More model ideas

[Dunsignalling]

23 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I haven't seen as many Polybulks going for much more than the latest ones from Rails recently so they seem to consistently be going for around £80 even if some asking prices are higher. Still a lot for a single wagon

But Polybulks can't be compared to most other wagons, on which RRPs, even for good new-tooling 2-axle steam-era ones, are now significantly topping the 30-quid mark, and not just from Bachmann.

 

Nearest fair comparison is a quality coach, plus a fair quantity of extra, complex detail, on which basis £80 whilst a bit OTT (right now) may look fairly reasonable in a year or two.

 

The problem is not so much the individual price, but the collective one involved in making up a sensible rake (minimum of five, IMHO).

 

John

Edited May 24, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, Banger Blue said:

 

Another vote here for a Polybulk (especially in grainflow livery)

 

 

Only need to buy one to have a prototypical train! 😁

 

03170 Birkenhead Docks 1986 (Credit: Andrew Gallon on Flickr)

Agreed, but that's not actually a train, Those go from A to B whereas the above photo just illustrates a couple of wagons being shuffled around "B".

 

If your layout is of such a size that you only need one, price is presumably less of an issue than availability and we are back to the old question of "can't afford" or choosing not to....

Edited May 24, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[McC]

9 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

But Polybulks can't be compared to most other wagons, on which RRPs, even for good new-tooling 2-axle steam-era ones, are now significantly topping the 30-quid mark, and not just from Bachmann.

 

Nearest fair comparison is a quality coach, plus a fair quantity of extra, complex detail, on which basis £80 whilst a bit OTT (right now) may look fairly reasonable in a year or two.

 

The problem is not so much the individual price, but the collective one involved in making up a sensible rake (minimum of five, IMHO).

 

John

 

We also make quality coaches, with glazing, much more parts than any wagon, and full interior lighting with stay alive, and they are £53.95 when you buy two or more. ;) 

[Dunsignalling]

44 minutes ago, McC said:

 

We also make quality coaches, with glazing, much more parts than any wagon, and full interior lighting with stay alive, and they are £53.95 when you buy two or more. ;) 

 

True, and I eagerly anticipate buying some when you get round to prototypes that fit my interests.

 

The points I am trying to get across are that [1] on a calculation of price per train-foot, a Bachmann Polybulk costs little more than a similar length of swb Hornby wagons made from 1970s tooling and [2] that if one desires an item that is only available from one source, one pays the price or does without.

 

On the basis of your above post, your business model would clearly allow you to undercut Bachmann's price by around half. However, there is a judgement to be made as to whether the unsatisfied demand that remains for Polybulks is sufficient to make doing so worthwhile.

 

Where an extant product is of decent quality (which hasn't been the criticism of the Bachmann one), the old shouldn't look out-of-place alongside the new, and current owners may not see a need to replace those they already have, though they might buy a few to expand their trains....   

 

John

 

    

Edited May 24, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Chrisr40]

I can only speak personally, but I have an unsatisfied demand for polybulks (oooer missus) but the Bachmann model whilst good is out of my reach on price if I want 3 or 4 for a half decent train. I also seem to remember there was disappointment among many people on here who kicked themselves for not buying them when they were thirty quid a go.

[GordonC]

59 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

True, and I eagerly anticipate buying some when you get round to prototypes that fit my interests.

 

The points I am trying to get across are that [1] on a calculation of price per train-foot, a Bachmann Polybulk costs little more than a similar length of swb Hornby wagons made from 1970s tooling and [2] that if one desires an item that is only available from one source, one pays the price or does without.

 

On the basis of your above post, your business model would clearly allow you to undercut Bachmann's price by around half. However, there is a judgement to be made as to whether the unsatisfied demand that remains for Polybulks is sufficient to make doing so worthwhile.

 

Where an extant product is of decent quality (which hasn't been the criticism of the Bachmann one), the old shouldn't look out-of-place alongside the new, and current owners may not see a need to replace those they already have, though they might buy a few to expand their trains....   

 

John

 

    

 

I'd be a whole lot more interested in the larger grain Polybulks than a duplicate of the Bachmann china-clay ones

[Troublesome Trucks]

10 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

I'd be a whole lot more interested in the larger grain Polybulks than a duplicate of the Bachmann china-clay ones

Yes,and so would I.There are however several different variations of the larger polybulk which were used to carry grain.So on the basis so far not one manufacturer has taken the decision to produce any example,the question to Mc C is perhaps why does he think it remains on some of our wish lists and our prayers remain unanswered?

