The Night Mail

[Dave Hunt]

A major snag with Shropshire council is contacting them. Their web site gives email contact details of the various departments but before using them you have to register; unfortunately the system doesn't recognise either btinternet or gmail addresses and advises you to contact your provider to rectify the issue (!?). Well, why not write to them? Good idea if you can find a postal address as there isn't one on the web site - just email addresses - see previous sentence. I had to ring them and wait twenty minutes for someone to answer and provide it. And yes, I have reported this before. Response to my reporting it? Zero, zilch, zip, nothing. Let's hear it for our caring public body.

 

Rant? Certainly!

 

Dave

[PhilJ W]

3 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

A major snag with Shropshire council is contacting them. Their web site gives email contact details of the various departments but before using them you have to register; unfortunately the system doesn't recognise either btinternet or gmail addresses and advises you to contact your provider to rectify the issue (!?). Well, why not write to them? Good idea if you can find a postal address as there isn't one on the web site - just email addresses - see previous sentence. I had to ring them and wait twenty minutes for someone to answer and provide it. And yes, I have reported this before. Response to my reporting it? Zero, zilch, zip, nothing. Let's hear it for our caring public body.

 

Rant? Certainly!

 

Dave

You haven't had to deal with Essex CC then?

[DaveF]

The comments on councils make Northumberland look very good.

 

On the website home page it gives a general contact number (normal office hours only - in emergency if you ring it you get through to Fire and Rescue.)- from experience they are fairly good at answering, they can usually put me through to the right person, or they will send them an email if no one answers.  Most departments will also give you their direct number if it is an ongong issue, some social services staff even give out work mobile numbers.  There is also a separate contact number for adult social services.

 

There is also a general e mail address for enquiries and a postal address.

 

It also gives details of the nine customer service centres where you just turn up with problems etc., though the times are shorter - my local one is open 09.30 till 14.30.

 

You can pay for things using an account with them, at pay points or over the phone.

 

The website also bits you can click on to report missed bins, potholes, street lights and so on. 

 

David

[Tony_S]

37 minutes ago, DaveF said:

The comments on councils make Northumberland look very good.

Our District Council is rather good. Unfortunately things like roads, streetlights and pavements are the responsibility of our County Council. They do have what seems like a good system for reporting problems but then everything goes incommunicado! The only way to get any further response is by raising a complaint. Then all you get are answers clearly drawn from some sort of script. Even my elected county councillor got the same treatment. 

[Happy Hippo]

13 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

My previous post was due to getting into a tangle trying to edit and ending up with a blank page. What I meant to write was that I have just had lotsa fun (?!) trying to renew my senior railcard. When I tried to log in the system wouldn't recognise my email address so I gave in and set about starting from scratch to set up an account. I was a bit nonplussed when it then said that an account was already registered with that email address. I therefore tried logging in but guess what? It didn't recognise the password so I clicked on 'forgot my password' whereupon it asked for my email address. That resulted in it saying that there was no account registered with that email address.😡 Eventually I tried registering for a new railcard rather than trying renewal and it worked, even though the email address was, unsurprisingly, the same as before!! Sometimes I despair of whichever clown designed these systems. Or is 'designed' the wrong word?

 

Dave 

I opted to get a Veterans railcard as when we travel by rail invariably we either travel together or I travel on my own.  Nyda never travels by train as a singleton.

 

The Veterans railcard allows you to add a named and photographed person to your card so they can travel at the same reduced rate without needing a card of their own. (This saves the cost of another individual railcard)

 

It's a pity they don't have a scheme for retired Air Farce personnel, allowing them to travel at 1/3 off scheduled flight fares.  Now that would be good!

[Tony_S]

4 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

they can travel at the same reduced rate

I had an interesting “reduced” fare this morning. Last night I checked  what the fare would be from Benfleet to Whitechapel and the only fare that appeared was an off peak travelcard. When I bought my ticket this morning, it was a considerably cheaper return to Zones 2 To 6. 

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, Dave Hunt said:

A major snag with Shropshire council is contacting them. Their web site gives email contact details of the various departments but before using them you have to register; unfortunately the system doesn't recognise either btinternet or gmail addresses and advises you to contact your provider to rectify the issue (!?). Well, why not write to them? Good idea if you can find a postal address as there isn't one on the web site - just email addresses - see previous sentence. I had to ring them and wait twenty minutes for someone to answer and provide it. And yes, I have reported this before. Response to my reporting it? Zero, zilch, zip, nothing. Let's hear it for our caring public body.

