Schooner's (Mostly Maritime) Musings

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Going back to what I said before about Churchward, the technological advances in locomotives in the Edwardian period informed steam loco design in this country until the end. 

 

Exactly. One of the signifiers of the Golden Age is "pre-Churchward"!

 

And yes, I take your point about the Golden Age being less than golden for railway employees, though I forget when the 10-hour day and 8-hour day came in. 

[MikeOxon]

8 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I take your point about the Golden Age being less than golden for railway employees,

We have to place railway employment conditions within the context of their time.

[drduncan]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Suggest: "names, only one of which will come back to worry us".

😡

 

You are just jealous!

D

[Northroader]

I thought brother Schooners thread was the most appropriate place to shove this link, which covers a lot of nautical goings on in bygone days:

 

https://abdn.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/collectionDiscovery?vid=44ABE_INST:44ABE_VU1&collectionId=81151714200005941

[Schooner]

Ooh, yes please! Thank you Mr @Northroader, Sir!

 

Spent a little bit of my eve having another look at the Barbados Railway and still finding it appealing. Bought a book (the only one I could find on the sunject).

 

 

 

Also, to my own slight surprise, bought a house. A downstairs room c.16'x11' has got hobby den/railway room written all over it... :)

Edited January 28 by Schooner

[magmouse]

17 minutes ago, Schooner said:

A downstairs room c.16'x11' has got hobby den/railway room written all over it...

 

Yay!

[MrWolf]

56 minutes ago, magmouse said:

 

Yay!

 

Yee Haa even.

[Fishplate]

9 hours ago, Schooner said:

Also, to my own slight surprise, bought a house. A downstairs room c.16'x11' has got hobby den/railway room written all over it... :)

 

Sounds great. When do you move ?

 

9 hours ago, Schooner said:

Spent a little bit of my eve having another look at the Barbados Railway and still finding it appealing. Bought a book (the only one I could find on the sunject).

 

Looks like an interesting book. Just looking at the table: Is there a typo on the Daily Outward timetable, or is there something else operational happening ? The time from Bridgetown to Rouen takes 2 hours 13 mins for 2.5 miles and the overall journey is over 4hrs. The other Outward tables show 12 minutes for the same 2.5 miles. 

 

The Inward Daily shows 23 minutes between those stations, with the other two at 12 minutes.

[Nick C]

10 hours ago, Schooner said:

Also, to my own slight surprise, bought a house. A downstairs room c.16'x11' has got hobby den/railway room written all over it... :)

Congratulations!

 

1 hour ago, Fishplate said:

Looks like an interesting book. Just looking at the table: Is there a typo on the Daily Outward timetable, or is there something else operational happening ? The time from Bridgetown to Rouen takes 2 hours 13 mins for 2.5 miles and the overall journey is over 4hrs. The other Outward tables show 12 minutes for the same 2.5 miles. 

 

The Inward Daily shows 23 minutes between those stations, with the other two at 12 minutes.

Also, it says that day returns are available on Sundays and Wednesdays - but there don't appear to be any Sunday trains! I suspect it should say Saturday instead...

[Northroader]

Bought a house, he says. Just like that, simples. ?????

[ChrisN]

Well done!  16 x 11 is not a bad size room for a railway room as long as it does not get filled up with clutter.

[MrWolf]

18 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Bought a house, he says. Just like that, simples. ?????

 

I like the casual statement, someone, somewhere has to get lucky with it, just by the odds, like they were buying a fourth hand Cortina.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

Bought a house, he says. Just like that, simples. ?????

Buying a house is actually quite simple, - it's all the horror, madness and blood sweat and tears that comes along with it that's the challenging part.

[Fishplate]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

Buying a house is actually quite simple, - it's all the horror, madness and blood sweat and tears that comes along with it that's the challenging part.

 

Other than shunting a few wagons, that is why I haven't run a train on my entire layout since August 2020. . . .😔

[MrWolf]

4 hours ago, Fishplate said:

 

Other than shunting a few wagons, that is why I haven't run a train on my entire layout since August 2020. . . .😔

 

The last house I bought was empty, no chain for me or the seller, but it still took over six months to get the keys.

[Schooner]

Cheers all, and yes, it's been surreally simple. Handy, as it was only brought to market the day before I flew out to work, and so I've been conducting the entire process through the phone...lol.

 

And I think I've worked out how to fit Barbados in the back room!

 

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

Cheers all, and yes, it's been surreally simple. Handy, as it was only brought to market the day before I flew out to work, and so I've been conducting the entire process through the phone...lol.

 

And I think I've worked out how to fit Barbados in the back room!

 

 

Barbados in the Back Room

 

I will be very disappointed if that is not the layout topic title in due course!

[Northroader]

I would be looking at fitting the back room in Barbados.

[Schooner]

Not sure my Mandarin is good enough

[Schooner]

On 29/01/2024 at 09:12, Fishplate said:

Just looking at the table: Is there a typo on the Daily Outward timetable, or is there something else operational happening ?

 

In short, I don't know but a typo wouldn't surprise me. I've seen another TT, I'll compare and see if they're the same or not.

 

It could be operational also: with a 23ish miles of running line but with only 3ish miles of siding, I'm assuming much of the line's sugar working will have taken place with the train stopped on the running line at its convenience. Fiji should give a handy touchstone for this method and traffic.

 

I also have yet to find any useful evidence of loco or C&W facilities. I assume these were at Bridgetown, between the goods shed and the river, but supposition only. They must've been reasonably substantial though.

