Hornby 42XX/52XX and 72XX any recent upgrades

[GWR-fan]

With Hattons offering the 42XX in their bargain section,  I am curious if Hornby ever improved the drives from the original design clever philosophy.  The lack of brass bearings and square axle cutouts prevented me from purchasing the original R31XX series when announced many years ago.  I did particularly want the GWR versions at the time but decided on common sense rather than buying a flawed drive.  Since then I have shied away from even more recent model numbers due uncertainty as to the quality of the mechanism.  The older R31XX series  72XX models now go for silly money,

[robmcg]

Can't speak for longevity of bearings but I think Kernow have a R32XX 42XX rather cheap right now, as do some other retailers. I think.

 

Any with the raised running plate over the cylinders are likely to be a bit bent in that area, but to be honest I haven't heard of any, even including the first lot with square bearings, wearing out.

[GWR-fan]

Rob,

        many thanks

[Hilux5972]

I believe they did add brass bearings to the later versions. Maybe the R32xx version but I’m 99% they were most definitely on the R34xx versions. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Hilux5972
Spelling correction

[GWR-fan]

Many thanks

[tomparryharry]

This supposed bearing issue is a bit of a red herring. The weight of the model is resting on the 4 cut-outs which are 'supposed' to be bearings. In real life, it's a bit of a no-no. But with a model (and a lightweight model, to boot) wouldn't have the necessary weight ability to carve a  way through the chassis. I surmise there will come a point where the bearing area matches the cut out in the chassis (the hornblock crown) to equalise the supposed wear pattern. 

 

To me, the lack of knackered 42xx's on 'Bay suggests that the supposed  problem doesn't exist. Or.... The problem is yet to rear its ugly head. For a lightweight model like this, I'd respectfully suggest the former. 

 

Poor execution? Certainly. Failure, or flawed?? Hmm. The jury is still out........

 

Ian.   

[The Johnster]

My 42xx has brass bearings which ‘float’ in the axles and locate into rebates int the bottom of the chassis block, an update on the ‘design clever’ chassis.  The loco is a very smooth runner which has so far (touch wood) given no mechanical bother whatever. 

[tomparryharry]

1 minute ago, The Johnster said:

My 42xx has brass bearings which ‘float’ in the axles and locate into rebates int the bottom of the chassis block, an update on the ‘design clever’ chassis.  The loco is a very smooth runner which has so far (touch wood) given no mechanical bother whatever. 

 

I don't think you will have any issues with the chassis wearing through John. The locomotive isn't heavy enough to cause any issues with the downward thrust of the axlebox crowns. There will be a 'sweet spot' where the downward thrust equals the resistance of the bearing (axle) surface. I wouldn't think anyone is remotely near that yet!

 

Ian.

[didcot]

I have one off each from the original batch. I especially wanted 7202 ( I have just made some motion pins for the full size version at home). I didn't know I would be doing them at the time of purchase, but it was a Didcot engine! All three performed satisfactorily on DCC. The only issue being a flimsy bracket holding the socket. It was forced back onto the flywheel, but some fiddling with tweezers managed to get the decoder fitted. They were in regular use until 2016 which is when they got packed up for a house moved and haven't been out since.

Edited March 3, 2020 by didcot

[GWR-fan]

Thankyou all.  

[OnTheBranchline]

Were sprung buffers ever fitted to newer releases? I opened my 42xx up last night after a few years and I forgot that there weren't any.

Edited February 25, 2023 by OnTheBranchline

[tomparryharry]

You will need to check, but ISTR that non-sprung buffers was seen as a 'de-merit' when first released. One of he first 'design clever' models from Hornby. I think that a sprung variety is available nowadays.

 

I'd suggest that Hornby (or others ) could gain a unique selling point, by offering the revised model in different operating guises. The DCC-Sound version being pretty much as-is, whereas for non-DCC Luddites (like me) can have a stronger motor, and a significant increase in weight. The current 72xx model can't handle 35 iron ore wagons, which they did in real life. I did  make some lead inserts for the side tanks, but bu66ered if I can find them... 

