brossard Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 I'm building, rescuing really, subject wagon, a Parkside kit: https://anticsonline.uk/N425/N1322/N2311/N2384_o-gauge-GWR-goods-wagon-kit-peco-parkside-slaters/1945280_Parkside-O-gauge-kit-PS27-GWR-12T-Open-Wagon.html It was given to me (I won't buy kit built wagons) and it was so bad I almost put it in the "forget it" box. However, wagons deserve to be properly built so I am doing that. I have replaced a lot of parts that were unsalvageable. You call it Frankenwagon. GWR of course installed the sheet rail but I'm wondering if BR removed these and when. I know that the sheets tended to rot out the wooden boards on the ends and BR installed steel channel on some wagons (as I have). The wagon is intended to be in the mid 50s era. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2020 Have you looked on Paul Bartlett's site, HMRS Paul of this parish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, brossard said: GWR of course installed the sheet rail but I'm wondering if BR removed these and when. I know that the sheets tended to rot out the wooden boards on the ends and BR installed steel channel on some wagons (as I have). The wagon is intended to be in the mid 50s era. John Well, I guess it depends - the images in Paul Bartlett's galleries - https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwropenmerchandiseowv - show these wagons late in life, critically, after the survivors were vacuum fitted which seems a reasonable point for a sheet rail to be removed. Having fitted steel channels you might want to consider vac' brakes as well? Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 I did check Paul's site and found pictures of them in departmental use. The pics tended to be taken in the '80s so are probably not representative of the situation a few years after nationalization. The wagon is going to be vac fitted, my plan was to install a GWR type of stand pipe but perhaps it should have a BR type of lower vac pipe. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 The steel channels were due to loads moving in transit and were originally allocated to certain duties with the user, destinations, etc painted on the side. Something like "Pipes to work to XYZ only". I think it was Staveley even though Staveley was on the LMR. I can't remember the source though. I think it was a post war/early BR measure due to a lack of suitable wagons and a lot of building/infrastructure work going on. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Makes sense, if the wagon is loaded with steel, it might go through wooden boards. Thanks for that info. I think it logical to assume that these wagons would have their sheet rail apparatus removed? John Edited May 30, 2020 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, brossard said: The wagon is going to be vac fitted, my plan was to install a GWR type of stand pipe but perhaps it should have a BR type of lower vac pipe. GWR built these fitted as well as unfitted so some had the upright vac pipes. Western steam in colour, Ballantyne, p60, 1964 steel channel and sheet rail on one, all wooden no rail on another & a 3rd one has a rail but cant see the ends. What I dont know is when replacement buffers and axle boxes tended to happen - as you point out Paul Bartletts photos are excellent and show lots of variations but these may have happened after my late 50s era. Edited May 31, 2020 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted May 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said: I think it was Staveley even though Staveley was on the LMR. Really?? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Hal Nail said: GWR built these fitted as well as unfitted so some had the upright vac pipes. Western steam in colour, Ballantyne, p60, 1964 steel channel and sheet rail on one, all wooden no rail on another & a 3rd one has a rail but cant see the ends. What I dont know is when replacement buffers and axle boxes tended to happen - as you point out Paul Bartletts photos are excellent and show lots of variations but these may have happened after my late 50s era. M Thanks Hal, now I'm getting more and more confused. I'll just have to make a decision, chances are, whatever I do, I won't be proven wrong. I built one of these a while ago with wooden ends, standpipe and sheet rail. I always like to add variation to wagons. John Edited May 30, 2020 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 OK, I think I have found an answer. In Geoff Kent's "The 4mm Wagon, Vol 1", there is a picture on P22 of O33 W135941. This has standpipe and no sign of a sheet rail. It has wooden ends also. It has BR axleboxes so I will have a stab at producing these. So comforting to find a good picture. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted May 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 31, 2020 6 hours ago, brossard said: OK, I think I have found an answer. In Geoff Kent's "The 4mm Wagon, Vol 1", there is a picture on P22 of O33 W135941. This has standpipe and no sign of a sheet rail. It has wooden ends also. It has BR axleboxes so I will have a stab at producing these. O33 was the GWR fitted version so had standpipes. O32 was built unfitted but retro fitted by BR in 50s so had the low type. Apart from that they looked the same. I think ftting of channel was random (ie where damage had occured) as was removal of sheet rails. So you can find any combo but a photo always adds reassurance! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 Hal, yes, standpipes. I was thinking that perhaps some of the wagons may have got the BR type of lower vac pipe over the years. So, now I have a good photo, I shall copy that. It is always good to throw ideas around. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted May 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, brossard said: I was thinking that perhaps some of the wagons may have got the BR type of lower vac pipe over the years. Well that's quite possible but its already hard enough without BR interference being throw in What buffers are you using? I tend to sand the Parkside ones to a closer approximation of GWR ones Most of these wagons on Paul Bartletts site have 5 1/2 planks with a thin one inserted instead of the usual extra wide one. I assume that's a more recent practice when repairs were needed. There are also a lot of O37s in his photos and I cant spot any differences between these and the earlier diagram so thats an easy variant and an O42 which has BR style W irons although just realised these could be a later repair. Edited May 31, 2020 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 As I said earlier, confusing. The Parkside buffers are usually RCH. The GWR buffers are more slender and did not have prominent ribs so I have LMS van buffers which look a lot closer to the drawings I've seen. I never thought of modifying Parkside buffers. I'll take a look. Yes, I noticed a lot of O37s and couldn't any difference either. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Hal Nail said: There are also a lot of O37s in his photos and I cant spot any differences between these and the earlier diagram so thats an easy variant and an O42 which has BR style W irons although just realised these could be a later repair. The 037 diagram is 1943 and they had "hardwood sheeting". This means the sides and ends are thinner than on the 032/3s and the internal length and width correspondingly longer and wider. Surprising idea that the expensive hardwood was easier to come by than softwoods at that time! I rather doubt this would have been continued when the planks were replaced and could account for some appearing to have planks of varying thickness, such as https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwropenmerchandiseowv/e1b6c53b8 Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted May 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, hmrspaul said: The 037 diagram is 1943 and they had "hardwood sheeting". This means the sides and ends are thinner than on the 032/3s and the internal length and width correspondingly longer and wider. Surprising idea that the expensive hardwood was easier to come by than softwoods at that time! I rather doubt this would have been continued when the planks were replaced and could account for some appearing to have planks of varying thickness, such as https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwropenmerchandiseowv/e1b6c53b8 Paul Brilliant thanks. Do you happen to know where they actually built with 5 1/2 planks as opposed to 5 but with one half again higher than the rest, (which has either split or been replaced)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 37 minutes ago, Hal Nail said: Brilliant thanks. Do you happen to know where they actually built with 5 1/2 planks as opposed to 5 but with one half again higher than the rest, (which has either split or been replaced)? Surely this can be seen from the photos in the appropriate books? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 Just to close out my question: Thanks all. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted June 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 8, 2020 John, Has your Morton clutch (the comma) dropped a little? Should be on the pip at the apex of the v, which is meant to represent the end of the crank, so that the comma engages with the brake lever and turns the crank the other way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 I had to do a bit of scratch building to represent the clutch. You're not supposed to notice. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted June 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, brossard said: I had to do a bit of scratch building to represent the clutch. You're not supposed to notice. John Ha! Well you know, if you keep setting the bar high.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 We keep trying. You didn't notice that I left off the door bangers, I just fixed them. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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