HS2

[John Tomlinson]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

the site of tinsley is now home to a massive distribution centre for hundreds of lorries by Wincanton distribution for M&S.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/pojx1BpxY6zzvBa49?g_st=ic
 

It goes against all your green arguments. Despite the obvious rail access, theres not even a siding connected to this site.

 

Whilst twanging a harp about reducing peoples mobility to grow trees, the large progenitor of travel isnt passengers, but freight.. and its going by road in thousands of lorries… to a place where by design could handle even more freight than the site has been converted to serve by road.

 

Theres green agendas and theres hidden green agendas.

 

Stopping peoples mobility doesnt solve the green argument, it just causes resentment. You have to wonder the motives of those behind it.

 

i will add further those espouseing green arguments on line are causing more environmental damage than those taking a train… by the heat generated in the IT facilities supporting the internet, network, servers, switches of their internet posts.

 

Green agendas arent what they claim imo… it goes againt hundreds of thousands of years human evolution to “tell people to stop travelling”… even if we go full north korean, the rest of the world will not…

 

Embrace travel, make it green… focus on the madness of places like Tinsley rather than proposals that could lead to splitting up families, putting businesses under and encouraging “related families” by virtue of returning to a life of sitting on tree stumps around a pond all day.

 

part of hs2’s argument isnt partying in Newcastle, but making freight capacity on the wcml to solve some of these issues.

I think the whole implementation of Hs2 has been done wrong and is an exercise in victorian thinking, but I do back the principle of why its needed, just not the how its being done.

 

Far be it for me to impose strains on servers. Nor do I have a hidden agenda.

 

Surprised you missed the fact a couple of the former reception sidings, at the east end of the Tinsley site, are very much connected to the national network and there is an intermodal transfer facility. Several trains a day to/from, inc. Felixstowe and IIRC London Gateway.

 

Historically, if you think the demise of Tinsley is remotely related to HS2 then dream on.  It was all but closed thirty years ago, and a shadow of its original intent long before that. That demise had nothing to do with capacity of the network, nor was the demise of the other "Modernisation Plan" marshalling yards, which also were constructed on the basis of extrapolation by straight lines. Broadly, "it's been like this for decades, and so will carry on being, so here's big, expensive project assuming further growth on the same path, with some extra efficiency". Put like that, sounds a bit like HS2 if you think about it!

 

If you want a discussion about climate change or nature decline, this really isn't the place. And as far as "twanging harps" goes, somewhat rude IMHO, we're done here.

 

John.

Edited September 18, 2023 by John Tomlinson
added second para, "surprised...."

[Ron Ron Ron]

Quite a bit of HS2 and some of ballast trains on EW Rail.

Finall, some footage of EW Rail at Bletchley......

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

HS2 works in the Aylesbury area.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

Construction of another vastly expensive "Green Tunnel" under nothing, is underway at Greatworth, Northants (approx. 6 miles east of Banbury and 3 miles north of Brackley).

 

The construction design, appears to be similar to the one at Chipping Warden, just 5 miles to the north.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[adb968008]

57 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Construction of another vastly expensive "Green Tunnel" under nothing, is underway at Greatworth, Northants (approx. 6 miles east of Banbury and 3 miles north of Brackley).

 

The construction design, appears to be similar to the one at Chipping Warden, just 5 miles to the north.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wait…

 

thats this location…

https://maps.app.goo.gl/GmK6WBo7JQk1DGA26?g_st=ic

 

its just fields and a few houses… have they dug a cutting and are going to bury a tunnel here ?

 

why ?

 

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Wait…

 

thats this location…

https://maps.app.goo.gl/GmK6WBo7JQk1DGA26?g_st=ic

 

its just fields and a few houses… have they dug a cutting and are going to bury a tunnel here ?

 

why ?

 

It's a one and a half mile tunnel - it gives the town of Greatworth relief from the incessant noise and vibration of a 2 track electrified mainline.

[phil-b259]

49 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Wait…

 

thats this location…

https://maps.app.goo.gl/GmK6WBo7JQk1DGA26?g_st=ic

 

its just fields and a few houses… have they dug a cutting and are going to bury a tunnel here ?

 

why ?

 

 

Because politicians feel the need to pander to NIMBYs rather than grow a backbone!

[woodenhead]

16 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Because politicians feel the need to pander to NIMBYs rather than grow a backbone!

Actually it's more basic, it's for votes - if I upset the constituents they won't vote for me next time or my local party office won't support me.

 

So we end up with additional expense which gradually builds over time, it's not as if there are not precedents from the past with landowners refusing to agree to railways unless they were buried and out of view of the big house.  But generally a tunnel should be there to get through terrain.

[APOLLO]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Once you leave the cities much of our land is still green and pleasant.

 

Correct, especially here up north. I certainly don't want to see hoards of Londoners (etc) coming up here on day trips with their jellied eels, pie & mash with liqueur and smelly cockles !!! 

 

Perhaps we don't need HS2 after all !!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[adb968008]

16 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

Correct, especially here up north. I certainly don't want to see hoards of Londoners (etc) coming up here on day trips with their jellied eels, pie & mash with liqueur and smelly cockles !!! 

