West Highland Line train formations 1980's

[03060]

Hello everybody,

 

I posted a message earlier in young37215's WHL 4 thread regarding his source of information for making up his train formations to work his WHL Working Timetable, as suggested and so as not to detract from his thread I've started this seperate thread for people to report to. I'm afraid that my own ability to correctly identify particularly Mk.1 coaches in a photograph is not particularly good, hence the request but I will contribute where I am confident.

 

Any sources of information would be gratefully received but I'm really looking for info as displayed in the Rail Express Train Formations bookazine such as :-

 

Loco : 37424 BR L/L blue Vehicles : Mk.2f SO, Mk.1 TSO, BSO, TTA  Train: Fort William - Mallaig  07/87.

 

Loco : 37012 'Loch Rannoch' BR blue with white stripes  Vehicles : OCA x2, OBA, OCA, TTA x9, OBA, OCA, PAB x2. Train : FW - Mossend 07/83

 

 

Personally I'm interested in all timelines but will see what reaction comes back before starting other decade specific threads.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited March 14, 2020 by 03060
Title modified

[young37215]

Hi Ian

 

This is a good approach and one I hope others will add to. I have one suggestion which from experience I recommend you and anyone else creating WHL related threads adopt which is use 'West Highland Line' in your heading, not 'WHL' or similar abbreviation. The search engine on RMWeb can return strange data!

 

A couple of early 80's workings were

 

"West Highlands Tour" Sunday 23rd August 1981.

Loco 55021 in BR Blue "ARGYLL & SUTHERLAND HIGHLANDER"

1Z19 09:15 Edinburgh to Oban

1Z19 1500 Oban to Edinburgh

Vehicles Blue and grey MK3 SO's 12018+12007+12051+12015+MK1RMB?1857+SO12025+FO11008+DBSO 9703

 

The West Highland early 1980's coaching stock thread has more examples, typical of the era is

 

6/7/85 Loco 37 049 in BR Blue,

Vehicles all BR Blue and grey 35451 (BSK), 4915 (TSO), 18384 (SK), 9012 (BSOT), 18260 (SK)

 

 

Finally a resource that I find helpful is the Rolling Stock Observer. You have to work your way through to find WHL related trains but there a number of WHL services including coach numbers recorded in there.

 

http://www.britishrailways.net/rs/index.html

 

[03060]

Sorry for the lack of reports to this thread so far, from my perspective this is whilst I decide how best to record these train formations having looked through my rather large file of magazine articles and cut outs, I also have a rather large book collection to wade through.

 

So with a bit of thought I shall try and organise my reports to the thread on a line by line basis, trains by type of traffic and possibly split the decade into early-mid 80's and mid-late 80's. This, I hope, should make the info gathered easier to view and edit by somebody looking to recreate certain trains....including myself !

 

For my own benefit of trying to get to grips with better carriage identification I'll be starting with the hopefully easier to identify trains of the Mallaig line. Please don't hesitate to correct me as this will be bit of a learning curve and errors are bound to be made but easily corrected.

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

[03060]

Fort William to Mallaig Diesel Passenger inc Mixed (early-mid 80's)

 

20 191 (BR Blue),    Mk.1 (B/grey) TSO, BFK, TSO            FW-Mg    22/06/82

20 148 (BR Blue),   Mk.1 (B/grey) BSK, TSO, SK, TTA x2   FW-Mg   03/6/83

 

27 041 (BR Blue),   Mk.1 (B/grey)  BSK, SK, Buffet     Mg-FW   23/4/80

 

37 051 (BR Blue),  (B/grey)  Mk.1 SK, (B/grey ICb) Mk.2 BFK   FW-Mg  3/6/81

37 022 (BR Blue),   Mk.1 (B/grey)  TSO (?), BCK, SK (?) x2     FW-Mg   8/83

37 026 'Loch Awe' (BR Blue), Mk.1 (B/grey) BCK, TSO, SK   FW-Mg   8/8/83

37 043 'Loch Lomond' (BR Blue),  Mk.1 (B/grey) BFK, SK    FW-Mg (u/n)

