East Barnet Joint Stock - a workbench

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Chas, was it you asking me about GN wagon lettering?   I had forgotten at the time but Old Time Workshop do a sheet.  i found one on H & A Models' stand on the Sunday.

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Yes, both pre-1898:

 

 

and post-1898:

 

 

styles!

 

Thanks gents: no, Jonathan, it wasn't me asking about GN lettering (at least, not on this occasion!). I do know the Old Time Workshop sheets well though, as I have several of each in the transfers drawer.

Nice wagons, Stephen!

I thought OTW's post-'98 large 'GN' letters were a little smaller than the 4 and 6 plank lettering in some prototype photos, so when I built a GNR 6 plank recently, I got some larger 'GN' letters done by John Peck of Precision Decals; the pre-'98 ones are invaluable however, as I don't know anyone else doing that early style.

[Compound2632]

Just now, Chas Levin said:

Nice wagons, Stephen!

 

Wagon...

[Chas Levin]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

Wagon...

Ahh - is this one you re-lettered? I'm sure I remember this from your D299 thread but I took the two photos above to be separates... What was the story behind this again?

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Ahh - is this one you re-lettered? I'm sure I remember this from your D299 thread but I took the two photos above to be separates... What was the story behind this again?

 

Different lettering on each side of the one wagon!

[Chas Levin]

13 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Different lettering on each side of the one wagon!

I remember that now... but I still don't remember why you did that: was it just a lettering test?

Edited November 28, 2023 by Chas Levin

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

I remember that now... but I still don't remember why you did that: was it just a lettering test?

 

I only had the one GN wagon but bought both sets of transfers as I didn't know which style I preferred. Fortunately, the GN didn't put the number on the end of the wagon. 

[Chas Levin]

19 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I only had the one GN wagon but bought both sets of transfers as I didn't know which style I preferred. Fortunately, the GN didn't put the number on the end of the wagon. 

 

Excellent solution! Your wagon self-identifies as neither pre-, nor post-1898. It is era-fluid, using the wagon pronoun 'they'.

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Excellent solution! Your wagon self-identifies as neither pre-, nor post-1898. It is era-fluid, using the wagon pronoun 'they'.

 

Ah, no. It has the identities that I in my patriarchal way have imposed upon it. Where my wagons exercise their freedom of self-expression is in their running qualities, rather than their liveries.

[Chas Levin]

38 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ah, no. It has the identities that I in my patriarchal way have imposed upon it. Where my wagons exercise their freedom of self-expression is in their running qualities, rather than their liveries.

 

Truly, you are an enlightened - model, even - despot, Stephen. Wagon modelling with a human face, as Dubček so nearly said.

 

Unlike this, which is of course locomotion with a human face:

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Chas Levin

[jwealleans]

I have a small number of schizophrenic wagons, which can thereby run on both pre- and post war layouts.    There aren't many where viewers can see both sides.

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

I have a small number of schizophrenic wagons, which can thereby run on both pre- and post war layouts.    There aren't many where viewers can see both sides.

 

The closest I've come to that is tension-lock coupling changers - Hornby or Fleischmann one end, Tri-ang or Roco, the other.

 

Do you do that to try to keep wagon numbers down, Jonathan - to avoid having to have pairs of too many similar ones?

Edited November 28, 2023 by Chas Levin

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Truly, you are an enlightened - model, even - despot, Stephen. Wagon modelling with a human face, as Dubček so nearly said.

 

Yes, well, we know that wagons with a human face are nothing but troublesome trucks.

[jwealleans]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

... to try to keep wagon numbers down ...

 

Hell, no.  You can never have too many.   To paraphrase, there are never too many wagons, just fiddle yards which are too small.

 

It means I can use favourite items of stock on multiple layouts and furnish more than one train with the same wagons.   These LMS horseboxes (Hornby, when Hattons were clearing shelves):

 

 

... can also run in the 1950s Hunt Special on Wickham Market.

 

 

Having the black ends is an essential part of the subterfuge here, much like Stephen's GN wagon having no end number.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by jwealleans

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Hell, no.  You can never have too many.   To paraphrase, there are never too many wagons, just fiddle yards which are too small.

 

It means I can use favourite items of stock on multiple layouts and furnish more than one train with the same wagons.   These LMS horseboxes (Hornby, when Hattons were clearing shelves):

 

 

... can also run in the 1950s Hunt Special on Wickham Market.

 

 

Having the black ends is an essential part of the subterfuge here, much like Stephen's GN wagon having no end number.

 

Oh wow, that really is quite a transformation, isn't it? I hadn't imagined different colour as well (I'm assuming they are differently coloured on each side and it isn't just a lighting or camera effect?). Brilliant - and it made me think of those black & white costumes:

Edited November 28, 2023 by Chas Levin

[Adam88]

Just to remind everyone, let me quote:

 

An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician are on a train Sentinel railcar in Scotland.  The astronomer looks out of the window, sees a black sheep standing in a field, and remarks, "The sheep in Scotland are black!" "No, no, no!" says the physicist. "At least one sheep in Scotland is black!"  The mathematician rolls his eyes at his companions' muddled thinking and says, "In Scotland, there is at least one sheep, at least one side of which appears to be black from here some of the time."