 

There is also the perpetual caveat that most detailed information is post-1920 and focuses on the line's final failure, whereas I'm most interested in the 'as built' pre-1890 state of affairs.

 

On 29/01/2024 at 10:16, Nick C said:

Also, it says that day returns are available on Sundays and Wednesdays - but there don't appear to be any Sunday trains! I suspect it should say Saturday instead...

I suspect you're right!

 

Lots of the detailed written info is directly contradicted by the few available photographs, the most tantalising imagery is unsupported by primary sources, plenty seems, at first glance, to be unrecorded. Bliss :)

 

Edited February 6 by Schooner
Pic

[Nick C]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

Lots of the detailed written info is directly contradicted by the few available photographs, the most tantalising imagery is unsupported by primary sources, plenty seems, at first glance, to be unrecorded. Bliss :)

If no-one recorded it, no-one can prove you wrong...

[MrWolf]

eBay's curious logic brought this up as a "similar item" during a search for prewar BSA motorcycle parts, I thought you might know something about it? 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384935764493?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=OGCxat2VTz-&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=3qkTzGg7QRS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

 

[Schooner]

Interesting...in short, no idea!

A quick cod-translation from generic Scandi suggests something like Lively, (ah, there we go - Google says 'Eager' for Danish, 'Lively' for Norwegian) so not unreasonable for a vessel name. The shape of the hull is Northern European (Dutch-ish), the rig pre-c.1800, but hard to tell much. The sail plan shown suggests manoevering in harbour, or managing a bit of a blow...but might not be meant to mean anything much, and I think the main topgallant sail is meant to be shown set and full but has broken off.

 

Don't recall having seen anything quite like it. Might been made for cabin decoration, likewise for a ship-owner's office, or even housename perhaps?

 

 

[Deeps]

On 28/01/2024 at 22:50, Schooner said:

 

Quite by chance I took a similar shot, from almost the same position, in December 2022, when I had the obvious misfortune to spend Xmas on the Island.

 

I also have a book on the Barbados Railway, by Jim Horsford. Whenever I visit the island (sorry to rub it in) I take the book with me with the intention of exploring more remnants of the system. Unfortunately, excessive consumption of rum punch means that I rarely have the opportunity.

[Schooner]

On 15/02/2024 at 16:55, Deeps said:

I also have a book on the Barbados Railway, by Jim Horsford

The book, IIUC. Otherwise worst luck all round, apalling situation...!

 

From which tome, some useful nuggets.

 

Locos (3'6" gauge)

• Black Hawthorn 575 0-4-0T St. Michael. Year? Later BR No.5
• Avonside 1286 and 1287 2-4-0 (4 wheel tenders) of 1881/2. BR No.1 St. John and No.2 St. Joseph
• Vulcan 951/1882 and 952/1882 2-6-2T. 18'8" wheelbase, 27 tons 6cwt. BR No.3 St. George and No.4 Christchurch.
• Bagnall 1308, November 1890, and 1310, April 1891, 0-6-0T. 9' wheelbase. BR No.6 St. Philip and No.7 St. Andrew

There are several photos of the Black Hawthorn during construction of the line, and several more of the Avonsides working it, but 'only' works photos of one Vulcan and one of the later Bagnalls.

 

The pics are handy, but hopefully the works numbers will help track down useful drawings in time.

 

Rolling Stock (3'6" gauge)

 

Passenger coaches are not recorded at build but can be seen to be 4W, with clerestories, verandah ends and matchboard sides. 16 windows a side, in pairs with drop down shutters, and a rather sharp two-tone livery at build. Only four are ever seen in photos, which are

• 1 x First, 8 tons, seating 16 (saloon-style?)
• 2 x First/Second composites, 10 tons, seating 16/24 respectively
• 1 x Third, 8 tons, seating 48 on longitudinal wooden benches on either side.
• 1 x guards van, 4W, non-clerestory, lookout duckets at one end only.

One report suggests this increased over time to 4 x First/Second comps and 5 x Thirds...but this is unsubstantiated. 

 

There was also a double-decked special, built for the Merrivale family*, as remembered by the daughter: "It had three compartments downstairs and an upstairs like an old-fashioned bus". This car was later used for a local service around Bridgetown, hauled by the 0-4-0T St Michael.

 

*Walter Merrivale being Attorney and MD of the original Barbados Railway Comoany.

 

Initial passenger services seem to have been two (then three) out-and-back trips from Bridgetown daily. These took 40 mins, setting off at 08.00 and 16.00, the returns leaving at 09.00 and 17.00. Simples!

 

There never being a record book of rolling stock, goods wagons are even harder to ascertain, but the Wiki seems consistent with early pics - up to 10 covered and 20 open (flat) wagons* plus a 4W break van or two.

 

*I think used for transporting cane to the factories in the 6-month-or-so harvesting season, and then fitted with chocks to take 6 barrels per wagon of molasses or sugar to the harbour for export.

 

Stuff

I can take a decent stab at the layout, architecture and general facilities of some of the principal stations. St Andrews (Belleplaine) remains 90% mystery, however.

 

These include raised water tanks 17'6" x 17'6" x 4'6" deep at Bridgetown and Carrington; 9'0" x 1'11" x 2'14" deep (?!) at most other stations.

 

These stations also had Ransomes & Napier goods cranes, and the same also provided the 27'8" turntables at each end of the line. At Bridgetown this fed the roundhouse - 6 stall? At St Andrews it might have fed the single-occupancy loco shed...but who knows!

 

Sorry for lack of pics, on phone still and it's hard to manage. Very first stab at a plan below, though: