The Night Mail

[Gwiwer]

15 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

All those who support the death penalty should be made to answer this question. If your nearest and dearest is about to be hanged for a crime they didn't commit would you still support the death penalty?

I might still support the death penalty* but I would definitely question the justice system 

 

* Nothing in this post should be inferred as stating my opinion on the matter one way or another. 

[SM42]

23 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

 Likewise, if they are subsequently found not guilty on appeal, then they won't have done a long stretch.

 

But they will have bed and board deducted from any compensation they are paid.

 

Andy

[New Haven Neil]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I am saved...For the present time.

 

Much as I like the latest Lionheart 7 mm offerings; a 45xx prairie tank and a BR standard tank of the same wheel arrangement, they do not fit into my current and immediate future plans.

 

BR(W) culled the 45xx from the South Wales area in the early to mid 50's, although their younger sisters, the 4575 class did survive a little longer until the arrival of the Class 116 DMUs.

 

Likewise the BR 82xxx tanks did make an early appearance at Barry, but they soon moved onto pastures new, again victims of the Class 116.

 

As a result, I can look in the window and wish, but breathe a sigh of relief as my wallet will stay safely in my pocket.

 

 

 

Unfortunately one of the Ben Ashworth books has a photo of a 45 up the forest.....aagh!

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

All those who support the death penalty should be made to answer this question. If your nearest and dearest is about to be hanged for a crime they didn't commit would you still support the death penalty?

Exactly and it's a question very right-wing politicians should be forced to answer, publicly and in front of their children.  

 

It is the same with those politicians who talk in bombastic language about Sending in the Troops; always in the certain knowledge that none of their family will be anywhere near the war zone (but all too often, will be supplying the military with equipment).  Summed up in a quote I read this week: "War leads to the death of people who don't deserve to die and enriches those who don't deserve to live".

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

Unfortunately one of the Ben Ashworth books has a photo of a 45 up the forest.....aagh!

And I would say that Gloucester's 4564 would look very nice on your FoD line, hauling a train of Berry Wiggins tank wagons.

 

 

 

Oh and Dapol/Lionheart intend to do this very loco!

 

I saw the prototype model running at Llandrinio before lockdown.  It was lovely.

 

Go on, you know it makes sense.....

 

Unless you are an advocate of my 'Balanced Locomotive Stud' approach.

[polybear]

4 hours ago, br2975 said:

 

Having spent most of my working life in the police - I have worked on numerous murder investigations, including one (now) notorious miscarriage of justice.

.

There are one or two individuals I have encountered whom I  feel I could "double tap" and would be doing society a favour, and I could sleep soundly afterwards.

. 

But, that is not our way, and, what is more, I cannot support the death penalty.................. my reasoning being;

.

Victims are human

Assailants, are human.

Witnesses, are human.

Police, are human,

Forensic scientists are human.

Jurors, are human,

Judges, are human.

.

All the above, being human, have human failings and frailties.

.

Sadly, It only takes the execution of one innocent man, to negate the case for capital punishment

.

Imagine what goes through the mind of an innocent man as the noose is placed around his neck ?

.

In most (but not all) of those such serious investigations in which I have been involved the defendant(s) have been from troublesome families, or have been career criminals, whose recidivist relatives would benefit financially  from any compensation arising out of 'topping' their relative by mistake; - and most would prefer the money to having their executed relative still alive, such is the way these families live.

 

Let life mean life, with tariffs that mean a 'whole life' sentence - not parole within 13 years.

 

There are some where this Bear would gladly like to see despatched - Levi Bellfield is one example.  Serial Killer, two whole-life sentences, yet has applied for permission to Marry (WTF?).  If such people are to be imprisoned forever then it's really gotta be no fun at all - permanent solitary confinement, exercise alone once a day, no telly/radio/computers/courses/workshops/visitors/phone calls etc.  

And if they don't fancy that then give them the option of an injection.  Their call.

[New Haven Neil]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

And I would say that Gloucester's 4564 would look very nice on your FoD line, hauling a train of Berry Wiggins tank wagons.

 

 

 

Oh and Dapol/Lionheart intend to do this very loco!

 

I saw the prototype model running at Llandrinio before lockdown.  It was lovely.

 

Go on, you know it makes sense.....

 

Unless you are an advocate of my 'Balanced Locomotive Stud' approach.

 

Well I've got a Berry Wiggins tank......  😉.

 

Balanced?  For a locoholic?

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Hello all,

 

Tis been a while.

 

Some news:

 

1. Apparently, I am not clinically depressed, which is nice to know i guess. We recently hired me a therapist, and her preliminary "examination" of me suggest so. Said therapist is a very interesting lady, grew up just down the street from Southampton dockyard and is the only person I've ever met who has flown in a Harrier jump jet. The doom has worsened as of late, however school ends for the year next Wednesday so perhaps that will improve it. I doubt it though.