37 191 'IYY 1985' (L/L),   Mk.1 (B/grey SRb)  SK x2, BSO (?)   Mg-FW   27/5/85

37 112 (BR Blue),   (B/grey) Mk.2 BSO, (B/grey SRb) Mk.1 TSO x2   Mg-FW   4/7/85

37 xxx (BR Blue (Y sb hc)),  (B/grey)  Mk.1 TSO, SK, RMB, SK, BSK   Mg-FW  u/n pre'85

37 027 'Loch Eil' (L/L),  (B/grey SRb)  Mk.1 TSO, SK x2, BSO     Mg-FW    21/5/85

37 xxx 'u/n' (BR Blue),  (B/grey)  Mk.1 BSK, SK, TSO, Obs Sal TODM999501 FW-Mg 28/5/84

37 012 'Loch Rannoch' (BR Blue),  Mk.1 (B/grey SRb+dog ?) BSOT, (B/grey SRb) SK, Mk.2 (B/grey) BSK, 4 whl bolster, BDA x2 (one with steel plate load) FW-Mg  31/5/85

 

37 190 (BR Blue),  Obs Sal 1998 'Loch Eil', Mk.1 (B/grey) TSO, RMB, SK, BSK, Obs Sal Sc1999 'Lochaber'     Mg-FW   9/8/83

37 033 (BR Blue),  Mk.1 (G/cream WH/dog/SRb) TSO x2, BSO, TSO x3   FW-Mg-FW 28/5/85

37 011 (L/L) + 37 027 'Loch Eil' (L/L),     Royal Train    FW-Mallaig-FW (ecs)  6/85

37 111 'LEOB' (L/L) + 37081 'Loch Long' (L/L), Mk.1 (IC) FO, FO IC3132, Buffet IC1667, FO, FO IC3134, (B/grey) RMB, (Pullman) Mk.1 Pullman 1st (?), FK , BFK (Car No.355 ?)  SLOA  'The West Highlander'  1/6/85

37 085 (BR Blue),  Mk.2 (S/Rail) DBSO, Mk.1 ? (B/grey) x1, (S/Rail) x3 or 4 ?   Charter 2/6/85

 

Other locos of note:

20 049 (27/7/84), 20 097 (26/4/84), 20 117 (7/1/82- Mallaig to Glasgow throughout....brrr !)

25 006 (25/6/80), 25 044 (u/n),

26 029 (11/1/82)

 

37 014 (21/5/85), 37 175 (29/6/84), 37 039 (28/5/85), 37 114 + Ins Sal DE 902260 (3/6/81), 37 178 (14/7/85), 37 184 (30/6/84), 37 037 (28/5/85), 37 088 (1/6/85)

 

37 005 (12/8/82), 37 110 (9/2/84), 37 102 (4/85), 37 149  (15/11/82 + 14/8/82), 37 151 (16/7/81 + 11/8/84), 37 179 (2/8/83), 37 296 (23/2/85)

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by 03060
Extra info added or corrected.

[DCB]

Before my time, didn't get to Scotland until 1987, by which time it was 37/4s.  By 1990 it was class 156s and just the sleeper loco hauled.  Thank the lord I missed the ETHEL era.

I remember that Green/ Cream set on the steam train from Ft Wm to Mallaig or "Mallig"  as it seems to get pronounced.  There were Green Cream MK1s on Ft Wm to Mallaig and Green Cream named Mk2s on the Inverness to Kyle line often with a Green/ Cream ex DMU trailer as Observation Car! 

[young37215]

There are a variety of ways you could segment the WHL in the 1980's. Personally I think you should keep it simple and divide the decade in 2, the steam heat era (sempahores, BR blue with occassional Eastfield variants, Mk1's and predominantly, but not exclusively air braked freight) and the ETH era (RETB signalling, large logo and sectorised locos, MK1's, 2's and 3's with air braked freight). I am of course ignoring the post January 1989 sprinterisation!  

 

It is not a perfect split and one or two overlaps arise however you segment but it is how I think of the period.

 

[03060]

Thanks Rob, with the first detailed post I've sort of taken it up to the introduction of the 37/4's era in 1985, although as you say there is a bit of an overlap. That particular post will get larger but it took me long enough just to work through those as I was reading old magazine articles and trying to pick out the subject matter, I'm currently working my way through Tom Noble's book. I will try not to overload each subject, maybe call it a day when I have approx. 10 representative service trains and some specials or so .....that should be enough for most modellers .....surely ??

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

PS - Have just found my Coaching Stock Recognition (Colin J. Marsden 1983) book in the loft so hopefully I should now get things right ....maybe !

