Bulleid 2HAP EMU

[Colin parks]

Hi Guys.

 

 

Sorry I have only just stumbled on tis thread. I don't know why I haven't looked in this subject heading before.

 

Brilliant modelling, far beyond my efforts.

 

Now to upset you, but a bit of info for future builders of these(and other BR(SR) Emus)

 

I have a set of side-on photos taken at Brighton as I walked along the platform, so these could help(a bit late for this one though). I think I also have the SR drawing for the roof conduits together with pictures taken from overbridges.

 

I have probably measured some of the underframe items as well, but I would have to confirm this.

 

I suppose you could say I made a habit of getting photos of this sort of detail. So if I can help, please let me know.

 

 

Dave Smith

 

Hi Dave,

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a few of those pictures.

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Some work in progress shots of the cab fronts and those door handles.

 

The front ends now have all the MU cable detailing. Next time I will use brass for the fittings, these plastic parts look a bit over-scale. The paint finish will need a little correction. The transfers are in a rather delicate state, having had their carrier film removed carefully with white spirit, I must now varnish the bodies to keep everthing in place. Fun and games were had chopping up the numbers on the sheet to get the right ones for my chosen unit. That 'Guard' transfer will have to be replaced with something applied level. The finish of the lettering is much better without the film and there will be no silvering effect. The position of running numbers seems to vary between units. I have copied the layout of unit 5611. It could be that the first batch of five units delivered in 1957 were different to the ones of the 1958 batch, or that different depots had their own ideas about these things when the units came in for re-painting.

 

 

This next photo, again with some work needed to tidy things up, shows the new door handles from Eileen's Emporium. I was able to get the other handles out without causing any damage. I have reduced the length of the handles, out which scaled out at about 6" as supplied. A few strokes of a file on each end made them just right. Many thanks to Ark Royal for not only the suggestion of using these components, but also sending me a few for assessment. (Yes, the door bangs are to be painted black (?) Mark!)

 

 

It now is a race against time to get at least the external detail and basic interior work finished before going on holiday. Also my worshop is being re-roofed, so the layout must be moved out - along with everything else in there. There could be a long gap in this thread later this month!

 

Colin

[Ark Royal]

Hi Colin

 

 

Fantastic and Awesome Work, Looking Great

 

 

Mark

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin

 

 

Fantastic and Awesome Work, Looking Great

 

 

Mark

 

Thanks Mark,

 

Things are beginning to look worth the effort! I haven't counted, but this project must have taken about 200 hours so far! Admittedly, much time has been spent on experimenting and changing things, so it all goes down to experience gained for the next time.

 

The grab handles on the cab fronts and driver's doors would have been better made from .009" guitar string, as the .011" ones now look too thick with the paint on. Varnishing is under way.....

 

Colin

[2ManySpams]

Very impressed with the detail you've managed to build in to this model. Proof that the art of scratch building isn't dead. Going to follow up on the T handles - they look much better than the ones i've been using to date.

[Colin parks]

Very impressed with the detail you've managed to build in to this model. Proof that the art of scratch building isn't dead. Going to follow up on the T handles - they look much better than the ones i've been using to date.

 

 

Thankyou for your comments 2ManySpams,

 

I have decided that scratch-building is not dead but just restricted to the more obscure models unavailable as RTR (in 4mm at least). I have enjoyed all the ups and downs of this build, there have been plenty of RMweb people who have given constructive advice both on the consruction and where to find the detail components. I will be compiling a list of all the parts I have used, where they came from and how much they cost.

 

It hasn't been a cheap project. At first it seemed as though I would just need a few sheets of plasticard and some wheels - how wrong I was! The total cost will be in the region of £175.00, although there are many spares for the next model.

 

Colin

[Steph Dale]

Colin,

 

It's great to see this nearing completion. You must be at the really pleased/really nervous stage if you're anything like me. Mind you, I have a reputation for stuffing up perfectly good paint jobs...

 

I'm not surprised with your comments on the cost. Though I must confess I was surprised when I first did the rough calculation of how much my coach has cost. Around £140 I think. There are a couple of odd thoughts though: I had to buy my plasticard in bulk as I needed larger sizes than normal so I've got enough of even the thinner stuff for about another 5 to 10 coaches. And enough 0.080" for at least another 20!