Edited May 24, 2023 by Troublesome Trucks

[McC]

15 minutes ago, Troublesome Trucks said:

Yes,and so would I.There are however several different variations of the larger polybulk which were used to carry grain.So on the basis so far not one manufacturer has taken the decision to produce any example,the question to Mr C is perhaps why does he think it remains on some of our wish lists and our prayers remain unanswered?

 

The trouble with answering prayers is that it takes time (and money) :) Who knows what we, or others are working on, as even for a wagon, it can be 12-18 months just to reach satisfactory CAD and research, let alone tool, test, deco, test, produce, assemble, test and ship (which normally takes another year)

[Flying Pig]

28 minutes ago, McC said:

 

The trouble with answering prayers is that it takes time (and money) :) Who knows what we, or others are working on, as even for a wagon, it can be 12-18 months just to reach satisfactory CAD and research, let alone tool, test, deco, test, produce, assemble, test and ship (which normally takes another year)

 

Disappointing.  We expect you to be able to do it with five of these and a couple of fish vans.

[97406]

1 hour ago, Troublesome Trucks said:

Yes,and so would I.There are however several different variations of the larger polybulk which were used to carry grain.So on the basis so far not one manufacturer has taken the decision to produce any example,the question to Mr C is perhaps why does he think it remains on some of our wish lists and our prayers remain unanswered?

He was really good on ‘Move any Mountain’ and ‘Ebeneezer Goode’!

[Chrisr40]

19 minutes ago, 97406 said:

He was really good on ‘Move any Mountain’ and ‘Ebeneezer Goode’!

Got any salmon ? Lovely

[97406]

41 minutes ago, Chrisr40 said:

Got any salmon ? Lovely

 

Hornby are already doing one!

[The Ghost of IKB]

6 hours ago, McC said:

 

The trouble with answering prayers is that it takes time (and money) :) Who knows what we, or others are working on, as even for a wagon, it can be 12-18 months just to reach satisfactory CAD and research, let alone tool, test, deco, test, produce, assemble, test and ship (which normally takes another year)

Not to mention youre busy working on the class 40 first, right?

[D860 VICTORIOUS]

6 hours ago, Chrisr40 said:

I can only speak personally, but I have an unsatisfied demand for polybulks (oooer missus) but the Bachmann model whilst good is out of my reach on price if I want 3 or 4 for a half decent train. I also seem to remember there was disappointment among many people on here who kicked themselves for not buying them when they were thirty quid a go.

Rooting around in my storage crates last week,I found I had seven Polybulks,two had price labels of 28 quid!

That price soon went up to around £46.

For my money,they're the best r-t-r wagon yet produced...

[Chrisr40]

2 hours ago, D860 VICTORIOUS said:

Rooting around in my storage crates last week,I found I had seven Polybulks,two had price labels of 28 quid!

That price soon went up to around £46.

For my money,they're the best r-t-r wagon yet produced...

I'd be more than happy to give you 28 pounds each now if you feel like you aren't using them ? 😁

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, D860 VICTORIOUS said:

Rooting around in my storage crates last week,I found I had seven Polybulks,two had price labels of 28 quid!

That price soon went up to around £46.

For my money,they're the best r-t-r wagon yet produced...

It was one of the items that exposed the lack of profit generation in much Bachmann output at the time.

 

Another was the Presflo. I built up a nice rake, about twenty, of the Blue Circle ones when first introduced - two or three every payday! My first half-dozen had retailer price tags marked £8-95, at which I doubted anybody was making much out of them. They went up to a more realistic level of around eleven pretty sharpish IIRC, and the most recent releases haven't been far short of forty quid!

 

There's another thought, the longer version of the Presflo built for carrying fly-ash.... 

 

John  

[Budgie]

From the way people are talking about how these models were very cheap, but now they are very expensive, maybe somebody ought to start building time machines so we can all go back into the past and snap up all the models at the cheap prices and bring them back to the present.

 

[PieGuyRob]

1 hour ago, Budgie said:

From the way people are talking about how these models were very cheap, but now they are very expensive, maybe somebody ought to start building time machines so we can all go back into the past and snap up all the models at the cheap prices and bring them back to the present.

 

Will the Delorean's boot be big enough?

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, PieGuyRob said:

Will the Delorean's boot be big enough?

Do the back seats fold down?

 

Seriously, though, we really shouldn't expect our models to cost the same as they did twenty years ago, look how the prices of pretty much everything else we buy have moved in that time. 

 

OK Bachmann stuff has led the way, but they are working within constraints that others do not, even Hornby, and their prices are rapidly catching up.