Edited March 16, 2020 by 03060

[03060]

There were 2 Green and Cream Mk.1 sets used on the Mallaig Extension, one from 1985 and another from 1987 (again there was an overlap) there were differences in the type and painting / branding of these which are discussed in another thread on here. Tom Noble's book details these also.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited March 16, 2020 by 03060

[John M Upton]

Prior to the green set, there was possibly for one season only a number of Mk1's that received a Scottie Dog on the centre passenger door in blue/grey livery in the same position as the green/cream ones carried it.

 

As of yet other than a couple of pictures where one of these b/g with dog Mk1's appears in the background, I have not been able to identify any numbers that carried this variant.

[03060]

Hello John, I'll keep an eye out for these whilst I'm studying photos, you never know.

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

(Tom Noble - The WH Mallaig Ext, p.54 ....Mk.1 BSOT ... dog after ScotRail brand (not on door) ...number u/n I'm afraid   31/5/85.)

(Tom Noble - p.73 colour photo behind 44767 'George Stephenson' ...SK ? ....25/7/84 ... also p.88/89/91 behind 5407 July and Aug '84 at least 5 coaches + loco with Terriers .... but still no numbers ! ....sorry.)

Edited March 17, 2020 by 03060
Extra info added.

[young37215]

Details of the 2 green and cream rakes are contained in the West Highland Coaching Stock early 1980's thread on page 2. Both rakes have been produced by Bachmann as limited editions and crop up as second hand regularly on Ebay albeit usually with silly asking prices. Harburn Hobbies have also produced various Bachmann and Lima green and cream limied edition packs.

 

The special I want to re-create is the Royal Scotsman in its first iteration from 1985. There are some great pictures of this kicking around but very little by way of proprietary rolling stock. There is a thread for this as well, it makes interesting reading. Nick Meskell's volumes 2 and 3 of Scottish Class 37's contain a number of pictures of this train.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by young37215

[03060]

Hello Rob,

 

I know that I photographed these trains in detail back in the 80's, possibly on prints but most likely on slides, whilst I bought a slide scanner, as with so many other things, I've never got around to doing any (not fond of computers I'm afraid.)

 

I also would love a model of the  original Royal Scotsman. Grafar are doing 2 of the Green/Cream coaches this year in N gauge but don't know if they will produce others to make up a 6 coach rake ?

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited March 17, 2020 by 03060

[John M Upton]

3 hours ago, young37215 said:

Nick Meskell's volumes 2 and 3 of Scottish Class 37's contain a number of pictures of this train.

 

 

I have been trying to locate a copy of Volume 2 for a couple of years but unlike Volume 3 it seems to be rarer than rocking horse droppings!

[young37215]

1 hour ago, 03060 said:

I know that I photographed these trains in detail back in the 80's, possibly on prints but most likely on slides, whilst I bought a slide scanner, as with so many other things, I've never got around to doing any (not fond of computers I'm afraid.)

 

There is also video around showing the Royal Scotsman. For example Class 37 Hauled Volume 10 at 17 minutes 30 has a 30 second clip of 37033 hauling the original rake through the County March. 

[03060]

Fort William - Mallaig Diesel Passenger inc Mixed (Mid-Late 1980's)

 

37 409 (L/L), +6 (B/grey) Mk.2 BFK, Mk.1 SO x2, CK, BSK, SK     FW-Mg    21/6/86

37 412 (L/L), +6 (B/grey SRb) Mk.2 BFK, Mk.1 SK x2, (B/grey) SK, (B/grey SRb) BFK, SK   FW-Mg  1/8/86

37 402 'Oor Wullie' (L/L), +6 (B/grey) Mk.2 (SRb) BFK, Mk.1 SO, (SRb) SK, BSO, (Teak) GN  807 (?), CR 'Ryl Scot' Saloon (?)       FW-Mg      22/5/86

37 412 (L/L) +3 (B/grey) Mk.1 (SRb) TSO, BSOT, Mk.2 (ICSRb) TSO     FW-Mg   5/86

37 408 (L/L), +4+3 (B/grey) Mk.2 (ICb) BSK,  Mk.1 (SRb) SK, SK, (SRb) SK, (Black) TTA x3  FW-Mg     23/6/86