 

The other thing is that it's given me the opportunity to 'cherry pick' the parts I use on the model, rather than sticking with (or putting up with) what's in the kit. Often buying those parts in small quantities means they cost more and/or I've got parts left over. I think if I'd gone for more affordable parts and been more selective about the materials I ordered, I could probably have built the coach for around half the current bill.

 

If I was to do another 'Continental' (oh ****, no!) I think I've got enough of everything other than the roofs and bogies so it would be very affordable. Like you say, I'll continue to do the odd bit (and some of it is very odd!) of scratchbuilding, but generally only if it's because the prototype I'm after isn't available as a decent kit. And with the area/timescale of interest that means I'm likely to be scratchbuilding quite a few carriages.

 

I'm looking forward to your next installment.

 

Steph

[dasatcopthorne]

Hi Dave,

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a few of those pictures.

 

Colin

 

 

Colin.

 

Sorry for the delay, but had to look them out. Here are a selection of my SR 2 Hap piccies.

 

Dave Smith

[zarniwhoop]

Colin.

 

Sorry for the delay, but had to look them out. Here are a selection of my SR 2 Hap piccies.

 

Dave Smith

 

Nice pics - apart from the detail, and the dents on S16017S and its neighbour, it looks as if these units were among those that suffered marks from the carriage washing plant.

From colour pics, I've only noticed white streaks on CEPs in kent and the 4-CORs up until now. You make me wish I'd taken more pics of that 'new' stuff when it appeared in the Brighton area.

 

ĸen

[Oldddudders]

Nice pics - apart from the detail, and the dents on S16017S and its neighbour, it looks as if these units were among those that suffered marks from the carriage washing plant.

From colour pics, I've only noticed white streaks on CEPs in kent and the 4-CORs up until now. You make me wish I'd taken more pics of that 'new' stuff when it appeared in the Brighton area.

Carriage washing wasn't - maybe isn't - a high-tech operation, and suffered from all sorts of influences. In them thar days, the plants used a solution of Exmoover. A sack or two was tipped into a mixing tank, the mixer was turned on, and then it was pumped into the ready tank for the washer. Individual plant operators had their own ideas about the ideal strength for the solution, too. There was also, on any day, an ideal "pickling" time for the Exmoover to sit on the coach side before going back through the washer to rinse.

 

Problem 1 - if a unit has just gone through the washer, the last vehicle will be the first back through the rinse, and the first to be pickled will be the last to be rinsed - see the problem? Maybe not a big issue if it's a 2HAP, but quite a difference in pickling time if it's a 12-car.

 

Problem 2 - note I said an ideal pickling time on any day. Temperature and humidity play a big part here - with higher temps making the acid more active, and breeze and/or rain perhaps whipping some of it off before it's had time to be effective.

 

Problem 3 - Winter. Once temperatures drop towards freezing, washing becomes distinctly dodgy. It's not so much the plant that can't cope, but the water left on the running board may well freeze - resulting in a very hazardous train indeed, so washing stops abruptly. During the next few days or weeks, according to the length of the freezing conditions, trains run about getting de-icing fluid off the conductor rail all over them, but until the thaw, they can't be washed. Suddenly temperatures rise - but the trains are now filthy, with misted windows, the lot. Hand bashing with Wundagunge now starts, with operatives on ladders using paint brushes to apply this even nastier substance, and using Stanley blades to try to clear the windows. Several rinses through the machine may be needed, and again the optimum pickling time is a huge factor in success.

 

As you can see, a less than scientifically-controlled process altogether, so white streaks and real damage to paintwork were hardly a surprise. I hope they do it better now, with sequential plants optimising the result.

[Colin parks]

Colin.

 

Sorry for the delay, but had to look them out. Here are a selection of my SR 2 Hap piccies.

 

Dave Smith

 

Many thanks for the pictures Dave. I can see all the parts now that could only be guessed at from the drawings. There are a great number of small errors on the model - that will teach me! Especially good are the roof shots. I still can't see how the emrgency brake pipes run on the inner ends. Do you have a picture showing them?