[Capel]

On 25/02/2023 at 11:57, OnTheBranchline said:

Were sprung buffers ever fitted to newer releases? I opened my 42xx up last night after a few years and I forgot that there weren't any.

Don't believe so. I have R3463 52xx 5231 which has non-sprung buffers.

[wappinghigh]

I want to model one of the preserved 72XX class. One with a raised (curved) footplate over larger cylinders.

Which basic Hornby "R" (or any other manufacturer) should I start with? Thanks 

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, wappinghigh said:

I want to model one of the preserved 72XX class. One with a raised (curved) footplate over larger cylinders.

Which basic Hornby "R" (or any other manufacturer) should I start with? Thanks 

Hornby made 7202 and 7229, but not in preserved condition.

 

R3128 Class 72XX 2-8-2T 7229 in late BR Black
R3127 Class 72XX 2-8-2T 7202 in GWR Green

 

none have yet run in preservation, the only class of Barry locomotive yet to be restored.

 

7200 is at the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre and making steady progress, looks like its on the final straight, but has been for sometime.

7202 is at Didcot Railway Centre and is meandering alone, its looks substantially complete and painted since 2008!

7229 is at the East Lancashire Railway and made lightening progress and was partially reassembled, but stalled c2000  and went largely back to Barry condition  until 2019, before being fully  reassembled, painted, but then dismantled once again.

 

unfortunately it seems reliant on a few goodmen, rather than good looks and glamour… but 7200/7202 are probably not that far off.

Edited October 22, 2023 by adb968008

[wappinghigh]

^ 7202 both model and real are with the raised running plate over the cylinders 😀

Just looked at 7229 - I think you'll find that is with the squared footplate and straight running plate

Thanks 

Edited October 31, 2023 by wappinghigh

[The Stationmaster]

Don't forget there were very notocable differences between the original batches of 72XX further confused by later front end rebuilds of some engines.

 

Although the photos have gone this might be helpful -

 

 

[wappinghigh]

On 23/10/2023 at 21:37, The Stationmaster said:

Don't forget there were very notocable differences between the original batches of 72XX further confused by later front end rebuilds of some engines.

 

Although the photos have gone this might be helpful -

 

 

Wonderful thread - alas archived 

@The Stationmaster Now 10 years on.. 1/ How do you think this Horby model has played out.. ie fared? 2/ Do you think they will ever do a re-tool (that sorts out the obvious issues? thanks 

[DCB]

On 22/10/2023 at 11:06, wappinghigh said:

I want to model one of the preserved 72XX class. One with a raised (curved) footplate over larger cylinders.

Which basic Hornby "R" (or any other manufacturer) should I start with? Thanks 

The first 20 of the 72XX     7200 to 7219  were the final locomotives of the 42XX class altered before entering traffic to a 2-8-2T which had Raised foot plating,outside steam pipes, short thick motion bracket and pretty much stayed unaltered until withdrawal. The rest were a hotch potch of earlier locomotives and evolved towards the 7200 spec over time. Use a dated photo if modelling 7220 on as some received new front ends when they needed new cylinders.    Some 42XX and probably some of the 7220 on series had new later style cylinders but retained non raised foot plating having the running plate edge cut away to clear the more bulbous cylinders.    The 42XX at  "Steam" Swindon is one of those

Edited October 28, 2023 by DCB

[wappinghigh]

^ yep...Further research and after reading the  thread by StationM.. It appears there remain 3 of the 72XX class left "Preserved"

All seem to be (slowly) being restored 😀

All of these 3 "preserved" 7200 class originally came (were rebuilt) from 5205’s (these started out as 42XX) during 1930's ie pre war.