 

2. Brunel has acquired outside motion, and it works as well. Only one set has been made so far but the other will be done probably by Sunday night. Here are some pictures. The cylinders are carved hardwood with brass sleeves, and the big ends have proper brass block bearings in them. The cylinders also have a removable ivory veneer on one side.

 

 

 

 

3. A rather historic engine was bought. Kind of. A few weeks back the mortal remains of an extremely well built but ancient O gauge Great Northern Railway C1 4-4-2 showed up on ebay for tuppence and on a whim i snatched it up. After further research, it appears to be the remains of an engine commissioned (probably through Bassett Lowke) from C. Butcher & Co of Watford, who were makers of proper scale model engines before 1916. This engine probably dates from around 1911. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it, other than fix the drooping cylinder. Its unmotorized although I don't know what the boiler holds. Not live steam according to the seller so I'm assuming air.

 

 

 

 

 

(much thanks to @polybearfor his concern on ERs)

 

 

Douglas

[jamie92208]

Great to see you back Douglas and keep up the modelling. You have been missed.

 

Jamie

[New Haven Neil]

Sorry to hear you have impending doom feelings, Douglas.  School was much like that for me, however further education was a very different, and hence enjoyable, matter.  You'll get through, we're always here in support.

 

The Atlantic is interesting, the shell of the boiler itself almost looks as if intended to be steam, but the loco has no valve gear - or valve chests by the look of it, so presumably not intended to be an operating model?  It looks very well made indeed, and is worth doing some work on to complete.  The rigid rear truck may cause issues on curves though!

[iL Dottore]

11 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

…..Unless you are an advocate of my 'Balanced Locomotive Stud' approach.

Balanced Locomotive Stud. Wozzat? 

My locomotive purchases are based on 3 things a) do I like it, b) can I afford it and c) does it fit into my chosen era (c is often optional)

 

Anyway, Rule 1 applies.

 

Welcome back “Flo” (Douglas).
 

In regards to depression there is one thing to consider: depression can be endogenous or exogenous. Exogenous depression is created in individuals by outside events - from the loss of a spouse to an unpleasant working environment. Frequently, just a small change in the external environment can result in a huge difference in mood. With school ending soon, you (Douglas) should notice a difference. But be aware of a self-imposed self-fulfilling prophecy - in other words if you expect to see no change then you are setting yourself up to experience no change.

Sir Winston Churchill had some wise words which apply to many, many aspects of human behaviour “prepare for the worst, hope for the best”

[Happy Hippo]

Nice to see you back Douglas.

 

Vintage models are a absolute nightmare, and a quick glance at the photos of your Atlantic would make me question that it was ever finished. There are no fixing holes other attachments for the running boards and splashers to indicate that originally they had been fitted, but since been removed.  It shows some very detailed work around the cylinders, yet the castings for the safety valve cover and the trailing outside frame axle boxes are crude by comparison.

 

Looking at the patina on the brass work,  I'd hazard a guess that it's never seen a coat of paint.

 

The other issue of note is that there is no visible means of drive!  No valve gear,  nor gears for electric or clockwork drive. 

 

As for it's parentage, I'm not sure. I'm minded to say it has the hallmarks of being an unfinished display model, but I'm sure that the likes of Mark Carne would probably be able to give a more authoritative answer.

 

The vacuum pipe on the front is also facing the wrong way🤣.

 

 

 

 

[PhilJ W]

8 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

 A rather historic engine was bought. Kind of. A few weeks back the mortal remains of an extremely well built but ancient O gauge Great Northern Railway C1 4-4-2 showed up on ebay for tuppence and on a whim i snatched it up. After further research, it appears to be the remains of an engine commissioned (probably through Bassett Lowke) from C. Butcher & Co of Watford, who were makers of proper scale model engines before 1916. This engine probably dates from around 1911. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it, other than fix the drooping cylinder. Its unmotorized although I don't know what the boiler holds. Not live steam according to the seller so I'm assuming air.

 

 

 

 

 

(much thanks to @polybearfor his concern on ERs)

 

 

Douglas

 

38 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Nice to see you back Douglas.

 

Vintage models are a absolute nightmare, and a quick glance at the photos of your Atlantic would make me question that it was ever finished. There are no fixing holes other attachments for the running boards and splashers to indicate that originally they had been fitted, but since been removed.  It shows some very detailed work around the cylinders, yet the castings for the safety valve cover and the trailing outside frame axle boxes are crude by comparison.

 

Looking at the patina on the brass work,  I'd hazard a guess that it's never seen a coat of paint.

 

The other issue of note is that there is no visible means of drive!  No valve gear,  nor gears for electric or clockwork drive. 