 

One thing it is not too late to do is have go at reproducing the white streaking which had been on my mind to do anyway.

 

The location of the unit is Brighton isn't it?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Glazed and confused.

 

The 2 HAP is now getting closer to completion. Oh how I wish I had seen Dave Smith's pictures three months ago!

 

I have had a devil of a job with glazing. It has been difficult to get the glazing to sit flat against the sides, due to the curvature being slightly different. Oh how I wish this was a flat-sided unit!

 

 

 

I will try and rectify the problem, which could be caused be the commode handles and the superglue fouling the glazing strip recess. Next time the handles will go on before assembly of the bodysides so that the glazing can be fitted and proved to fit perfectly.

 

Mike Trice's topic is worth a look for solutions to this kind of problem.

 

Colin

[dasatcopthorne]

Many thanks for the pictures Dave. I can see all the parts now that could only be guessed at from the drawings. There are a great number of small errors on the model - that will teach me! Especially good are the roof shots. I still can't see how the emrgency brake pipes run on the inner ends. Do you have a picture showing them?

 

One thing it is not too late to do is have go at reproducing the white streaking which had been on my mind to do anyway.

 

The location of the unit is Brighton isn't it?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

 

I have some more photos for you but had to re-install my old SCSI Scanner and this has disbled my wireless network.

 

Soon as I can transfer them from my older computer, I'll upload them for you. Probably later this afternoon.

 

Dave

[Colin parks]

I have some more photos for you but had to re-install my old SCSI Scanner and this has disbled my wireless network.

 

Soon as I can transfer them from my older computer, I'll upload them for you. Probably later this afternoon.

 

Dave

 

No problem Dave.

 

Having taken a closer look at your photos, I now think that the emergency brake pipes did not have a horizontal run from side to side. I had used a 4 SUB picture for reference - wrong! The changes could be made without too much work. I have also noticed that my model has the emergency brake (those little white 'levers') set in the 'on' position!

 

Interestingly, I have had a look in the Brian Golding book, 'A Pictorial record of Southern Electric Units' (the one with the plans), it shows 5601 at Redhill. The BR 'arrows' and numbering are all postitoned higher up the body sides than in your pictures. So it must be that either there was a different style depending on where the unit was repainted or that at some point BR changed their gudelines on where to put the lettering. Both your photo and the one in the book show this unit as having the white staining, so that must have been a very common problem throughout the unit's time in service.

 

Colin

[BernardTPM]

The staining below the windows was due to the cleaning fluids used (IIRC they contained oxalic acid). If insufficiently rinsed after application it would lead to the white marks seen in the photos.

[dasatcopthorne]

No problem Dave.

 

Having taken a closer look at your photos, I now think that the emergency brake pipes did not have a horizontal run from side to side. I had used a 4 SUB picture for reference - wrong! The changes could be made without too much work. I have also noticed that my model has the emergency brake (those little white 'levers') set in the 'on' position!

 

Interestingly, I have had a look in the Brian Golding book, 'A Pictorial record of Southern Electric Units' (the one with the plans), it shows 5601 at Redhill. The BR 'arrows' and numbering are all postitoned higher up the body sides than in your pictures. So it must be that either there was a different style depending on where the unit was repainted or that at some point BR changed their gudelines on where to put the lettering. Both your photo and the one in the book show this unit as having the white staining, so that must have been a very common problem throughout the unit's time in service.

 

Colin

 

 

Hi Colin.

 

Right.

 

Below are a few more that might help here and there.

 

I have played with the contrast/brightness so that you can better see what's going on in the darker areas.

 

I hate to mention this, but have you fallen into the trap of having the off-side cab side window the same size as the near-side(drivers)one?

 

Why not use the NNK etched version.

 

Still a brilliant model though. Far surpasses mine.

 

Dave

[Colin parks]

For dasatcopthorne:

 

These are fantastic detail shots Dave.

