East Barnet Joint Stock - a workbench

[Daddyman]

Nice work, Chas - the curve looks very even. 

 

17 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

I spent some time looking at the profile of the prototypes' curve and I think these results are close enough to pass muster: they're a little too tightly curved towards the bottom of the sides, but in the course of soldering them to partitions, floor-pans, doors and so forth I think it'll be easier to reduce the excess radius by a few degrees than it would be to increase it

It's very subtle on the real thing. I'd suggest gently rolling over the outside of your bend with something round - brass tube of 25mm or so diameter usually does it. It will be a useful technique with this tool in general (cab roofs, etc) - you're often going to over-roll things.  

 

Regards,

Another vice-free user of this tool. 

[gr.king]

21 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Meanwhile, in other news, I have taken up the post of Interim Secretary of the Great Northern Railway Society, which is very exciting! My appointment is 'Interim' at the moment as it has to be voted on and approved at the next suitable Society meeting in April, but I've already been organising forthcoming meetings, getting to know the other committee members and so forth and it's great to be involved in things.

Bravely volunteered Chas! You're excited too? A job for life (yours or the society's) I imagine.  In the current volunteer dearth, there can't be much likelihood that your candidacy will be opposed, or fail to gain approval, or indeed that you'll ever be ousted unless you make a terrible mess and influential enemies.

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Bravely volunteered Chas! You're excited too? A job for life (yours or the society's) I imagine.  In the current volunteer dearth, there can't be much likelihood that your candidacy will be opposed, or fail to gain approval, or indeed that you'll ever be ousted unless you make a terrible mess and influential enemies.

 

Or unless he and his fellow committee members increase the appeal and membership of the Society, recruiting the potential committee members of the future. That has to be the aim of any society committee, as is certainly now widely acknowledged within the line societies community.

 

The GNR Society has some excellent assets to exploit, with a copious catalogue of publications that I have often eyed with envy on their exhibition stand. If it wasn't that I'm a confirmed Midland enthusiast and hence turn my nose up at the Great Northern, I'd have indulged by now!

Edited February 14 by Compound2632

[Chas Levin]

6 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Nice work, Chas - the curve looks very even. 

 

It's very subtle on the real thing. I'd suggest gently rolling over the outside of your bend with something round - brass tube of 25mm or so diameter usually does it. It will be a useful technique with this tool in general (cab roofs, etc) - you're often going to over-roll things.  

 

Regards,

Another vice-free user of this tool. 

 

Thanks David and yes, you're right about the subtlety of the prototype:

 

 

You may have missed my most recent post though, at the foot of the previous page, where I said "I took another look at the curvatures last night and flattened a couple of areas out ever so slightly, where I think I'd been a tiny bit too enthusiastic..." and I did exactly as you suggest, putting the curved pieces onto the flat desktop and very gently going over them with a rounded metal shape (actually the extra lens frame from my LED mag lamp). The nickel-silver seems easily workable without having done any annealing and it easily and consistently de-curved. I was definitely too excited about using the new toy!

 

I'll be making partitions and door frames in due course, with edges made to conform as accurately as possible to the prototype side curvature and I can then match the turnunder to them.

[Chas Levin]

3 hours ago, gr.king said:

Bravely volunteered Chas! You're excited too? A job for life (yours or the society's) I imagine.  In the current volunteer dearth, there can't be much likelihood that your candidacy will be opposed, or fail to gain approval, or indeed that you'll ever be ousted unless you make a terrible mess and influential enemies.

 

Oh damn: making a terrible mess and influential enemies were near the top of my to-do list after being confirmed in post! I'll have to think of something else now... 🤔

 

I would hope too that the post will be approved, but it doesn't do to take things for granted so I didn't want to write on here that it's all confirmed when it isn't. But yes, I think it is exciting to be involved in something like this!

 

I hope there isn't too much of a volunteer dearth at present; there does seem to be one to a certain degree, going by the reports of more than one society. Hopefully new recruits - some of them towards the younger end of the model railway age range - will step into the gaps in due course. This subject comes up quite regularly on RM Web (on Tony Wright's 'Wright Writes' thread for instance) and on there, it usually generates some very optimistic replies, some of them from younger modellers pointing out that all is not lost - I felt very optimistic myself after the last airing there of this topic, which was of course triggered by the recent national press stories about the perceived unhealthy state of the hobby following the closure of both the Warley show and Hattons. Time will tell...

Edited February 14 by Chas Levin

[Chas Levin]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Or unless he and his fellow committee members increase the appeal and membership of the Society, recruiting the potential committee members of the future. That has to be the aim of any society committee, as is certainly now widely acknowledged within the line societies community.

 

 

That's a form of built-in obsolescence, isn't it, if we exert ourselves to attract those who will eventually succeed us. As you say though Stephen, it is - or should be - part of the natural cycle of renewal.