Edited November 29, 2023 by Adam88

[Chas Levin]

8 minutes ago, Adam88 said:

Just to remind everyone, let me quote:

 

An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician are on a train Sentinel railcar in Scotland.  The astronomer looks out of the window, sees a black sheep standing in a field, and remarks, "The sheep in Scotland are black!" "No, no, no!" says the physicist. "At least one sheep in Scotland is black!"  The mathematician rolls his eyes at his companions' muddled thinking and says, "In Scotland, there is at least one sheep, at least one side of which appears to be black from here some of the time."

 

Excellent!! I wish you could use two different types of the 'like' symbols on here as I'd have marked that as 'Funny' as well as 'Round of Applause'!

[WFPettigrew]

47 minutes ago, Adam88 said:

"No, no, no!" says the physicist. "At least one sheep in Scotland is black!" 

 

Not how I was taught physics tbh... Schrödinger, etc. has a lot to answer for! 

 

 

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Adam88 said:

Just to remind everyone, let me quote:

 

An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician are on a train Sentinel railcar in Scotland.  The astronomer looks out of the window, sees a black sheep standing in a field, and remarks, "The sheep in Scotland are black!" "No, no, no!" says the physicist. "At least one sheep in Scotland is black!"  The mathematician rolls his eyes at his companions' muddled thinking and says, "In Scotland, there is at least one sheep, at least one side of which appears to be black from here some of the time."

 

And the biologist points out it's actually a goat?

[Chas Levin]

Back to the bogies - while I await the GW rollers - and the unpowered one first. I'd only taken it to a basic four-piece stage to allow for test running, so the next thing is to add the ends, which would have been simple right-angles if this bogie were being built as per the Judith Edge instructions for use on their ES1 kit, but in this case, having re-profiled the side ends to resemble those of the Sentinel's carrying bogie, the end pieces must be bent to the corresponding angle to sit on the bogie ends:

 

 

Holding the inner bogie and those end pieces in alignment to solder them was more fiddly that expected and provided another occasion to employ one of the most useful everyday household objects for modelling, half a clothes peg:

 

 

 

The wheels run perfectly freely, but the flanges are extremely close to the upper inside edges of the end pieces, so some filing will be done:

 

 

The next stage is the cosmetic outer flat brass sides (onto which the equally cosmetic Nu-Cast white-metal sides will be put). I don't like soldering near wheels, steel axles and so forth, so I spent some time trying to work out if I could solder those outer sides in place but insert the axles and wheels afterwards! I think it would probably be possible, but exerting sufficient force, through the outer and inner holes, to push the axles through both wheels, without skewing the axles off the straight and without accidentally damaging or distorting the bogie frame, seems too risky, so I decided instead to go with the more usual way of putting the axles and wheels in next and soldering te outer sides with them in place.

 

Fear of splashing the wheelsets with flux motivated me to try this bottle of Microscale Micro Mask that I've had for absolutely ages:

 

 

I'd tried another brand of bottled masking before and found it very difficult to remove because it kept breaking up into little pieces, but this stuff does what it says on the bottle, drying into a flexible coating that can be cut and peeled away:

 

 

 

Actually, in reading back what I'd typed above, it's just occurred to me that while this stuff will be very useful when it comes to painting the bogie, I need to test it to see whether it also resists phosphoic acid flux before doing the soldering!

[Chas Levin]

I've also been looking at what other detailing I can add to the bogies prior to putting the wheelsets in place and from prototype photos, the powered bogie (the one under the boiler end) has what I take to be guard irons - can anyone please confirm that's what they are, shown here circled in red:

 

 

 

They appear to be another example of angle iron, used a lot on these vehicles. Here's a very informative photo of one of the CLC Sentinels under repair at Gorton works in 1934, with one of the bogie corners very much in the foreground and giving plenty of detail for modelling purposes.

 

 

Lastly, here's a photo showing that whatever they were, they were used on both bogies - this shows the carrying bogie end:

 

[Bucoops]

Looks to be guard irons?

 

Interesting about the masking fluid - I have the purple one and it's useless.

[Chas Levin]

Thanks Rich: I'm 90% certain they're guard irons too.

 

Which one's the purple one? I had some pink gooey stuff previously, 'Maskol' I think it was called. That's what I was referring to in describing it as a nightmare to remove. It also started drying out in the container after only a few months, whereas this blue stuff must have been on my self for two or three years at least...

[Bucoops]

That's the one - think it's a Humbrol product?

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

That's the one - think it's a Humbrol product?

 

Agreed - Maskol is cr*p!

 

CJI.

[Daddyman]

A trick picked up from Ian Rathbone is to use Copydex as masking fluid. Much easier to use than Maskol and lasts much longer.