 

Sadly, they show how far short I have fallen in getting it right with this model. Yes, I have fallen into that trap re. cab side window sizes. I used the Golding drawing which shows both sides being the same size. I have also checked the drawing which came with my friend's NN Kits Bulleid 2 EPB - that also shows the side windows as being the same size as each other! I am now really confused. Are the NN Kits' parts different to their drawings I wonder? I was unable to obtain any parts for this model from NN Kits anyway.

 

Certainly, the cab roof ventilators are really set further back from the front than I have put them based on the Golding plans. I can also see a few items of underframe equipment that are wrong. I shall have to put this all down to experience I suppose and correct what can be corrected without damaging the whole lot! Glazing is the highest priority at the moment.

 

Thanks,

 

Colin

[dasatcopthorne]

For dasatcopthorne:

 

These are fantastic detail shots Dave.

 

Sadly, they show how far short I have fallen in getting it right with this model. Yes, I have fallen into that trap re. cab side window sizes. I used the Golding drawing which shows both sides being the same size. I have also checked the drawing which came with my friend's NN Kits Bulleid 2 EPB - that also shows the side windows as being the same size as each other! I am now really confused. Are the NN Kits' parts different to their drawings I wonder? I was unable to obtain any parts for this model from NN Kits anyway.

 

Certainly, the cab roof ventilators are really set further back from the front than I have put them based on the Golding plans. I can also see a few items of underframe equipment that are wrong. I shall have to put this all down to experience I suppose and correct what can be corrected without damaging the whole lot! Glazing is the highest priority at the moment.

 

Thanks,

 

Colin

 

I have had discussions with others about the Golding plans.

 

You are probably begining to realise what form those discussions took.

 

However, I am surprised at the NNK plans because I thought I had given Alistair enough info for him to get it right.

 

I'll have another look at the few I have of his.

 

Dave

[Ceptic]

Hi Colin.

 

Right.

 

Below are a few more that might help here and there.

 

I have played with the contrast/brightness so that you can better see what's going on in the darker areas.

 

I hate to mention this, but have you fallen into the trap of having the off-side cab side window the same size as the near-side(drivers)one?

 

Why not use the NNK etched version.

 

Still a brilliant model though. Far surpasses mine.

 

Dave

 

 

Super photos, Dave. Great detail *.

 

Also, one heck of a good looking model Colin. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

 

I had noticed the different sized cab side windows before adding some pics to another RMweb 3 tread (Photos of Bournemouth in the 80s). This comparable pic shows a Bulleid 4-EPB / 2-EPB.

 

 

The feature was carried forward onto the 1st. generation BR Std. Mk.1 EMUs, EPBs, HAPs. CEPs etc, including the early DEMUs. Bachmann have, certainly, picked up on this, with their 4-CEP.

 

I think it was when the 2nd. generation EMUs appeared, CIGs, REPs, VEPs etc., that the windows became the same size. I could be wrong though.

 

Cheers. Frank.

 

* P.S. Dave, Have you any more photos of different units ?. I, for one, would greatly appreciate them, if you have.

Cheers again.

[dasatcopthorne]

Super photos, Dave. Great detail *.

 

Also, one heck of a good looking model Colin. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

 

I had noticed the different sized cab side windows before adding some pics to another RMweb 3 tread (Photos of Bournemouth in the 80s). This comparable pic shows a Bulleid 4-EPB / 2-EPB.

 

 

The feature was carried forward onto the 1st. generation BR Std. Mk.1 EMUs, EPBs, HAPs. CEPs etc, including the early DEMUs. Bachmann have, certainly, picked up on this, with their 4-CEP.

 

I think it was when the 2nd. generation EMUs appeared, CIGs, REPs, VEPs etc., that the windows became the same size. I could be wrong though.

 

Cheers. Frank.

 

* P.S. Dave, Have you any more photos of different units ?. I, for one, would greatly appreciate them, if you have.

Cheers again.

 

 

Frank.

 

Different SR 2Haps or different types of unit?

 

Dave

[Ceptic]

Frank.

 

Different SR 2Haps or different types of unit?

 

Dave

 

Dave, Apologies for my lack of clarity.

 

I should have said...'any types of SR / BR(S) units ?'. Both EMU & DEMU.

