Bulleid 2HAP EMU

[SRman]

Hear hear! Well said, Mark.

 

Colin, keep on boring us as much as you like!!

[Ceptic]

Hi Dave,

 

Re. couplings between BR 2 HAP coaches, I've been thumbing through all my books. I have found another picture, in Brian Golding's book 'A Pictorial Record of Southern Electric Units' on p.151. The photo is of the end a de-coupled Bulleid 4SUB trsiler coach (later series). This clearly shows a three-link coupling, held up by passing the brake pipes through the last link and tied with twine/thin rope as well, to keep it from hitting the track.

 

What you can see in the picture of the BR coach in that semgonline link (excuse the pun) seems to be a three-link coupling too. It has been tied back over the central buffer, to the brake pipes. The coupling links were longer than those on unfitted wagons as the links were permanently fixed under the headstocks. As oldddudders has said, the EMUs had permanent couplings and it would be interesting to know how the units were coupled up. I presume the buffers must have been compressed fully, then the link ends could be bolted in place.

 

Bearing in mind this topic is meant to concern the building of a model of the Bulleid 2 HAP, all my sources are relating to those particular units.

 

Regards,

 

Colin

 

Indeed, Colin.

The Sun has just broken through the overcast, and I can now see what you mean Thanks..

Please accept my apologies, everyone, for my throwing a spanner (tommy-bar) into the works .

I would like to retract my statement that the inner couplings were screw-link, Sorry. .

 

Regards.

 

P.S. Did the depot's shunters actually walk around with a large ball of twine, in their pockets ?. They must have got a few funny looks .

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

Great to here from you again......guessing the refurbishment on the "workshop" is now complete.

I think everyone here will agree that you could never bore us with too many pictures of the quality of your amazing workmanship.

Look forward to seeing and reading more on your progress.

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark,

 

Yes, I am at it again!

 

If the weather permits I am going to take a picture of the first 2 HAP with the racks installed. They show up best with some back-lighting. There will also be a picture showing how I nearly set the motor coach on fire. Never again will a DCC fitted loco be put on the "main track" before the wiring has been checked.

 

It seems to me that there is a gap in the market for good quality MU fittings - or is there a supplier I have missed? The latest build is going to have improved (hopefully) front end fittings, but they are a fiddle to make. What have you used on the 3H?

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Indeed, Colin.

The Sun has just broken through the overcast, and I can now see what you mean Thanks..

Please accept my apologies, everyone, for my throwing a spanner (tommy-bar) into the works .

I would like to retract my statement that the inner couplings were screw-link, Sorry. .

 

Regards.

 

P.S. Did the depot's shunters actually walk around with a large ball of twine, in their pockets ?. They must have got a few funny looks .

 

 

No problem Ceptic,

 

It seems that the depot staff did have to improvise with twine in such circumstances.

 

Colin

[Ark Royal]

Hi Mark,

 

It seems to me that there is a gap in the market for good quality MU fittings - or is there a supplier I have missed? The latest build is going to have improved (hopefully) front end fittings, but they are a fiddle to make. What have you used on the 3H?

 

Colin

 

Hi Colin,

 

I haven't at the moment though you may remember I sent the drawings for them to be produced some 6 months ago.

 

 

Unfortunately though I have pestered the company about them it seems "impossible" to get a date. I have kinda given up on this company but can't find an alternative manufacturer in the UK though there must be one out there somewhere?

 

I have heard however that a certain kit company may already have beaten me to it , though this is still only on the grapevine.

Will check and get back to you.

 

Mark

 

PS Look forward to the luggage rack photos

[Colin parks]

Here are a few photos of the second HAP. I have been looking closely at the pictures posted by Dave Smith on page 8 of this topic and hopefully have corrected the details that I had got wrong the first time.

 

 

This shot shows what I hope is the correct arrangement of the emergency brake gear on the inner end, plus the water tank filler pipes. These are now held in brass brackets with the end of the pipe turned slightly outwards. (The end is not yet complete with all conduits).

 

The driver's cab side window opening and:

 

 

The second-man's side window, which is narrower. This time the grab handles on the cab sides and fronts are made from .009" guitar string. This will be about scale diameter when painted.

 

 

I have added brass strips to represent the bottom hinges. They are super-glued into slots in the sides. Also different from the first HAP is that there is more support for the sides between the windows. This will reduce the gap between the partitions and sides, plus there will be somewhere to fix the corridor handrails.

 

 

This one shows the water tank filler pipes - what a job to bend them up!

 

Colin

[Oldddudders]

These are mutt's-nuts good Colin! Your bottom hinges look pretty convincing, too. Did you get into Coachmann's technique for these a while back? Sadly some of his posts and pics disappeared a few weeks back, although he himself is back on board. Whatever, I am seriously impressed again! Keep 'em coming, please!