37 407 'Loch Long' (L/L), +2+2 (B/grey)  Mk.1 TSO, BSO, IIB x2 (fish vans)  FW-Mg   4/87

37 424 (L/L), +2+1 (B/grey)  Mk.2f  (ICb) SO, Mk.1 (SRb) TSO, BSO, (Blk) TTA   FW-Mg  7/87

37 425 'SRMcA/Concrete Bob' (L/L) +6 (B/grey Mk.2 (SRb) BFK, Mk.1 (SRb) SK, (exFO) SO, SO x3      FW-Mg-FW     14/10/86

37 425 'SRMcA/Concrete Bob' (L/L) +3 (B/grey)  Mk.2f (ICb) SO, Mk.1 (SRb) BSK, SK   FW-Mg-FW    14/10/86

Edited March 20, 2020 by 03060
Extra info added.

[03060]

In the early to mid 80's post earlier I have included a Charter train hauled  by 37 085  complete with ScotRail liveried DBSO at Arisaig on 2/6/85 which I found in both of the 2 Flikr folders shown here (not sure if I can post a picture of the train or not ?).....does anybody have any more details of this train, please, as I'm slightly intrigued by it. I have a vague recollection of something being mentioned in an old Rail Enthusiast mag of the time but can't find it in my collection of articles.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[03060]

Fort William - Mallaig Diesel Freight inc Engineers  (1980's)

 

27 111 (BR Blue),   UUV x15, CAO     C/larich L - Cph    06/80

37 112 (BR Blue + Y ends)   VBA, VDA x3, OAA, VDA, OAA x2, VDA, OBA x3 (all Brown)    Cph - Cadder Yd    06/81

37 021 (BR Blue)    OWV x18      Cadder Yd - Cph     06/81

20 114 (BR Blue),   PRA x3 (1 sheeted), OBA (Brown), OCA (Red), OBA (Brown)  (all sheeted)                          Mg Jnc - WT Corpach  8/83

37 188 'Jimmy Shand' (L/L)    CCT (Blue, DB 977222), TTV x3 (Grey, pos 56960/1/2), FA99905 exLMS Bke Tourist (diag.2161/lot1506), FA99906 exGWR Bke (ex diag.K44/PP026A), 99903 exLMS TO (lot.1401 diag.PP023A) (all Red/cream)  - Fisons W/K train*    FW - Mg - FW   31/5/85

37 409 (L/L) + 20 213 (BR Blue),    VGA, VBA      Mg Jnc - WT Cph   14/7/86

20 048 (BR Blue)   VDA (R/g), VDA x2 (Bn), VDA (R/g), VGA x2 (R/s), VDA (R/g), VGA x4 (R/s), VDA (R/g)          WT Cph - Mg Jnc (M/end)     4/8/86

37 402 'Oor Wullie' (L/L)   FW Bogie Tool Van (Yellow)    TNaF - WT Cph    20/5/87

37 425 'SRMcA / C Bob' (L/L)    IIB (I/F Fish) x7     Mg - Mg Jnc     23/5/87

37 407 'Loch Long' (L/L)   Seacow x2 (Green), Bogie flat (?) (Carrying x2 m/c's)    Mg - Mg Jnc  1/7/87

37 401 'MQofS' (IC)    (B/grey SRb)  BSO x2, TSO     FW - Mg - FW    6/9/88

 

WT Cph Shunter exBR 08 077 (Blue)    5/3/85

 

(*Fisons Weedkilling Train extra info added after consulting Paul Bartlett's excellent website.)

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by 03060
Extra info added.

[w124bob]

17 hours ago, 03060 said:

Fort William - Mallaig Diesel Freight inc Engineers  (1980's)

 

27 111 (BR Blue),   UUV x15, CAO     C/larich L - Cph    06/80

37 112 (BR Blue + Y ends)   VBA, VDA x3, OAA, VDA, OAA x2, VDA, OBA x3 (all Brown)    Cph - Cadder Yd    06/81

37 021 (BR Blue)    OWV x18      Cadder Yd - Cph     06/81

20 114 (BR Blue),   PRA x3 (1 sheeted), OBA (Brown), OCA (Red), OBA (Brown)  (all sheeted)                          Mg Jnc - WT Corpach  8/83