First two from a previous converted Curved baseplate (ie raised over the cylinders) 5205 and the last (7229) from a Straight plated (unraised) over the cylinders 5205

ie 

42XX>5205>5275 > 7200 finally converted in August 1934 Curved plate

42XX>5205>5277> 7202 converted in similar time Curved plate 

42XX>5205> 5264>7229 in 1936 Straight plate 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by wappinghigh

[wappinghigh]

So the Hornby models (2013 tooling) or thereabouts  have the basics of plate correct (in principle) 

The model of 7202 is raised

The model of 7229 is flat 

They botched the manufacturer of the model of 7202 thats all.. bending the plastic "to try make it fit" to "look raised". This can be corrected but involves pulling the model apart and shaving bits/cutting cyclinder steam pipes as in this thread : 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by wappinghigh

[wappinghigh]

34 minutes ago, DCB said:

The first 20 of the 72XX     7200 to 7219  were the final locomotives of the 42XX class altered before entering traffic to a 2-8-2T which had Raised foot plating,outside steam pipes, short thick motion bracket and pretty much stayed unaltered until withdrawal. The rest were a hotch potch of earlier locomotives and evolved towards the 7200 spec over time. Use a dated photo if modelling 7220 on.    Some 42XX and probably some of the 7220 on series had later cylinders but non raised foot plating having the running plate edge cut away to clear the more bulbous cylinders.    The 42XX at  "Steam" Swindon is one of those .

Sure.. Have I  been getting my "raised (curved) footplate" vs raised base plate confused?

I am referring to the part of the baseplate under the boiler directly above the cylinders.

 

7200 and 7202 are definitely "raised" in recent pictures of the locomotives

7229 is flat

According to wikipedia *all* these engines started out as 5205's, though they were originally all 42XX's

Though all this is a moot point as I'm just after a model that looks like the current 72XX locomotives now..

Cheers 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by wappinghigh

[wappinghigh]

Here is Jenny Kirk talking about the baseplate issues ..quality control seems it was way worse with the curved (raised) plate versions

 

[wappinghigh]

Re 72XX Any visual signs between the two batches?

Is there any way to tell the Batch one from revised Batch2 (with the bearings) other than taking it apart?

How then do I buy one of these on ebay?!  😀

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, wappinghigh said:

^ yep...Further research and after reading the  thread by StationM.. It appears there remain 3 of the 72XX class left "Preserved"

All seem to be (slowly) being restored 😀

All of these 3 "preserved" 7200 class originally came (were rebuilt) from 5205’s (these started out as 42XX) during 1930's ie pre war.

First two from a previous converted Curved baseplate (ie raised over the cylinders) 5205 and the last (7229) from a Straight plated (unraised) over the cylinders 5205

ie 

42XX>5205>5275 > 7200 finally converted in August 1934 Curved plate

42XX>5205>5277> 7202 converted in similar time Curved plate 

42XX>5205> 5264>7229 in 1936 Straight plate 

 

Then just to confuse things a bit some of the conversion from older engines later got renewed front ends - which I think I mentioned in my original post.  So the class went like this -

 

First batch converted fromstored late build 42XX.  7200 - 7219, curved drop end, raised running plate over the cylinders, Collett patter motion bracket.

Second batch. 7220 - 7239.  Converted from older 42XX but retaining square drop end, straight running plate over the cylinders, and Churchward motion brackett 

Third batch.  7240 on. Converted from early 42XX but with a new front end giving a curved drop end and raised running plate over the cylinders, but retaining the Churchward motion bracket.  Revised bunker to increase water capacity with a different rivet pattern

Renewed Second Batch, various engines, e.g. 7228, but but not all.  New front end with raised running plate over cylinders and curved drop end, original 72XX style bunker rivet pattern retained.

 

So eventually there were 4 distinctly different versions - Batch 1, Batch 2, Batch 2 renewed front end, and Batch 3.  In addition the height of the safety valve covered varied with some engines having a taller cover at various times.ales