 

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The GNR Society has some excellent assets to exploit, with a copious catalogue of publications that I have often eyed with envy on their exhibition stand. If it wasn't that I'm a confirmed Midland enthusiast and hence turn my nose up at the Great Northern, I'd have indulged by now!

 

Yes, I'd certainly agree that we have a wealth of material - it was after all one of the major national trunk lines (some would argue that "The GNR was Britain's premier main line from 1870 to 1923": discuss, in less than 5000 words, to be handed in on Monday).

 

Now, in much the same way that you pointed out to me at Warley that just because I'm a GNR and LNER man, that shouldn't stop me from joining the Midland Railway Society (which I subsequently did), I feel I can put to you the same argument, that your "confirmed Midland enthusia(m)" shouldn't stop you from joining the GNRS! 😉

Edited February 14 by Chas Levin

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

in less than 5000 words

 

!

 

Statistically, the Great Northern was in the middle rank of companies, on a par with the Lancashire & Yorkshire and the Great Eastern. Different measures will give different rankings but consistently there was a "big four" of LNWR, MR, GWR, and NER, followed by the two largest Scottish companies. I have freight data for 1921 to hand, in thousands of tons, this favours the major coal haulers and disadvantages the Premier Line, which comes top in most other categories:

 

But of course, size isn't everything - just look how vibrant the Brighton-modelling community is.

[Daddyman]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Thanks David and yes, you're right about the subtlety of the prototype:

 

You may have missed my most recent post though, at the foot of the previous page, where I said "I took another look at the curvatures last night and flattened a couple of areas out ever so slightly, where I think I'd been a tiny bit too enthusiastic..." and I did exactly as you suggest, putting the curved pieces onto the flat desktop and very gently going over them with a rounded metal shape (actually the extra lens frame from my LED mag lamp). The nickel-silver seems easily workable without having done any annealing and it easily and consistently de-curved. I was definitely too excited about using the new toy!

 

Must have missed it, yes, Chas. I'd have rolled on a mouse mat, in order to make the rolling effect gentler (the workpiece will sink into the mat and therefore de-bend more subtly and controllably). Be careful rolling, over-rolling, de-rolling and re-rolling too much as the N/S may be soft now, but it will harden with working.   

 

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

!

 

Statistically, the Great Northern was in the middle rank of companies, on a par with the Lancashire & Yorkshire and the Great Eastern. Different measures will give different rankings but consistently there was a "big four" of LNWR, MR, GWR, and NER, followed by the two largest Scottish companies. I have freight data for 1921 to hand, in thousands of tons, this favours the major coal haulers and disadvantages the Premier Line, which comes top in most other categories:

 

But of course, size isn't everything - just look how vibrant the Brighton-modelling community is.

 

Hm; this is where I should say something to the effect that statistics can be made to prove anything (Mark Twain or Homer Simpson, depending on your cultural preferences).

 

When I described the GNR as Britain's premier line, I was of course not speaking in terms of cold, hard figures but rather, in terms of style, prestige and those ineffable qualities that distinguish the great from the many... 🍻 🥇 🔝

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Must have missed it, yes, Chas. I'd have rolled on a mouse mat, in order to make the rolling effect gentler (the workpiece will sink into the mat and therefore de-bend more subtly and controllably). Be careful rolling, over-rolling, de-rolling and re-rolling too much as the N/S may be soft now, but it will harden with working.   

 

 

That's an interesting idea David, de-bending on a mouse mat; I'll try that at some point, as I can see the advantages. I have to say though that in this case I found using an unyielding surface seemed to make the flattening of the bend easier to control.

 

And yes, I know of the effects of work-hardening but that shouldn't be a problem here, as I'm currently happy with the shape as it now is.

That being said, I inserted the word 'currently' there as I know myself well enough to be fairly sure I'll want to tweak the shape a tiny bit more when I come to assemble the body, so: do you know if work-hardening of metals like brass and NS is something that persists over time, something that accumulates over successive sessions, even when they're weeks apart?

Or do the effects of a session die away over time, so that another session a while later starts 'from zero' as it were?

I should have thought it similar to metal fatigue, where it fractures if you bend it repeatedly in quick succession, but you can bend it once or twice, then leave it a good long time and bend it again... 🤔

[Chas Levin]

I forgot to say, another thing I found interesting was that these etched sides curved very evenly in spite of the half-etched panelling and beading. I was concerned there might be some odd artefacts from those features and from forces against the beading being different from those across the half-etched panels - I thought perhaps the panels might buckle inwards towards their centres, for instance, but nothing like that happened, which is something useful to know about the rolling bars.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

When I described the GNR as Britain's premier line, I was of course not speaking in terms of cold, hard figures but rather, in terms of style, prestige and those ineffable qualities that distinguish the great from the many... 🍻 🥇 🔝

 

Ah, but some would then assume that you were referring to...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... the Caledonian

[Chas Levin]

18 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ah, but some would then assume that you were referring to...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... the Caledonian

 

Edited because I realised I must have misunderstood your meaning Stephen: was the Caledonian nicknamed the 'Premier Line' then?

