The Night Mail

[SM42]

HH is now appearing as crossword puzzles answers in a left wing paper. 

 

It all a conspiracy I tell you. 

 

Andy

[jjb1970]

These days when I watch TV or movies it is mainly Korean, Chinese or Japanese stuff. That's largely because Netflix is dominated by Asian content here (who'd have thought it eh?) but I  now much prefer it. Korean productions especially tend to have extremely high production values and some of the story telling makes British and American content look mediocre. Some of the crime dramas are very smartly developed and keep you thinking right to the end, they don't spoon feed viewers. Now when I  visit Europe or the US I really miss Asian stuff if I log onto a streaming service. 

 

That said, I did love the Prime productions of Bosch and Reacher. 

[jjb1970]

Something quite revealing about Asian TV and movies is what it reveals about attitudes to Japan. If you watch Korean, Chinese and SE Asian content you soon pick up a lot of very negative tropes about Japan, and a lot of the historic dramas set in the 1930's and 40's present an almost cartoonish image of the villainous Japanese. When picked up in the Western media it's generally presented as Chinese grudge bearing and not letting the past die, but I find that if anything Korean attitudes to Japan are more negative and run deeper than those in Japan (probably because of the longer history of enmity between the two) and you don't have to poke very far in SE Asia to find a lingering suspicion and fear of Japan. In SE Asia they don't miss their European colonial masters but I do think they moved on after decolonialization, with Japan things are different (it might be partly because the Europeans cleared off and left whereas Japan is a regional power in Asia so has a more enduring influence). I find in Indonesia that if the Dutch are mentioned the comments are negative but they're rarely mentioned and I think the Dutch era is largley forgotten or ignored, however the subject of Japan can very quickly uncover some pretty powerful emotions.

[J. S. Bach]

I do not watch OTA tv; I have a 52 inch flat screen that has abut a half hour tv time on it. I bought it for two porpoises purposes; one as a computer monitor and the other to watch my laserdiscs.

Edited May 3 by J. S. Bach
To correct a typo

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[iL Dottore]

11 hours ago, Northmoor said:

"Viewers should be aware that the following programme will be Sh1te"

Well that applies to most of the stuff that’s ever been transmitted over the airwaves.

 

Last of The Summer Wine was indeed variable, but at its best quietly enjoyable and a positive depiction of older men. For me the best episodes were those featuring the programme’s second ensemble trio of Bill Owen as Compo, Peter Sallis as Cleggy and Brian Wilde as "Foggy" Dewhurst. Part of this appeal being that, at that time in the early 80s (I was back in the UK by then), I was one of a trio of tight-knit chums and one of us was definitely a Compo, one was definitely a Cleggy and one was definitely a Foggy (me, if I’m being candid). And to add richness to the mix, “our” Compo even had his very own “Nora Batty”.
 

But it is damn near impossible to continuously write great scripts for each and every episode of a long running series*: people run out of ideas, scriptwriters change, it gets harder and harder to come up with fresh takes on things and so on. John Cleese did exactly the right thing with Fawlty Towers limiting it to just 12 utterly perfect episodes.

 

* as someone who has dabbled in (semi-) professional acting a popular long running series is a great gig to get - a steady income from continuous filming (plus residuals) and the reassurance of forthcoming work - not to be sneezed at in the highly precarious world of TV, stage and screen.

Edited May 3 by iL Dottore
tidied up crap audio transcription

[jamie92208]

Last of the Summer Wine was based of course in Holmfirth, where I was Sgt for 3 months in 1994.  A great place to work and filming provided a good income for the PC's.  The writer had been a police officer in the area in the 60's.  He also wrote a brilliant series about a rookie constable in the mini g districts of south/West Yorkshire, that was The Growing Pains of PC Penrose.  It was required viewing and could easily have been based on my first station at Rothwell. It later moved to Scarborough as Rosie, but wasn't quite the same.  

 

Jamie

Edited May 3 by jamie92208

[iL Dottore]

One of the problems bedevilling modern programmes is the curse of “diversity and inclusivity” which has programme makers saying “we need one of these, two of those and three of the other and we’ll be properly inclusive”. In other words hiring to meet quotas, rather than according to the needs of the story and the characters in that story. Unfortunately, the push for D&I has resulted in an awful number of poor casting decisions - causing the cynical to wonder if casting was nothing but a tick box exercise.

 

To make up a silly example: the Beeb announces a new comedy drama “Black and White” about a pair of oddball coppers: DCI Black (played by @Happy Hippo) and DS White (played by @polybear). In the 70s and 80s you would have simply concluded that PB and HH were the best ones to hire for those roles. Nowadays? You end up asking did they cast HH and PB because they were right for the roles or because someone, somewhere, said “hold on, there aren’t enough hippos and bears in our cop dramas”?

