Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[WestRail642fan]

Should i wait for a third party to make better pantographs for the APT or do i stick with the stock pantographs

[zoomer1979]

7 hours ago, charliepetty said:

Basically they are yes,  but we have implemented additional features that the V5 Decoders memory allows.

 

 

 

 

 

Charlie

Thanks Charlie, great work as always. I did notice on the functions list there is no tilt pumps listed, as Kit says, they should be there and are the same as APT-E. Are they on there by any chance?

Neil.

[Wolf27]

51 minutes ago, WestRail642fan said:

Should i wait for a third party to make better pantographs for the APT or do i stick with the stock pantographs

Stick with it. Perhaps paint it to make less plastic looking. I cant see anyone making one for it. I dont know is the Bachmann class 90 pan will fit, minus the servo drive etc. It also depends if you have overhead catenary and want it to act like a working one. Its up to you but I wouldn't let it stop you enjoying the model.

[WestRail642fan]

1 hour ago, Wolf27 said:

Stick with it. Perhaps paint it to make less plastic looking. I cant see anyone making one for it. I dont know is the Bachmann class 90 pan will fit, minus the servo drive etc. It also depends if you have overhead catenary and want it to act like a working one. Its up to you but I wouldn't let it stop you enjoying the model.

its more so i would like to replace it as my one has trouble stay put when put into the raised position, just the movement of the NDM going around a curve is enough to cause it to drop

[lyneux]

1 hour ago, Wolf27 said:

Stick with it. Perhaps paint it to make less plastic looking. I cant see anyone making one for it. I dont know is the Bachmann class 90 pan will fit, minus the servo drive etc. It also depends if you have overhead catenary and want it to act like a working one. Its up to you but I wouldn't let it stop you enjoying the model.

 

I checked Bachmann spares last week and the 90 pans are not available (yet) as spares.

Edited January 31, 2022 by lyneux

[LongRail]

On 27/01/2022 at 17:31, APT Fan said:

 

Sorry yes, I meant upgrade from the old model to the new model, looks nice. I didn't write that very well. I'm surprised how different the colours are on the new model, didn't realise they got the old one so wrong, not that it has ever bothered me in the past. I'm currently and gradually replacing my old locos with newer ones mainly because I prefer the modern mechanisms more than anything else.

 

Hornby produced the original APT model before the real thing ran so not surprising the colours were wrong

[WestRail642fan]

TBF lights flicked out and now wont come back on

[amwells]

6 hours ago, WestRail642fan said:

TBF lights flicked out and now wont come back on

That’s an issue I have on one TBF. Do they flicker on if you wiggle the bogie though?

[Pete the Elaner]

10 hours ago, lyneux said:

 

I checked Bachmann spares last week and the 90 pans are not available (yet) as spares.

 

 

I remember a discussion about this when the 90s were new & some were saying that Bachmann would not produce it as a spare because it "was too much hassle" regardless of cost.

I argued that there was a price for everything but they may have felt the cost to justify it would have caused poor sales.

 

What I did notice in the instructions for my new Heljan 86 was a comment that the pantographs are available separately. Both of mine have the Faiveley type so I am not sure how good the Brecknall-Willis one looks & whether it will be suitable for the APT.

[Phil Parker]

I'm no expert on pantographs - I'm from the age when you replaced your car aerial with a coat hanger - but there might be some cheap options worth a look here: https://www.plazajapan.com/search-results/?q=ho pantograph 

 

I spent all my time looking at weird plastic kits, but you may prefer to stay in the trains section.

[Darius43]

20 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I'm no expert on pantographs - I'm from the age when you replaced your car aerial with a coat hanger - but there might be some cheap options worth a look here: https://www.plazajapan.com/search-results/?q=ho pantograph 

 

I spent all my time looking at weird plastic kits, but you may prefer to stay in the trains section.

I’m assuming that the prices are in Yen rather than £ Sterling…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Wolf27]

14 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

I’m assuming that the prices are in Yen rather than £ Sterling…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

I also assume they will be HO and underscale. 

[pwr]

This was the reponse I had from Hornby to my point about the need for a second powered NDM for the full rake

 

The 7 car APT set is sold with 1x motorised NDM unit, and one is enough to power that set, as sold. When looking to extend the train beyond this, it is advisable to purchase another motorised NDM. The one we had for sale alongside the original 7 car set is R3948. This has now sold out, but can be purchased from other retailers online, subject to availability.

 

My argument is that on the box it lists the extra coaches with reference numbers to make this a 14 car set. The extra powered NDM is not listed so I reckon this is misrepresentation. I should be able to return it under Distance Sellinig Regulations but that would not apply to the intermediate cars which which were bought by me and sold by the retialer in good faith in a seprate transaction. There is nothing wrong with them (igore capacitor issues) but why should the retailer take them back.

 

So I am left with the option of having to buy a powered NDM which Hornby have sold out of as has every other retaler I contacted meaning I have to pay an over inflated privce of £133 and wait until at least October and then the model is not the R3948 version its got a different running number so is inappropraite for the set. Yes I know I can change them but I think its wrong to be told after spending approx £900 for a 14 car set that they recommend another powered NDM before I can use it as such.

 

This is poor customer service and mighht have been avoided with proper testing and not that train set test rack Hornby use as seen on 'Hornby a model World'.

 

And then what do I do with a on powered NDM surplus to requirements!

 

In closing I am aware they are available on Ebay but I refuse to pay £179 (at the lastest lisitng) so somebody can make a quick buck.

 

Hornby need to up their game

 

Paul R

[TFR]

41 minutes ago, pwr said:

This was the reponse I had from Hornby to my point about the need for a second powered NDM for the full rake

 

The 7 car APT set is sold with 1x motorised NDM unit, and one is enough to power that set, as sold. When looking to extend the train beyond this, it is advisable to purchase another motorised NDM. The one we had for sale alongside the original 7 car set is R3948. This has now sold out, but can be purchased from other retailers online, subject to availability.

 

My argument is that on the box it lists the extra coaches with reference numbers to make this a 14 car set. The extra powered NDM is not listed so I reckon this is misrepresentation. I should be able to return it under Distance Sellinig Regulations but that would not apply to the intermediate cars which which were bought by me and sold by the retialer in good faith in a seprate transaction. There is nothing wrong with them (igore capacitor issues) but why should the retailer take them back.

 

So I am left with the option of having to buy a powered NDM which Hornby have sold out of as has every other retaler I contacted meaning I have to pay an over inflated privce of £133 and wait until at least October and then the model is not the R3948 version its got a different running number so is inappropraite for the set. Yes I know I can change them but I think its wrong to be told after spending approx £900 for a 14 car set that they recommend another powered NDM before I can use it as such.

 

This is poor customer service and mighht have been avoided with proper testing and not that train set test rack Hornby use as seen on 'Hornby a model World'.

 

And then what do I do with a on powered NDM surplus to requirements!

 

In closing I am aware they are available on Ebay but I refuse to pay £179 (at the lastest lisitng) so somebody can make a quick buck.

 

Hornby need to up their game

 

Paul R

 

The extra coaches to make the 14 car set was also listed on the Hornby website when I made the initial order (which was apparently 8th January 2020?!) - they didn't advise then that another motorised NDM would be needed so I share your annoyance here as I'd have ordered an extra motorised NDM at the time if they had

Edited February 1, 2022 by TFR
*Hornby website still doesn't mention the need for another motorised NDM if you want to create a later 14 car set

[boxbrownie]

15 hours ago, Wolf27 said:

And its HO isnt it? I modified my Stone Faively pan to raise higher and its seems to be ok. 

It may be HO but it is in fact slightly bigger than the Hornby plastic panto (such a difference I am wondering if the Hornby one is actually to scale?) the Hornby panto won’t even extend without flopping back down again, I had to use a bit of blacktack on the hinge to keep it extended for the picture.

Looking at them side by side it is the bottom arm which stands out as being so different…..I am keep looking, but not many pans with the three collector bars available.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Wolf27 said:

I also assume they will be HO and underscale. 

Not if they are the same as the HO one in my post above! 

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

I'm no expert on pantographs - I'm from the age when you replaced your car aerial with a coat hanger - but there might be some cheap options worth a look here: https://www.plazajapan.com/search-results/?q=ho pantograph 

 

I spent all my time looking at weird plastic kits, but you may prefer to stay in the trains section.

And I can vouch for Plaza, brilliant model shop. I bought most of my 2mm Kato stuff there when I went working in Japan (as well as TamTam) and they are excellent mail order suppliers.

[AshleyH]

Hornby could gain some goodwill here by producing an upgrade kit consisting of all the parts necessary to motorise the dummy power car from the 7 car train pack. If this was sold at a reasonable price, surely sub £80 , I think there would be a lot of interest.

wasn’t the R3948 single NDM liveried to match the 5 car train pack anyway, necessitating a body swap?

 

To redress the balance, I received my 7 car train pack yesterday, and so far it is faultless.  No damage to pantographs or bogies etc. Faultless livery application, I love some of the details such as the etched grills on the NDMs and driving trailers. I was initially going to pass and live with my 1982 version, but I saw a friend’s new 7 car train pack over the weekend and I opened my wallet!

Expensive, yes. Annoyed at the second 10% price hike, yes. But there are many 4 car EMUs around the £400 mark now from a certain blue box manufacturer, so 7 cars for a little over £500…..mmmm. 

 

 

[PaulRhB]

35 minutes ago, AshleyH said:

Hornby could gain some goodwill here by producing an upgrade kit consisting of all the parts necessary to motorise the dummy power car from the 7 car train pack. If this was sold at a reasonable price, surely sub £80 , I think there would be a lot of interest.

wasn’t the R3948 single NDM liveried to match the 5 car train pack anyway, necessitating a body swap?

I asked the question two years ago so they can’t claim they didn’t know  

 

On 12/02/2020 at 19:22, PaulRhB said:

So if we have ordered the 7 coach set and all the extension cars how do we upgrade to twin power? Does it need twin motors? If so it seemed frankly daft to offer the coaches if it can’t pull them! Do we really need to order another power car and throw away the body and unmotored chassis as I can’t see much call for it! 
Sorry but this should be clearer or Hornby are going to have a lot of complaints when people invest several hundred pounds in a full set if it won’t move itself. 

 

On 13/02/2020 at 03:18, PaulRhB said:

My apologies to Paul Isles as I thought he was here in the semi official capacity for these questions. 

I’ve asked Hornby direct following Rembrow’s post of their reply on the power cars. 
“Hornby

I’ve ordered the 7 car APT & coach packs to make a full set. I understand from Rmweb forum that it will only include 1 power car. Will this actually haul the full 14 coach set or will I need to motorise the dummy power car too? If we do need to motorise the second power car is there an option without buying another intended for the 5 car set only to get its chassis?
Thanks“

 

I’ll add their reply  

 

Paul replied saying they needed to test the prototype and would get back to us. Subsequently he left the company before they had it to test so I asked again in March last year after the prototype was on the Engine shed and never got a reply . . .

And yes the bodyshell needs swapping to use the separate NDM if you can find the initial one so best to wait for the 2022 separate one if getting it apart isn’t your thing. 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by PaulRhB

[SamThomas]

2 hours ago, Wolf27 said:

I also assume they will be HO and underscale. 

In that case they will match the track on most of the layouts they will run on .

[Wolf27]

In other news I will be collecting my overpriced and poorly made set later today. Then I will post multiple updates across all social media platforms expressing my dissatisfaction with a high cost low quality product. I will ensure the capacitors and pantograph are mentioned. 

[Ouroborus]

4 minutes ago, Wolf27 said:

In other news I will be collecting my overpriced and poorly made set later today. Then I will post multiple updates across all social media platforms expressing my dissatisfaction with a high cost low quality product. I will ensure the capacitors and pantograph are mentioned. 

 

While you're collecting yours, can you take mine back, only I've had to book an afternoon off work to do it?

[Wolf27]

15 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

 

While you're collecting yours, can you take mine back, only I've had to book an afternoon off work to do it?

Yeah sure, drop it round to mine and I’ll look after it. 

[rembrow]

2 hours ago, pwr said:

This was the reponse I had from Hornby to my point about the need for a second powered NDM for the full rake

 

The 7 car APT set is sold with 1x motorised NDM unit, and one is enough to power that set, as sold. When looking to extend the train beyond this, it is advisable to purchase another motorised NDM. The one we had for sale alongside the original 7 car set is R3948. This has now sold out, but can be purchased from other retailers online, subject to availability.

 

My argument is that on the box it lists the extra coaches with reference numbers to make this a 14 car set. The extra powered NDM is not listed so I reckon this is misrepresentation. I should be able to return it under Distance Sellinig Regulations but that would not apply to the intermediate cars which which were bought by me and sold by the retialer in good faith in a seprate transaction. There is nothing wrong with them (igore capacitor issues) but why should the retailer take them back.

 

So I am left with the option of having to buy a powered NDM which Hornby have sold out of as has every other retaler I contacted meaning I have to pay an over inflated privce of £133 and wait until at least October and then the model is not the R3948 version its got a different running number so is inappropraite for the set. Yes I know I can change them but I think its wrong to be told after spending approx £900 for a 14 car set that they recommend another powered NDM before I can use it as such.

 

This is poor customer service and mighht have been avoided with proper testing and not that train set test rack Hornby use as seen on 'Hornby a model World'.

 

And then what do I do with a on powered NDM surplus to requirements!

 

In closing I am aware they are available on Ebay but I refuse to pay £179 (at the lastest lisitng) so somebody can make a quick buck.

 

Hornby need to up their game

 

Paul R

I suggest Hornby's answer is itself a misrepresentation, as clearly the separate ndm was not intended for the 7 car set. Why do I say that, well I have the box in front of me and the outer cover is printed with a red flash at the corner 'sets 370 003 & 370 004'. Those sets are depicted in the 5 car pack not the 7 car pack. The separste ndm also has the earlier fittings, related to the 5 car set - no red lining at the roof cantrail and the earlier stone faiveley pantograph. I did make a decision to buy the separate ndm early on and have had to change the body and pantograph with that of the dummy ndm.

The 2022 planned releases seem to have the same issue  with the new ndm (2022 version) numbered for the 2022 5 car pack.

[E100]

I've now written in to express my disappointment that the second power car is required for all but the most favorable running. I do suggest however that a spare being made available would go some way to appease me. There's no point buying a full spare NDM only to take it apart. 

 

If others are of a similar mind then I'd encourage you to also do so.