Edited February 15 by Chas Levin

[Asterix2012]

4 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Edited because I realised I must have misunderstood your meaning Stephen: was the Caledonian nicknamed the 'Premier Line' then?

Caledonian was “The True Line” I think 

 

LNWR the premier line

[Chas Levin]

3 hours ago, Asterix2012 said:

Caledonian was “The True Line” I think 

 

LNWR the premier line

 

Ah - thank you, the penny is slowly dropping! There's a thread on here aboutline nicknames which I shall have to read...

[Chas Levin]

A very enjoyable visit yesterday to RISEX at Princes Risborough, where my favourite layout was Loughborough Road:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also very much liked the HO Polish layout Tamzynowo Wlk, but forgot to take photos of it! 🙄

[richard i]

Only issue I can see is it has a grounded body of a coach which would have been considered a top flight coach when the scene is set.

richard 

[Chas Levin]

41 minutes ago, richard i said:

Only issue I can see is it has a grounded body of a coach which would have been considered a top flight coach when the scene is set.

richard 

 

Interesting point Richard - my Midland knowledge isn't sufficient to have spotted that; I'd have spotted it on a GNR or LNER layout - at least, I hope I would have done!

[richard i]

I only noticed because it was a trap I was going to fall into before a friend pointed it out to me. The layout does look nicely modeled though. 
richard

[jimwal]

The grounded coach body howler. How many times have we seen good layouts spoilt by a BR meat van body in a pre-nationalization scene for example?

 

Ratio must take some blame for this, with kits for the coach shown above and a Southern van sold as grounded bodies.

[Compound2632]

On 19/02/2024 at 09:04, richard i said:

Only issue

 

?

 

Where to start? The preservation-era red LMS Standard 3F 0-6-0T... (Of course I had one when it was a Hornby model back in the early 80s!)

 

But a layout not being an accurate piece of historical modelling need not prevent one (or the builder) from enjoying it, and not necessarily ironically either. If it is being passed off as an accurate historical model, on the other hand...

Edited February 20 by Compound2632
sp.

[richard i]

Mea culpa.

[gr.king]

On 18/02/2024 at 20:22, Chas Levin said:

A very enjoyable visit yesterday to RISEX at Princes Risborough, where my favourite layout was Loughborough Road:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also very much liked the HO Polish layout Tamzynowo Wlk, but forgot to take photos of it! 🙄

For a supposed pre-group scene, I'm afraid the late 20th century Peco caricature of track, with FB rail and loads of short skinny sleepers, kills the illusion completely for me, although I can see that attention has been paid to selection of reasonable commercially available items to represent  other features.

[Chas Levin]

Well gents, fair comments all, but I only said it was my 'favourite' layout, I didn't make any claims for its authenticity! To put things in context a little, almost all the other layouts were less interesting to me personally either because they were not my geographical area, or they were too modern or because they were too small in scale (I tend to prefer 4mm and up), so this one appealed because it was rather closer to my tastes.

 

13 hours ago, jimwal said:

The grounded coach body howler. How many times have we seen good layouts spoilt by a BR meat van body in a pre-nationalization scene for example?

 

Ratio must take some blame for this, with kits for the coach shown above and a Southern van sold as grounded bodies.

 

Yes, I've wondered before now why certain vehicles are chosen as grounded body kits and assumed they must be aimed at the presumably large section of the modelling public who are not especially choosy as to railway company. I wonder what the sales figures are for those kits?

 

I guess anyone aiming at a more consistently authentic look would make their on grounded bodies from kits of correct rolling stock for ther era and area: that's certainly what I have in mind for one in due course...

[Chas Levin]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

But a layout not being an accurate piece of historical modelling need not prevent one (or the builder) from enjoying it, and not necessarily ironically either. If it is being passed off as an accurate historical model, on the other hand...

 

Yes, absolutely: it looked very attractive in real life (the photos don't do it justice) and I certainly enjoyed it. I'm not sure whether it was intended as an accurate historical model or not; I didn't stay and chat as we were going on from the show to meet a friend for lunch just outside the town.

 

1 hour ago, gr.king said:

For a supposed pre-group scene, I'm afraid the late 20th century Peco caricature of track, with FB rail and loads of short skinny sleepers, kills the illusion completely for me, although I can see that attention has been paid to selection of reasonable commercially available items to represent  other features.

 

And I'd say the same Graeme as I said to Stephen above: with soft-focus specs on, it was very pretty!

 

Actually Graeme, I seem to recall from something you said once that your line of business was optical - is that right? If so, you could attend shows wearing one of those multi-lens contraptions (google tells me they are called Optometry Trial Frames) and pop some extra lenses in for layouts whose detail is best kept indistinct but whose overall impression is very pleasant... 😉