 

Thanks for your fast reply.

 

Cheers, Frank.

[dasatcopthorne]

Dave, Apologies for my lack of clarity.

 

I should have said...'any types of SR / BR(S) units ?'. Both EMU & DEMU.

 

Thanks for your fast reply.

 

Cheers, Frank.

 

 

Yes I have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thing is, I have 1000's and I couldn't start scanning them all, I'd never stop. I'm sure you understand.

 

What I normally offer to do is to find the specific items someone needs to made a particular model.

 

I'm mainly a modeller so have gone out with specific intent to get the sort of shots you see above. Some years back I also had a few opportunities to measure some units and make quick diamgrams of important areas.

 

So I have things like the sizes of windows, the spacing of roor conduits, the length of handrails etc., etc., but they don't cover all units. I only started in 1973 ish.

 

So, if you are building a unit,let me know what you need and I'll see what I have.

 

Dave

[Ceptic]

Yes I have.

 

 

Thing is, I have 1000's and I couldn't start scanning them all, I'd never stop. I'm sure you understand.

 

What I normally offer to do is to find the specific items someone needs to made a particular model.

 

I'm mainly a modeller so have gone out with specific intent to get the sort of shots you see above. Some years back I also had a few opportunities to measure some units and make quick diamgrams of important areas.

 

So I have things like the sizes of windows, the spacing of roor conduits, the length of handrails etc., etc., but they don't cover all units. I only started in 1973 ish.

 

So, if you are building a unit,let me know what you need and I'll see what I have.

 

Dave

 

 

Cheers Dave.

 

I certainly do understand what you are saying regarding time and getting diverted from intended projects.

 

What I've got (sort of) on the go, at the moment are a Branchlines Maunsell 2-HAL / Ian Kirk 2-BIL conversion, an Ian Kirk 2-BIL, a DC Kits BR 2-HAP and 2H DEMU. All in various stages of completion, with not much happening on them, as I'm making a determined effort to get the layout up and running.

When I eventually get back to modelling rolliing stock, would it be possible, via a similar thread to Colin's, here, to request some of your relevent photos to be posted in ?

 

Many thanks, Frank.

[dasatcopthorne]

Cheers Dave.

 

I certainly do understand what you are saying regarding time and getting diverted from intended projects.

 

What I've got (sort of) on the go, at the moment are a Branchlines Maunsell 2-HAL / Ian Kirk 2-BIL conversion, an Ian Kirk 2-BIL, a DC Kits BR 2-HAP and 2H DEMU. All in various stages of completion, with not much happening on them, as I'm making a determined effort to get the layout up and running.

When I eventually get back to modelling rolliing stock, would it be possible, via a similar thread to Colin's, here, to request some of your relevent photos to be posted in ?

 

Many thanks, Frank.

 

 

With pleasure mate.

 

Dave

[Colin parks]

Super photos, Dave. Great detail *.

 

Also, one heck of a good looking model Colin. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

 

I had noticed the different sized cab side windows before adding some pics to another RMweb 3 tread (Photos of Bournemouth in the 80s). This comparable pic shows a Bulleid 4-EPB / 2-EPB.

 

 

The feature was carried forward onto the 1st. generation BR Std. Mk.1 EMUs, EPBs, HAPs. CEPs etc, including the early DEMUs. Bachmann have, certainly, picked up on this, with their 4-CEP.

 

I think it was when the 2nd. generation EMUs appeared, CIGs, REPs, VEPs etc., that the windows became the same size. I could be wrong though.

 

Cheers. Frank.

 

* P.S. Dave, Have you any more photos of different units ?. I, for one, would greatly appreciate them, if you have.

Cheers again.

 

Thankyou for that conclusive picture Ceptic.

 

I think that now shows conclusively that the plans I have show the cab side windows as being all like those on the DMBSO. I will no say any more about NN Kits actual model, as I could not be certain from the picture on their website. The plan I have seen of their DMBSO is correct.

 

I thought dasatcopthorne meant the windows were different on each side of the cab i.e. driver's side large and smaller on the opposite side. There is not much hope of me changing the DTCL now without major surgery.

 

Colin