 

Rant? Certainly!

 

Dave

Here everyone just hits the mayor up on facebook, he's pretty responsive.

 

https://www.facebook.com/CrMattGould

Edited August 17, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[Happy Hippo]

36 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Here everyone just hits the mayor....

If only.....

[Dave Hunt]

2 hours ago, DaveF said:

The comments on councils make Northumberland look very good......

 

.......It also gives details of the nine customer service centres where you just turn up with problems etc., though the times are shorter - my local one is open 09.30 till 14.30.

 

North Shropshire used to have customer service centres too that also had registrars in attendance a couple of times a week.

These were closed some years ago - doubtless to improve the service.

 

Dave

[Dave Hunt]

Actually our mayor is quite a good bloke and does his best but when up against Shire Hall I don't think that the King would get anything meaningful from them.

 

Dave

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

Here everyone just hits the mayor up on facebook, he's pretty responsive.

 

https://www.facebook.com/CrMattGould

We just ring Cristelle and get an immediate answer or go to the Marie to see her the twice a week it's open. 

 

Jamie

[DenysW]

21 hours ago, Hroth said:

It DID begin life as a sports college....

Nope. It began life as aa post-WW1 training site for engineering, then became a College of Advanced Technology that was changed to a University in the late 1960s. The Teacher Training Colleges were not included (especially including the jocks), and were later forced to merge in the late 1970s. All except the design college that was unwilling to accept the perceived/actual academic downgrade and stayed independent.

[Dave Hunt]

25 minutes ago, DenysW said:

Nope. It began life as aa post-WW1 training site for engineering, then became a College of Advanced Technology that was changed to a University in the late 1960s. The Teacher Training Colleges were not included (especially including the jocks), and were later forced to merge in the late 1970s. All except the design college that was unwilling to accept the perceived/actual academic downgrade and stayed independent.

 

A good friend of mine was kicked out of Loughborough in about 1981 for being found in the same room as some waccy baccy. He did his own studying of computer science, started a software company with two friends, sold his share after it had become very successful, with MoD among others as customers, was head hunted by a company in California and became a millionaire. Being punished by Loughborough unreasonably really hurt him.

 

Dave 

[iL Dottore]

I think that in many British councils there is still the (bad) old Nationalized Industry attitude: customers are an inconvenience and it's best to ignore them, they'll eventually go away and besides council employees are essentially "bomb proof" and whether they provide good, bad, or indifferent service it makes no difference to them - so why not take the easy way out.

 

This may be a tired cliché, but I have first hand experience of this attitude: After finishing my graduate studies in the US, I returned to the UK - staying with my Grandmother - whilst looking for a permanent position, in order to earn some spending money I did some non-clinical temporary work at BT before it was privatised. My US-learnt "can-do" enthusiasm and willingness to work to the job and not the clock did not win me any friends. On more than one occasion I was "told-off" for being willing to work late to sort out a customer problem, something that not only was alien to their mindset but also total anathema for them.

 

Interestingly, shortly before my (very) short-term summer job ended, one or two of my erstwhile colleagues confided in me that they wanted to provide customers better service, but felt huge peer pressure to "not rock the boat". I wonder how many people in public service entered wanting to do a top-notch job, but are so rapidly ground-down by the "company culture" that it's not long before they too don't give a *******?

 

The above is, of course, anecdotal and about a small department in a very large organisation, So (as a Scientist) I would be very hesitant to draw any specific conclusions from that, but it's certainly illuminative, definitely illuminative.....

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by iL Dottore

[Willie Whizz]

My experience of a 13-year "second career" in Local Government is that there are indeed in there a number of "Jobsworths"; and a certain number of people who positively loathe "The Council and All Its Works" (which begs the question of why they continue their employment there, but that's another story ...).

 

However there are also rather a lot of good people who do genuinely try hard to deliver a good service, but find that the systems and working practices they have to operate and adhere to simply won't let them; and suggestions for change are often unwelcome or unaffordable.