[dasatcopthorne]

Colin.

 

I hate to say this but better said now than later.

 

You have a slight mis-interpretation on the emergency brake gear on the carriage ends.

 

They don't drop at an angle, they are verticle.

 

What you see is best described as a 'wire' or thin rod dropping from the tell-tale down to a lever on the end on the horizontal bar. The lever is pulled up which twists the bar which, in turn, operates a valve in the small box.

 

Hope that description is clear.

 

Dave

[ozzyo]

If all this sounds confusing, that is because this particular subject has no clear explanation, unless we hear from an old railwayman who actually knows. Any ideas oldddudders?!

 

Colin

 

 

Hello Colin,

 

if you mean what the triangle signifies, its dead easy its the guards van end.

 

OzzyO.

[Colin parks]

Colin.

 

I hate to say this but better said now than later.

 

You have a slight mis-interpretation on the emergency brake gear on the carriage ends.

 

They don't drop at an angle, they are verticle.

 

What you see is best described as a 'wire' or thin rod dropping from the tell-tale down to a lever on the end on the horizontal bar. The lever is pulled up which twists the bar which, in turn, operates a valve in the small box.

 

Hope that description is clear.

 

Dave

 

Thanks Dave,

 

It's out with the knife then. It won't be too hard to change, though the new parts will be quite delicate. I'm glad you took the trouble to tell me. I must say it was hard to make out what they looked like or how they operated from photos.

 

Colin

[dasatcopthorne]

Thanks Dave,

 

It's out with the knife then. It won't be too hard to change, though the new parts will be quite delicate. I'm glad you took the trouble to tell me. I must say it was hard to make out what they looked like or how they operated from photos.

 

Colin

 

 

Colin.

 

it's best seen in the second to last of my photos on page 8, where the mechanism is in silhouette.

 

Dave

[Colin parks]

These are mutt's-nuts good Colin! Your bottom hinges look pretty convincing, too. Did you get into Coachmann's technique for these a while back? Sadly some of his posts and pics disappeared a few weeks back, although he himself is back on board. Whatever, I am seriously impressed again! Keep 'em coming, please!

 

Hi oldddudders,

 

I am following Coachmann's posts with great interest, but I had the idea myself to use metal as the plastic bottom hinges on the first 2HAP kept breaking off.

 

The bottom hinges are fitted like those of David Jenkinson. He used strips of plasticard wedged into holes. It looked convincing even in 7mm scale. I prefer to drill two no. 76 dia. hole and open them out inot a slot with the tip of a knife blade, then press the hinge into place and trim when the glue is dry.

 

The one thing that struck me about David Jenkinson's construction techniques, after reading through his book on carriage building, was that he perfected a method which suited the style of coaches he was building. So I am going to try to perfect a method here for building

SR EMUs that suits me. Notwithstanding all the little errors I keep making, it is getting easier to make the parts, having done it once before.

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Colin.

 

it's best seen in the second to last of my photos on page 8, where the mechanism is in silhouette.

 

Dave

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

I've had another look at your photo. Now you explain it, I can see what is going on.

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

I haven't at the moment though you may remember I sent the drawings for them to be produced some 6 months ago.

 

 

Unfortunately though I have pestered the company about them it seems "impossible" to get a date. I have kinda given up on this company but can't find an alternative manufacturer in the UK though there must be one out there somewhere?

 

I have heard however that a certain kit company may already have beaten me to it , though this is still only on the grapevine.

Will check and get back to you.

 

Mark

 

PS Look forward to the luggage rack photos

 

Hi mark,

 

I missed your post somehow. It would be interesting to know who is going to produce the fittings!?

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

A shot of the roof of the first HAP motor coach looking up inside.

 

Here is a cautionary picture of how not to wire up a DCC decoder: I had a Gaugemaster chip tucked nicely under the van end roof. Somehow the wiring to the DCC socket got, shall we say, "confused". The curious thing was that it didn't affect the running with a blankimg plug in and running the motor on analogue. Then when it came to installing the decoder, things became even more confusing and the wiring to the motor bogie became swaped. If only I had looked at the picture of the motor bogie on this topic, it owould have been clear which side the red lead went to.........................

 

 

Well,it went on the track, yes the main one, full power. There was a lot of smoke and an acrid smell of twenty pound''s worth of decoder being cremated - it took seconds. I was very lucky not to have melted the roof. All is well now and no lasting damage. I have left the black mark to remind me never to do that again.

 

The next photo is really here to ask dasatcopthorne if the emegency brake gear is now correct. From your photos of the prototype, I have deduced this arrangement of rodding. The craft knife is at the ready, just in case it's wrong.