 

As for it's parentage, I'm not sure. I'm minded to say it has the hallmarks of being an unfinished display model, but I'm sure that the likes of Mark Carne would probably be able to give a more authoritative answer.

 

The vacuum pipe on the front is also facing the wrong way🤣.

 

 

 

 

I agree with HH that its probably an unfinished model. There appears to have been a provision for the rear truck to slide (a little) from side to side.

Edited May 13, 2022 by PhilJ W

[Florence Locomotive Works]

5 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

Sorry to hear you have impending doom feelings, Douglas.  School was much like that for me, however further education was a very different, and hence enjoyable, matter.  You'll get through, we're always here in support.

 

The Atlantic is interesting, the shell of the boiler itself almost looks as if intended to be steam, but the loco has no valve gear - or valve chests by the look of it, so presumably not intended to be an operating model?  It looks very well made indeed, and is worth doing some work on to complete.  The rigid rear truck may cause issues on curves though!

 

3 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Nice to see you back Douglas.

 

Vintage models are a absolute nightmare, and a quick glance at the photos of your Atlantic would make me question that it was ever finished. There are no fixing holes other attachments for the running boards and splashers to indicate that originally they had been fitted, but since been removed.  It shows some very detailed work around the cylinders, yet the castings for the safety valve cover and the trailing outside frame axle boxes are crude by comparison.

 

Looking at the patina on the brass work,  I'd hazard a guess that it's never seen a coat of paint.

 

The other issue of note is that there is no visible means of drive!  No valve gear,  nor gears for electric or clockwork drive. 

 

As for it's parentage, I'm not sure. I'm minded to say it has the hallmarks of being an unfinished display model, but I'm sure that the likes of Mark Carne would probably be able to give a more authoritative answer.

 

The vacuum pipe on the front is also facing the wrong way🤣.

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

 

I agree with HH that its probably an unfinished model. There appears to have been a provision for the rear truck to slide (a little) from side to side.

Agreed. In other photos though there are affixing points for the splashers, very odd ones but they do exist. If you look closely the splashed are designed to slide in between the cylinder and faux valve chest casting below the smokebox. I’ve attempted to contact Mark but his PM’s are shut off for various reasons. I have been in contact though with an individual who owns another Butcher engine (G2 LBSCR Abergavenny 4-6-2t) and the construction and components are extremely similar. 

[Happy Hippo]

A mixed afternoon occurred with bouts of gardening, lugging materiel about from the front to the back of the hippodrome, interspersed with the making up of the first of the scenic board to cassette  joiners.

 

Taking my time and using patience produced a smooth workable connection, although it is by no means perfect.

 

I can make the remaining pair up tomorrow morning.

 

After that's done, I will be able to crack on with building the first of the scenic breaks....  The rather cliched road over rail bridge.

 

I'm going to try and build this out of individually cut EPS foam blocks over an XPS foam (Kingspan) former.

[AndyID]

36 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

After that's done, I will be able to crack on with building the first of the scenic breaks....  The rather cliched road over rail bridge.

 

 

Don't forget to put a bus on it and make sure the front wheels are pointing straight ahead.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Well what should arrive in the mail today two weeks early but a mystery GNR 4-4-2.

 

On close examination this engine was not built by C. Butcher of Watford. In fact it was made by a Arthur Fickle (or Ficke) in 1950, according to the very neatly scribed writing under the remains of the running plate. I’ve no idea who he was, but he certainly knew how to make an engine, and must have had a technical background and access to a watchmakers workshop. The vast majority of the screws used on the engine are watchmaking size, especially those holding the covers over the trailing axle box, which oddly enough has loads of play after I cleaned the bearings!

 

 

 

 

 

More evidence of its being at one point finished were found, amounting to some ancient apple green paint found on the very bottom of the boiler. The boiler also has a hole in it directly above a driver axles, presumably to take some shafting. There’s another hole on the backhead, so I’m guessing it had a tender motor with shafting running to the boiler.

 

 

Currently I’m not sure what to do with it. Probably finish it off. 
 

(the vacuum pipe was discovered to be loose and can be made to face the correct direction)

 

Douglas

Edited May 13, 2022 by Florence Locomotive Works

[Happy Hippo]

10 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

More evidence of its being at one point finished were found, amounting to some ancient apple green paint found on the very bottom of the boiler. The boiler also has a hole in it directly above a driver axles, presumably to take some shafting. There’s another hole on the backhead, so I’m guessing it had a tender motor with shafting running to the boiler.

 

A motor in the tender with a cardan shaft transferring the drive to the loco wheels used to be an accepted method with 4-4-0 locos, which can end up nose heavy.  (I think an Atlantic should be slightly better balanced.)  Using this method does mean one can pack extra weight in the boiler over the driving wheels improving the locos haulage capacity. 