 

It doesn't help that there are few roles where being good at the job gets you any kind of improvement in your pay and conditions.  Conversely, as has been said, unless they do something grossly inappropriate or dishonest, getting rid of under-performers is a positive minefield.  And the common systemic inability to carry-forward any budget savings or temporary underspends into your Team's funding for the following year is ultimately wasteful, because you come under pressure to spend it all on something else - anything else! - because not only can't you carry it forward, but if you have money "left over" this year you clearly don't need as much in your Service's Budget next year and it can be cut, so there's a "double whammy".  My own Service used to wait until February/March when the out-turn at the end of the Financial Year was reasonably predictable before ordering any new IT kit, no matter how badly it was needed - and then there was usually a spree.  And have you ever wondered why so many road repairs get done in the very early Spring?

Edited August 17, 2023 by Willie Whizz
Clarity

[Happy Hippo]

52 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

I think that in many British councils there is still the (bad) old Nationalized Industry attitude: customers are an inconvenience and it's best to ignore them, they'll eventually go away and besides council employees are essentially "bomb proof" and whether they provide good, bad, or indifferent service it makes no difference to them - so why not take the easy way out.

 

This attitude is so well illustrated in the film 'Living' starring Bill Nighy.

 

It is one of those films that is well written and acted, but fails because it does not conform to the Hollywood 'Glitz Wrapped Dung' productions.

 

Another lovely film is 'This Beautiful Fantastic' which is really a modern day fairy tale.

[MrWolf]

10 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Legendary:

 

 

 

Such tech teachers have long since realised that (a) there's much more money to be made working in Industry** now that decent techs. are starting to get thin on the ground, and (b) spending your life trying to teach many (not all) of the kids appearing in College Workshops will rapidly make you lose the will to live - or sent down for murder.

 

(Incidentally, (b) above comes from two Tech. Teachers I know).

 

(**Try recruiting a Welding Teacher, for example)

 

Indeed and most are now retired. A good friend and mentor of mine was a woodwork teacher. He was made redundant in the early nineties at the introduction of the national curriculum and immediately taken on as a supply teacher at nearly twice the money and a good deal less pencil pushing. You really couldn't make it up.

 

I didn't have too much trouble with the pupils, I was told not to bring my classic car to work as it "attracted too much attention".

So the alternative was my (even older!) motorcycle. That got the junior rumour mill going that I was a Hell's Angel* ex Para** and had been convicted of GBH***.

So I had very few discipline problems.

 

I was warned that I would come across one particular female pupil, who would be disruptive and I would end up having to tell her to behave. This would immediately result in her complaining about inappropriate behaviour on my part and her mother turning up to demand an investigation. One of the other teachers was already going through this, although it was known to be malicious, as procedures had to be followed.

 

* I think that the Vintage Motor Cycle Club might have had a strong opinion about that.

** Royal Engineers, actually old chap.

*** My CRB check said not, but it could have been useful.

 

 

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

besides council employees are essentially "bomb proof"

Not really nowadays. Lots of jobs “outsourced” so,while it may be really irritating for those of trying to get something done the person attempting to answer us is probably on a contract nothing like the ones of yesteryear. 

[woodenhead]

1 minute ago, Tony_S said:

Not really nowadays. Lots of jobs “outsourced” so,while it may be really irritating for those of trying to get something done the person attempting to answer us is probably on a contract nothing like the ones of yesteryear. 

You'd be surprised that a lot of councils insourced the work back later, some still do use outsourcers but a lot have set up their own organisations or taken them completely back.  There are still elements that it makes sense to outsource but a lot is now back under council control.

[SM42]

Mrs SM42 has announced the girls are coming tomorrow so I've got to cut the lawn tonight. 

 

Hardly time for dinner

 

Andy

[SM42]

The lawn has been cut and as a reward I was presented with a bowl of Eton mess. 

 

Yay!

 

Andy

[Darlington_Shed]

Well, today a miracle happened - I found some mojo at the back of the shed and the sheet material for the baseboard has been cut to appropriate sizes. If there's any mojo left, tomorrow might well see some gluing and construction.

[Mike Bellamy]

9 hours ago, Tony_S said:

Aditi had a fairly senior role in her department at college. When the Head of Dept was off on sick leave,  instead of making Aditi acting head they brought someone in from an agency. Instead of keeping everything running she implemented a lot of changes. Basically so she could put “implemented and managed radical change” on her CV. When the head of dept returned he and Aditi had to put everything back. The temporary manager had never understood why the department did certain things the way they did. 