 

Just as bad, in my view, is when the film/programme is supposedly - say - a cop buddy-buddy “bromance” and instead of hiring a Polybear to play DS White, hire a Polina Bear (which sort of destroys the whole premise of a cop buddy-buddy “bromance”).

 

And such hiring does the actors no favours either, causing the cynical to wonder whether or not PB was hired to play DS White because he was the best actor for the job or because they didn’t have enough bears in the production.

NB: “Bromance” a type of drama in which there is a very close and non-sexual relationship between two men. It is an exceptionally tight, affectional,  male bonding relationship exceeding that of usual friendship, in a bromance, a charachter would rather die than betray his buddy…

[polybear]

2 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

To make up a silly example: the Beeb announces a new comedy drama “Black and White” about a pair of oddball coppers: DCI Black (played by @Happy Hippo) and DS White (played by @polybear). In the 70s and 80s you would have simply concluded that PB and HH were the best ones to hire for those roles. Nowadays? You end up asking did they cast HH and PB because they were right for the roles or because someone, somewhere, said “hold on, there aren’t enough hippos and bears in our cop dramas”?

 

 

Is iD suggesting that Bear and Big H aren't up to the job?  We're hurt.

[iL Dottore]

Just now, polybear said:

 

Is iD suggesting that Bear and Big H aren't up to the job?  We're hurt.

You kinda miss the point, Bear.

 

Before all this D&I reared its ugly head, the casting of HH and PB would have been viewed as simply getting the best bear (or hippo) for the job. Nowadays, the cynical amongst us would wonder if PB and HH were the best actors for the job or were they hired for being a bear (or hippo) first and a decent actor second (in some cases a very distant second).

 

Recent casting decisions in many BBC and ITV programmes support the latter conclusion.

[Craigw]

5 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Something quite revealing about Asian TV and movies is what it reveals about attitudes to Japan. If you watch Korean, Chinese and SE Asian content you soon pick up a lot of very negative tropes about Japan, and a lot of the historic dramas set in the 1930's and 40's present an almost cartoonish image of the villainous Japanese. When picked up in the Western media it's generally presented as Chinese grudge bearing and not letting the past die, but I find that if anything Korean attitudes to Japan are more negative and run deeper than those in Japan (probably because of the longer history of enmity between the two) and you don't have to poke very far in SE Asia to find a lingering suspicion and fear of Japan. In SE Asia they don't miss their European colonial masters but I do think they moved on after decolonialization, with Japan things are different (it might be partly because the Europeans cleared off and left whereas Japan is a regional power in Asia so has a more enduring influence). I find in Indonesia that if the Dutch are mentioned the comments are negative but they're rarely mentioned and I think the Dutch era is largley forgotten or ignored, however the subject of Japan can very quickly uncover some pretty powerful emotions.

 

The events around WW2, particularly the so called "comfort women" and the Japanese attitude to such things still causes a great deal of animosity. I also tend to watch a lot of the Asian shows on Netflix (Aussie here) and must admit to enjoying quite a few Korean series as well as movies. If any of you are into zombie movies, I would highly recommend "Train to Busan".

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

Is iD suggesting that Bear and Big H aren't up to the job?  We're hurt.

Not in the slightest.

 

Just see us as modelled as a combination of Gene Hunt and Jack Regan.  However, I'd more than likely have the build of Charlie Barlow

[Oldddudders]

9 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Not in the slightest.

 

Just see us as modelled as a combination of Gene Hunt and Jack Regan.  However, I'd more than likely have the build of Charlie Barlow

I think you may have rather more hair left.....

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

You kinda miss the point, Bear.

 

Before all this D&I reared its ugly head, the casting of HH and PB would have been viewed as simply getting the best bear (or hippo) for the job. Nowadays, the cynical amongst us would wonder if PB and HH were the best actors for the job or were they hired for being a bear (or hippo) first and a decent actor second (in some cases a very distant second).

 

Recent casting decisions in many BBC and ITV programmes support the latter conclusion.

What on earth makes you think "before the days of D&I", casting always picked the right actor for the job?  It's pretty dodgy to suggest that when casts were all White-British, everyone was there on merit but once they have become more ethnically diverse, there must be "quotas"?  The entertainment industry has long been dominated by "Who you know" behaviours, so just perhaps occasionally someone unknown was allowed through the door and not just to get the "right" people their coffee?