 

Perhaps we don't need HS2 after all !!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

Could say the similar in the south, and not wanting northerners down here bringing dodgy pies and weak beer.

 

perhaps theres something in restricting free movement afterall

 

Pimms for the south, I say watto.

🤪

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by adb968008

[Bernard Lamb]

Louise Haigh made the comment in the HoC that when HS2 trains eventually start to run, it will take longer to get from Birmingham to Central london via Acton than it does on the WCML at present.

Bernard

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

It's a one and a half mile tunnel - it gives the town of Greatworth relief from the incessant noise and vibration of a 2 track electrified mainline.

 

The line passes less than a quarter of a mile from the edge of this small village (population approx. 900).

There's only a very small village store, one pub and a church in what appears to be a dormitory settlement for nearby Banbury, or places further afield.

 

There are no other villages or significant settlements along this stretch of the line, so a tunnel is total overkill.

Enough earth has been dug out to form the cutting, which could have been used to re-profile the landscape along this stretch of line, on the village side and along with tree planting, could have provided a suitable sound barrier.

 

If that wasn't sufficient, then in addition, an array of loudspeakers could have been set up, to blast out the Archer's theme tune during operational hours, to drown out any residual railway noise.

 

Seriously though, how much extra is this "Green Tunnel" costing, compared to a cutting with visual and noise mitigating measures?

£100m,  £200m,  £300m   ....more?

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Louise Haigh made the comment in the HoC that when HS2 trains eventually start to run, it will take longer to get from Birmingham to Central london via Acton than it does on the WCML at present.

Bernard

 

That would depend on where you were heading for in central London.

Once you add on the time saving, it's a close call in many cases.

Anywhere close to the EL or with a better tube connection from the EL, as opposed to routing via Euston and HS2 probably just wins.

Canary Wharf, or Heathrow, it's a no brainer.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add that Euston will be a lot quicker for many other end destinations.

That was part of the original plan anyway, to spread the expected HS2 load across the London transport network through 2 London stations, rather than one and overloading the underground.

 

 

.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[adb968008]

52 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

That would depend on where you were heading for in central London.

Once you add on the time saving, it's a close call in many cases.

Anywhere close to the EL or with a better tube connection from the EL, as opposed to routing via Euston and HS2 probably just wins.

Canary Wharf, or Heathrow, it's a no brainer.

 

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Louise Haigh made the comment in the HoC that when HS2 trains eventually start to run, it will take longer to get from Birmingham to Central london via Acton than it does on the WCML at present.

Bernard

Ive been saying it since October 24th 2018.

Quote

Today Euston is a 90 minute connection from South London, with HS2 it will remain so. That HS2 will offer Brum in 1 hour than 2 hours is irelevent when the car does it in 2 hours today and will still do so tomorrow with much more flexibility.

Those in North London will still find their current arrangements suitable as will those in the west...

if your in south london (thats south, not kent / thameslink) this does nothing for you.

Your still stuck with victoria / waterloo and a tube to Euston, now OC.

 

By the time youve done that, your past Bicester on the M40 in a car from home.

Without the Manchester stretch, the car will beat the train to an end destination up north, similar to how it does now.

HS2 timings only really worked for point to point travellers.. those living by the station travelling to a place by the station.

With regards canning Euston, Ive always been against this underground palace and felt XR should be the route….

Kind of feels like getting worse than you wished for with the new proposal.

 

my first line said it all..

 

 

 

 

 

The costs ballooning beyond our Argentinean style governments ideas was another one the bookies would never give odds on.

i’m not saying I told you so, I just recognise political BS. I just see how useless the UK political system has been since ww2.

Whilst I dont like Andy Rantsalot Burnham, I suspect he too knows it all too well.
 

Where does it all go next ?

 

1. HS2 will be the ugly baby no government wants to own, but cannot give up.

2. BA has never flinched in the whole HS2 project, when it comes to arriving in london they knew LHR will beat OOC any day.

3. In the end.. shorter trains, premium fares, XR plays a bigger role.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by adb968008

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Could say the similar in the south, and not wanting northerners down here bringing dodgy pies and weak beer.

Now that's just fantasy. I'm in the Midlands so I can look at both from afar.

I remember when one of the London beers (red Barrel?) was so weak, that another 0.5% (?) off the ABV and it could be sold as pop!

I don't think any of the Manc's beer was that weak.

[adb968008]

7 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Now that's just fantasy. I'm in the Midlands so I can look at both from afar.

I remember when one of the London beers (red Barrel?) was so weak, that another 0.5% (?) off the ABV and it could be sold as pop!

I don't think any of the Manc's beer was that weak.

What a beer in Manchester is brewed at, and what happens between the barrel and the tap in Manchester are the subject of many legends.

 

Now I have a Geordie friend,  likes to be the big man at parties. On a stag do in Brussels rocks up with a challenge, that whoever orders the weakest beer in the round has to do a shot first in the next round.