37 188 'Jimmy Shand' (L/L)    CCT (Blue), TTA x3 (Grey (water ?)), x3 u/k coaches (R/cream)  - Fisons W/K train    FW - Mg - FW   31/5/85

37 409 (L/L) + 20 213 (BR Blue),    VGA, VBA      Mg Jnc - WT Cph   14/7/86

20 048 (BR Blue)   VDA (R/g), VDA x2 (Bn), VDA (R/g), VGA x2 (R/s), VDA (R/g), VGA x4 (R/s), VDA (R/g)          WT Cph - Mg Jnc (M/end)     4/8/86

37 402 'Oor Wullie' (L/L)   FW Bogie Tool Van (Yellow)    TNaF - WT Cph    20/5/87

37 425 'SRMcA / C Bob' (L/L)    IIB (I/F Fish) x7     Mg - Mg Jnc     23/5/87

47 407 'Loch Long' (L/L)   Seacow x2 (Green), Bogie flat (?) (Carrying x2 m/c's)    Mg - Mg Jnc  1/7/87

 

WT Cph Shunter exBR 08 077 (Blue)    5/3/85

 

For those less familiar with the above TOPS abreviations, particularly the first and third trains on that useful list,

UUV are vac brake timber wagons rebuilt from plate wagons, a kit is available from Cambrian. CAO is a brake .

OWV are china clay five planks, my understanding is that these would be 10ft wheelbase of various diagrammes, rather than the 9ft Ratio/Bachmann type .

 

 

[Rivercider]

 

 

1 hour ago, w124bob said:

For those less familiar with the above TOPS abreviations, particularly the first and third trains on that useful list,

UUV are vac brake timber wagons rebuilt from plate wagons, a kit is available from Cambrian. CAO is a brake .

OWV are china clay five planks, my understanding is that these would be 10ft wheelbase of various diagrammes, rather than the 9ft Ratio/Bachmann type .

 

 

In addition to the various OWV wooden bodied clayfits that worked to locations across BR some of the clay wagons originally built for export clay via Fowey (TOPS code UCV) also found themselves working to Corpach. The UCVs that worked to the Potteries and elsewhere did not receive the distinctive 'hoods'.

 

cheers

Edited March 31, 2020 by Rivercider
remove duplicate quote

[03060]

Thanks w124bob, I did wonder about whether people would recognise these as I wrote them last night (the first 3 are copied straight from the Rail Express 'Train Formations Handbook') and had to look up to see exactly what type of wagons came under OWV, as you say they were 10' 5 plank opens from the big 4 companies plus some BR versions, mostly fitted with roller bearings and BR W irons.

 

I did add 'fish' descriptions after IIB vans as whilst I knew the vans in question I didn't know the Tops Code.

Most of the others I worked out from photos in Tom Noble's West Highland Mallaig Extension book ....I may not be wholly correct with some of the OBA, OAA, VBA, and VDA identifications due to the distance or angles of the photos but they can be easily edited if I've got them wrong.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited March 31, 2020 by 03060
Correction.

[slow8dirty]

Are the IIB 'fish' the interfrigo vans that were trialled?  Very useful topic by the way. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by slow8dirty
I can't spell VAN

[phil_sutters]

I don't know whether they contain any useful information for you, but Dad's photos and log-book entries  from a trip in 1985 are at 

 

[03060]

Thanks for posting this Phil, it gives a great snapshot of some of the workings on the WHL over a period of several days and how some locos appear and reappear across them.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[03060]

Fort William - Mallaig Steam Trains

 

5407 (LMS Black 5)  (B/grey SRb)  Mk.1 TSO x3, BSO, TSO x2   SLOA 'West Highlander'   FW - Mg - FW  27/5/84

673 'Maude'  (NB Black)    (B/grey) Mk.1 FO x3, (Pullman) BSO       FW - Arisaig - FW      28/5/84

673 'Maude' (NB Black) + 44767 'GS'    (B/grey) Mk.1   BSO x2, TSO x3   SLOA 'Glenfinnan Flyer'  FW -Mg -FW 1/9/84

 

....to be continued !

 

[keefer]

4 hours ago, 03060 said:

Thanks for posting this Phil, it gives a great snapshot of some of the workings on the WHL over a period of several days and how some locos appear and reappear across them.

 

Regards,

Ian.

I take it certain locos would be assigned to the line, then just work there and thereabouts until they needed to go for servicing?