[Winslow Boy]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Last of the Summer Wine was based of course in Holmfirth, where I was Sgt for 3 months in 1994.  A great place to work and filming provided a good income for the PC's.  The writer had been a police officer in the area in the 60's.  He also wrote a brilliant series about a rookie constable in the mini g districts of south/West Yorkshire, that was The Growing Pains of PC Penrose.  It was required viewing and could easily have been based on my first station at Rothwell. It later moved to Scarborough as Rosie, but wasn't quite the same.  

 

Jamie

So a bit like watching Coronation Street years ago so that you can find out what it was like up north then. Got to go as whippet needs a walk. Now where did I leave my flat cap.

[jjb1970]

Speaking as the token white diversity hire in our office I fully support D&I quotas💪🤪 

[jjb1970]

I am enjoying the new adaptation of Shogun, very well done and a good TV adaptation of a wonderful book. I do still prefer the older Richard Chamberlain version on balance but the latest one is extremely good and well worth watching.

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

I think you may have rather more hair left.....

Probably🤣

 

I've already being trying to think up a couple of catch phrases, perhaps like Jack Lord had in the original Hawaii 5-0 TV series.

 

'Book 'em Danno' he used to say.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of:

 

'Kill 'em Bear!'

[Dave Hunt]

I fully agree with the sentiments expressed about the dire standard of recent comedy programmes on TV (grumpy old dinosaur - me? My models are driven by this new-fangled electricity I’ll have you know) but two of those from the 90s and noughties that Jill and I have been watching and are enjoying on streamed services (told you I’m not really a dinosaur) are Gavin & Stacey and Friends. However, we’ve also been dipping into such as Only Fools & Horses. I also agree that Last of the Summer Wine was at its best with Compo, Clegg and Foggy in the episodes before lots of extra characters started appearing, although a few such as the Battys and Syd the cafe owner did add to the enjoyment. The later series after Brian Wilde left for the second time went rapidly downhill and trying to keep it going after Bill Owen died was disastrous.

 

Dave

 

 

Edited May 3 by Dave Hunt

[Dave Hunt]

16 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Probably🤣

 

I've already being trying to think up a couple of catch phrases, perhaps like Jack Lord had in the original Hawaii 5-0 TV series.

 

'Book 'em Danno' he used to say.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of:

 

'Kill 'em Bear!'

What about, “Fetch the cake, Bear.”

 

Dave

[jjb1970]

On Korea and Japan,  there's a nice sequence in the new 'Shogun' where Toranaga and the Taiko are talking as the Taiko is near death where they talk about what they could have done if they'd conquered Joseon. I suspect a lot of viewers will miss the reference that Joseon is Korea. Korean TV and movies of Japanese efforts to conquer them can be pretty savage in how the Japanese are portrayed. 

[Willie Whizz]

Back in the 60s and 70s it was often the case that it wasn’t just “the best actor for the job”, but that X was “the only actor for [that sort of] job”. 
 

You want an oily-looking, smarmy-sounding gent of vaguely Levantine appearance?  You need Steve Plytas!  You want an Eastern European, rather sinister looking, Putin before Putin type?  You want Vladek Sheybal!  A cynical, coldly calculating Nazi? Anton Diffring is your man!

 

A look at the cast lists of many of the series dramas of the day will see these guys appearing time after time. 

 

 

Edited May 3 by Willie Whizz

[Winslow Boy]

39 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Probably🤣

 

I've already being trying to think up a couple of catch phrases, perhaps like Jack Lord had in the original Hawaii 5-0 TV series.

 

'Book 'em Danno' he used to say.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of:

 

'Kill 'em Bear!'

And I suppose Bears response would be - watch those tips Hippo.

[Winslow Boy]

14 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

Back in the 60s and 70s it was often the case that it wasn’t just “the best actor for the job”, but that X was “the only actor for [that sort of] job. 
 

You want an oily-looking, smarmy-sounding gent of vaguely Levantine appearance?  You need Steve Plytas!  You want an Eastern European, rather sinister looking, Putin before Putin type?  You want Vladek Sheybal!  A cynical, coldly calculating Nazi? Anton Diffring is your man!

 

A look at the cast lists of many of the series dramas of the day will see these guys appearing time after time. 

 

 

Probably because they all went to the same school Rada anyone.

[polybear]

41 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Probably🤣

 

I've already being trying to think up a couple of catch phrases, perhaps like Jack Lord had in the original Hawaii 5-0 TV series.

 

'Book 'em Danno' he used to say.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of:

 

'Kill 'em Bear!'

 

Beary response:

 

"Slowly or quickly?"

 

20 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Korean TV and movies of Japanese efforts to conquer them can be pretty savage in how the Japanese are portrayed. 

 

Can't imagine why.....oh, hang on, yes I can.....