We all eyes down on our beers, and lo behold it turns out he was drinking a 2.8% Belgium beer.. we just sat back and watched the excuses roll out line after line…

 so much so on his stag do, we all dressed as 118 118 guys (afro hair and moustache’s) from those tv ads, except replaced 118 on the tshirts with 2.8.

Edited September 18, 2023 by adb968008

[Ron Ron Ron]

24 minutes ago, melmerby said:

......I don't think any of the Manc's beer was that weak.

 

When I wurra lad, we thought "Boddies" was the bee's knees.

In later years I realised it was almost tasteless dishwater, regardless of its strength.

 

Give me a few bottles of Manchester Star Ale though (J W Lees).........that's a great dark beer and 7.3% ABV, it's a nice soother to end the day on.

 

.

[Mark Saunders]

2 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

When I wurra lad, we thought "Boddies" was the bee's knees.

In later years I realised it was almost tasteless dishwater, regardless of its strength.

 

I wouldn't go that far but when the throughput went up the quality went down!

[Northmoor]

4 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

When I wurra lad, we thought "Boddies" was the bee's knees.

In later years I realised it was almost tasteless dishwater, regardless of its strength.

 

Give me a few bottles of Manchester Star Ale though (J W Lees).........that's a great dark beer and 7.3% ABV, it's a nice soother to end the day on.

 

.

Unless HS stands for Hangover Stories, can we return to something to do with UK High Speed rail please?

[adb968008]

41 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Unless HS stands for Hangover Stories, can we return to something to do with UK High Speed rail please?

Will HS2 stock even have a buffet car ?

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

If you can put up with the length of this video (...and the commentator's weedy voice), it's a recent view of the OOC site, including Victoria road and the Willesden logistics terminal.

 

A few things he missed out.

 

He didn't point out the piling work taking place for the GWML part of the station. 

It surprises me that there is currently only one piling rig in evidence, but you can see a supply of piles lined up nearby.

 

He mentions the TBM's at Victoria Road, but that's just the cutting heads and shield assemblies.

You can see the large collection of modules that will make up the full train of the TBM's further towards the OOC end of the Victoria Rd site, next to the conveyor system.

 

No mention of the incomplete section of conveyor at Victoria Rd, that will be installed later to take the spoil from the Up bore.

You can see the bridge section over the road, adjacent to the installed conveyor, without anything attached at either end.

 

The one Victoria Rd conveyor that is in use, will be reconfigured to take spoil from the Down bore TBM excavations, when that stage is reached and the 2nd conveyor will then be installed for the other TBM.

 

The TBM’s tunnelling from here will not be going out to the countryside, as he says, but will go a few km's to Greenford, where they will meet the tunnels currently being bored from West Ruislip.

 

The view of Willesden was interesting, as there was only a fraction of the spoil seen about 6 months ago, when there were vast mounds of it covering the yard.

I expect that will change again once tunnelling commences?

 

Here it is.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ron Ron Ron

[MidlandRed]

5 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Actually it's more basic, it's for votes - if I upset the constituents they won't vote for me next time or my local party office won't support me.

 

So we end up with additional expense which gradually builds over time, it's not as if there are not precedents from the past with landowners refusing to agree to railways unless they were buried and out of view of the big house.  But generally a tunnel should be there to get through terrain.

I have to beg to differ with you here - there are several ‘green’ tunnels on HS1 protecting villages like Boxley, Hollingbourne and Harrietsham from excessive noise - environmental mitigation effectively. 
 

I recall a few years back sitting in the garden of a very pleasant gastro pub in the rural North Downs, not too far from Maidstone when I heard an appalling din which sounded like a jet plane - followed closely by another - it took me a couple of minutes to realise it was a Eurostar train passing on HS1, a mile or so away, and located on an embankment/over bridge. Now the M20 is not too far away from it but that is more of a background hum that you don’t even notice after a while - the noise from the Eurostar is something that is very intrusive. Lots of noise fencing and other techniques like earth bunds are in place also. 
 

So I’m not surprised HS2 is having these items. Yes we need the scheme, but let’s not destroy the environment and people’s home environments in the process - these environmental features and mitigations are essential (same on road projects). 
 

I just want to know when the arches are to be painted yellow/gold 😃

 

No doubt votes do come into the equation as well but environmental studies will have been carried out across a broad range of subject areas and mitigations of all sorts incorporated. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by MidlandRed

[woodenhead]

What level of tunnelling is proposed outside of the Chilterns?

 

I know they plan(ned) to tunnel into Mancheser, but like London that more related to the lack of space than any noise mitigation.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

drinking a 2.8% Belgium beer

I don't think I found anything anywhere near that low in Brussels.

BTW if you are there visit Cantillon Brewery and try some Geuze, quite different from UK stuff.

 

I've got a nice bottle of Trippel in the drinks cupboard waiting to be quaffed.

[DenysW]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Without the Manchester stretch, the car will beat the train to an end destination up north, similar to how it does now.

With the semi-mandatory stop for 20-60 minutes southbound at Luton on the M1 to admire the presence of traffic cones and absence of workers?