 

Maybe I'm fortunate, but aside from (steam era) wagons and BR Mk1 coaches, which I bought in ones and twos but very regularly, Bachmann has never made much that I have "needed" in quantity or felt any urgency to buy all that I did quickly . 

 

The industry has changed, though, with supply tending to appear in "windows of opportunity" much more than in the past. I suspect that it's not just rising prices we are noticing, but that "FOMO" may be providing our sensitivity to them with an extra shove?

 

My personal solution (nothing revolutionary, and I fully realise our lives can't all be organised the same way), is to set aside a modelling budget but not spend it every month just because it's there! Because I resist the "nice but not necessary", the funds are available for items I really want when they do come along, and the price assumes less importance. I also never need to use the weasel word "justify".

 

I find the greater need to pre-order these days is actually a great assistance to forward planning and self-discipline!

 

John

Edited May 25, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[PieGuyRob]

42 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Do the back seats fold down?

That's where the flux capacitor and the Mr. Fusion device are.😎

[McC]

51 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Do the back seats fold down?

 

Seriously, though, we really shouldn't expect our models to cost the same as they did twenty years ago, look how the prices of pretty much everything else we buy have moved in that time. 

 

OK Bachmann stuff has led the way, but they are working within constraints that others do not, even Hornby, and their prices are rapidly catching up.

 

Maybe I'm fortunate, but aside from (steam era) wagons and BR Mk1 coaches, which I bought in ones and twos but very regularly, Bachmann has never made much that I have "needed" in quantity or felt any urgency to buy all that I did quickly . 

 

The industry has changed, though, with supply tending to appear in "windows of opportunity" much more than in the past. I suspect that it's not just rising prices we are noticing, but that "FOMO" may be providing our sensitivity to them with an extra shove?

 

My personal solution (nothing revolutionary, and I fully realise our lives can't all be organised the same way), is to set aside a modelling budget but not spend it every month just because it's there! Because I resist the "nice but not necessary", the funds are available for items I really want when they do come along, and the price assumes less importance. I also never need to use the weasel word "justify".

 

I find the greater need to pre-order these days is actually a great assistance to forward planning and self-discipline!

 

John

 

Ironically we know, for example, that our runs are larger, in some cases much larger, than typical runs a decade ago or even five years ago, so it’s not a shortage of supply, it’s a thriving hobby! Regarding preorders we’ve repeatedly asked for feedback and been repeatedly told customers want ‘warning’ and to plan ahead or use split payments and such, and to not stop announcing 9-18 months ahead of time. 

The positive side is that the increased volumes, high demand and ease of preorder keeps our prices low. It’s a win win. 

[Dunsignalling]

17 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Ironically we know, for example, that our runs are larger, in some cases much larger, than typical runs a decade ago or even five years ago, so it’s not a shortage of supply, it’s a thriving hobby! Regarding preorders we’ve repeatedly asked for feedback and been repeatedly told customers want ‘warning’ and to plan ahead or use split payments and such, and to not stop announcing 9-18 months ahead of time. 

The positive side is that the increased volumes, high demand and ease of preorder keeps our prices low. It’s a win win. 

I should stress that I don't perceive Accurascale to be among the "short suppliers", and I definitely appreciate the advance notice of wallet-draining!

 

The main culprit on both counts sells their products in red boxes, relatively few of which have darkened my door in recent times due to a complete lack of personal interest in most of what they have offered!  

 

Most of my planned expenditure (sorry) is lately going in the direction of the other Kent-based outfit, though the Siphons, Manor and Banana vans will redress the balance somewhat. More steam-era SR will ensure my continued devotion!

 

John

Edited May 25, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[StuAllen]

35 minutes ago, McC said:

and to not stop announcing 9-18 months ahead of time. 

Speaking of announcements - when’s the next one due? 

[NZRedBaron]

Well, I can't really give any specific examples, but some more pre-Grouping and Grouping era wagons and vans would be nice to see too; things outside the usual would be a bonus as well, like rtr brick and tube wagons, or something akin to the North British Railway's six-wheeled 15 ton goods vans, which lasted into BR days.

[D860 VICTORIOUS]

12 hours ago, Chrisr40 said:

I'd be more than happy to give you 28 pounds each now if you feel like you aren't using them ? 😁

Hi Chris,

You're being more than fair 😊,but I think I'll hang on to them! They're part of the grand layout plan that hasn't got anywhere yet...

Regarding your "unsatisfied demand for Polybulks",nowadays there may be cream available for that....just saying!

Also realised that in that post I said the Polybulk was the best r-t-r model yet....in a Accurascale forum. Apologies to you chaps,I do have some of your fine wagons!