 

The other way, not applicable in this case, was to weigh the front of the tender and have it transfer downward force, via the drawbar, onto the rear of the loco and 'lifting' the weight off the front bogie.

 

It's nice and sunny outside, so I suspect I will be splitting my time between the garden and the railway.

 

The postie has just delivered the stuff I was waiting for:  Unfortunately it's for the garden, so that's where I'll be starting!

[Winslow Boy]

11 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

A motor in the tender with a cardan shaft transferring the drive to the loco wheels used to be an accepted method with 4-4-0 locos, which can end up nose heavy.  (I think an Atlantic should be slightly better balanced.)  Using this method does mean one can pack extra weight in the boiler over the driving wheels improving the locos haulage capacity. 

 

The other way, not applicable in this case, was to weigh the front of the tender and have it transfer downward force, via the drawbar, onto the rear of the loco and 'lifting' the weight off the front bogie.

 

It's nice and sunny outside, so I suspect I will be splitting my time between the garden and the railway.

 

The postie has just delivered the stuff I was waiting for:  Unfortunately it's for the garden, so that's where I'll be starting!

 

Chin up HH its a glorious day, remember to apply the sun tan cream to the hide prior to outside operations as you don't want to get burnt do we.

[Happy Hippo]

I always try to see the best in people, but I'm afraid that I have come to the conclusion that there are some very stupid slightly ignorant people who frequent other parts of RMWeb

[Happy Hippo]

I've just been chatting to Dave Hunt, who passes on his best wishes to you all.

 

He is busy building fences (all 26 feet of them) on his model railway so is probably going a bit cross eyed!

 

Sadly, most of his spare time is being taken up trying to sort out his father who ended up in hospital again after a bout of Covid.  It's severely effected his mobility and is currently in hospital at Ludlow! 

 

Whitchurch, which would be a more convenient location, is only dealing with Covid patients at present, so Dave and Jill have to take in a round trip of nearly 100 miles every time they visit.

[Tony_S]

42 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

busy building fences (all 26 feet of them)

I am cheating, I need about 12 feet of stone walls but have been using plastic embossed sheet glued to cork. Before Aditi’s brother got married he used to build and restore dry stone walls for conservation projects. It was something he did after becoming too old for Scouts I think. I wasn’t going to build my 1/76 scale walls from individual stones I suspect some people do though but unlike the real walls would I suspect need some glue.

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I always try to see the best in people, but I'm afraid that I have come to the conclusion that there are some very stupid slightly ignorant people who frequent other parts of RMWeb

It can be very frustrating when someone insists that their belief/opinion however incorrect is correct. It gets worse when they get offended if helped/corrected. 
Although I have liked trains for most of my life I remain very ignorant about many train related things. So occasionally I may ask for help/guidance. I do usually try to mention what research I have done as it shows I have tried. Now in somewhere like this thread or Early Risers the result is that someone will reply helpfully.On other  threads I hate it when someone belittles my lack of knowledge. 
In the past there were some quite unpleasant people posting on RMWeb but I think management has removed or moderated them. 

[J. S. Bach]

6 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

A motor in the tender with a cardan shaft transferring the drive to the loco wheels used to be an accepted method with 4-4-0 locos, which can end up nose heavy.  (I think an Atlantic should be slightly better balanced.)  Using this method does mean one can pack extra weight in the boiler over the driving wheels improving the locos haulage capacity. 

 

The other way, not applicable in this case, was to weigh the front of the tender and have it transfer downward force, via the drawbar, onto the rear of the loco and 'lifting' the weight off the front bogie. ...snip...

Better yet, use a different type of "tender drive"; the drive is constructed just like that of a diesel and the loco just goes along for the ride. All of the tender's weight is on the driving axles; btw, during testing, the lone tender running around the layout* will certainly attract some attention.

 

* EDIT: Especially if it is pulling a train!

 

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by J. S. Bach
To add some information.

[polybear]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I've just been chatting to Dave Hunt, who passes on his best wishes to you all.

 

He is busy building fences (all 26 feet of them).....

 

They'll need to be higher than that to keep Bear out.....

 

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

.....on his model railway ......

 

Ooops....missed that bit....

 

26 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

It can be very frustrating when someone insists that their belief/opinion however incorrect is correct. It gets worse when they get offended if helped/corrected. 
Although I have liked trains for most of my life I remain very ignorant about many train related things. So occasionally I may ask for help/guidance. I do usually try to mention what research I have done as it shows I have tried. Now in somewhere like this thread or Early Risers the result is that someone will reply helpfully.On other  threads I hate it when someone belittles my lack of knowledge. 
In the past there were some quite unpleasant people posting on RMWeb but I think management has removed or moderated them. 

 

Bear gets quite amused when some know-it-all tries to take on Martin Wynne (Templot) regarding all things track-related.  They lose every time....