now on my stock. TOTALY transformational.)