 

After redundancy from Lloyds 25 years ago, I had a temporary job through an agency working for a local firm manufacturing gas boilers. I was answering the phones to irate plumbers merchants and installers asking where their deliveries were. It was explained that the dispatch manager was off with long term sickness and they had a guy in from an agency who hadn't a clue what he was doing and soon left through stress. Deliveries were contracted out to an independent haulage firm and the solution was to get one of the lorry drivers in the office for a few days as he knew which depots had their own fork lift or were down a narrow street - turns out the other guy was getting half his lorries sent back as they couldn't unload or were unable to access the site. I had taken four phone calls from depots around the Manchester area and went to see him - he said we'll load it all on the night shift and they'll get everything they want in the morning - and they did.

 

Next problem then was that production couldn't keep up with dispatch and the warehouse was running out of stock - what's the point of supplying boilers without the flue pipes. I then got another proper job and left the chaos behind me.

 

 

7 hours ago, Tony_S said:

Our District Council is rather good. Unfortunately things like roads, streetlights and pavements are the responsibility of our County Council. They do have what seems like a good system for reporting problems but then everything goes incommunicado! The only way to get any further response is by raising a complaint. Then all you get are answers clearly drawn from some sort of script. Even my elected county councillor got the same treatment. 

 

I emailed the Parish Council about some overhanging trees at the end of our road - normally District or County responsibility but I had seen a copy of the Parish Council minutes on a notice board outside the village hall saying that they had responsibility for maintenance of the playing field - which was where the trees were. Email back next day from Chair of Council and later that day the groundsman was there cutting back the overgrown branches. Result.

.

[Northmoor]

11 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

After redundancy from Lloyds 25 years ago, I had a temporary job through an agency working for a local firm manufacturing gas boilers. I was answering the phones to irate plumbers merchants and installers asking where their deliveries were. It was explained that the dispatch manager was off with long term sickness and they had a guy in from an agency who hadn't a clue what he was doing and soon left through stress. Deliveries were contracted out to an independent haulage firm and the solution was to get one of the lorry drivers in the office for a few days as he knew which depots had their own fork lift or were down a narrow street - turns out the other guy was getting half his lorries sent back as they couldn't unload or were unable to access the site. I had taken four phone calls from depots around the Manchester area and went to see him - he said we'll load it all on the night shift and they'll get everything they want in the morning - and they did.

 

Next problem then was that production couldn't keep up with dispatch and the warehouse was running out of stock - what's the point of supplying boilers without the flue pipes. I then got another proper job and left the chaos behind me.

That would be the "efficient" private sector!  Having worked roughly 50:50 in public and private sectors, I don't see much difference in terms of efficiency, the private sector just calls waste something different; a colleague once couldn't get another to accept that "internal projects" which were funded by the business, were an overhead just like any other.  This guy was insistent that despite not earning one penny from outside the business, he was of more value than the "admin people" who he considered overheads (except they were actually useful and paid about a third of his salary).

 

People who run their own businesses rarely tire of telling everyone how hard they work (and most really do).  Many seem to be forever blaming national/local government, "red tape" etc. - basically everyone else - for making their lives more difficult.  However, here's two examples of behaviour by two businesses local to me which suggest they would be more successful if they weren't run by the clinically thick:

• I booked a table at a pub for lunch with former colleagues about three weeks in advance.  I arrived on the day to find it mid-way through re-building, which you have to assume, they had at least known about three weeks earlier?
• My wife wanted to book a couple of lanes at the bowling alley (which is in the local golf clubhouse), for a group of primary school children.  Sorry, we're shut that week, came the reply.  So what week did a bowling alley choose to shut for maintenance?  That's right; half-term.

[Dave Hunt]

4 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I was warned that I would come across one particular female pupil, who would be disruptive and I would end up having to tell her to behave. This would immediately result in her complaining about inappropriate behaviour on my part and her mother turning up to demand an investigation. One of the other teachers was already going through this, although it was known to be malicious, as procedures had to be followed.

 

A friend of mine was teaching a class of 15 year olds when one of them started arguing with him and came out threatening to punch him. He made a lunge at my friend who put out a hand to keep him away and contacted him on the chest. On the basis that he had 'struck' the boy, whose scrote-like parents formally complained, he was suspended for weeks until eventually some of the other pupils told the truth and he was reinstated. He said that had none of the other pupils come forward he would probably have been dismissed or worse and as a result took early retirement as soon as he could. 

 

Dave