 

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

A small improvement to the production of running boards: The first HAP had plain strips of plasticard fixed to the solebars, When it came to adding a representation of the brackets, it meant I had to attach 44 individual pieces spaced at 24mm intervals - not easy. This time the 20 thou sheet was cut to length, marked out and strips fixed with solvent. The boards were then parted-off and shaped at the ends. This has saved at least an hour of fiddling around.

 

 

This photo shows the underside of the frshly cut boards. The festive glass of wine is just out of shot.......

 

Colin

[dasatcopthorne]

 

 

The next photo is really here to ask dasatcopthorne if the emegency brake gear is now correct. From your photos of the prototype, I have deduced this arrangement of rodding. The craft knife is at the ready, just in case it's wrong.

 

 

Colin

 

'Perfik' as David Jason would say.

 

Cheers

 

 

Dave

[5Bel]

Hi Colin,

 

This truly is inspirational work for us Juice fans. I wish I had the skills to scratchbuild one unit, let alone two if them. I have Goulding's book, so one day I might pluck up the courage to have a go.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Colin parks]

'Perfik' as David Jason would say.

 

Cheers

 

 

Dave

 

 

Thanks Dave,

 

I'm not so sure it is "perfik" yet! I've looked at your pictures again and seen that there are levers and cable where I have just put a vertical piece of 0.4mm plastic rod. Modelling the levers is one thing, but rerpresenting the wire? The cab side windows have been revised again, they were 0.5mm too deep. I have altered them with a flllet of 20 thou. plastic strip on the bottom edge and re-profiling the frame. This makes the window area the correct depth.

 

The Southern Pride commode handles are on too. I had to fill and re-drill the lower holes in the sides, having forgotten to alter my original drilling jig.

 

I am going to model unit 5601 as in the pictures. It does seem to have a slightly larger BR arrow logo in the photos of it at Brighton. When were those pictures taken?

 

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

This truly is inspirational work for us Juice fans. I wish I had the skills to scratchbuild one unit, let alone two if them. I have Goulding's book, so one day I might pluck up the courage to have a go.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

 

Thanks for the comment Ian.

 

Having seen your 2 HAP build, I'm sure you could do it! It has ocurred to me that the best introduction to scratch-building EMUs would be to start with a Departmental conversion = less windows to cut out! There are some sketches on this topic. With so many parts available from the trade, it is really only necessary to cut out the sides and fit them to a bodyshell to produce somethign a bit different.

 

Withregard to the "book": "it ain't necessarily so" - as the song goes. It is a good starting point for research, but as I have found out, photos of the real thing are invaluable.

 

Colin

[5Bel]

Hi Colin,

 

I might try a departmental 2Hal stores unit first. As you say the book is a good starting point for dimensions. I am aware there are some innacuracies and I I always use photos, SR Emu's are a minefield!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Colin,

 

I might try a departmental 2Hal stores unit first. As you say the book is a good starting point for dimensions. I am aware there are some innacuracies and I I always use photos, SR Emu's are a minefield!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

 

 

Ian.

 

Do you mean 023 type Stores unit?

 

If so I can help with some measurements, sketches and photos.

 

Dave

[Colin parks]

Ian.

 

Do you mean 023 type Stores unit?

 

If so I can help with some measurements, sketches and photos.

 

Dave

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

Re. the stores vans

 

That would be interesting to see maybe just a photo of unit 023 to see how much work it would be.

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

I might try a departmental 2Hal stores unit first. As you say the book is a good starting point for dimensions. I am aware there are some innacuracies and I I always use photos, SR Emu's are a minefield!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

 

 

Hi Ian,

 

The 2 HAL would be a good choice. Most parts would be common to the 2BIL. That would leave you only the sides to make. Branchlines sell the parts to convert a Kirk 2 BIL to a 2HAL including the cab and cab roof. You would need Kirk 2 BIL kit of course - unless you scratch-built the rest............

 

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Well, well ,well - 10" of snow.

 

So I made start on the bogies last night: I am using Kirk ones again, and this will be a caution for anyone using them on a 2 BIL etc. After cutting out the 8ft bogie side frames, it soon became obvious that the holes for the wheel bearings are way off-centre. The errant holes have now been filled with some scrap sprue (always worth keeping a bit). Hopefully I can re-drill the holes in the correct alignment tonight. Luckily, the trailing pick-up bogie does not have this problem.

 

 

The photo shows the nature of the mis-alignment, including the lug which locates stretcher moulding to the side frames. Having checked the first HAP, I found it also had this defect. I had not noticed that the axles are slightly diagonal and that the bogie sideframes were not exactly opposite each other.

 

We are snowed in here, so giant leaps in the construction process are anticipated in the next few days.

 

Colin