The Night Mail

[Dave Hunt]

The cassettes on both Bob Essery's and Pete Kibble's layouts that I worked on at exhibitions were made from melamine faced half inch or so MDF with half inch by half inch aluminium angle rails and plywood sides. Plywood end pieces slotted in to the sides to contain stock when lifting cassettes. The ends of the layout boards had short matching pieces of aluminium angle and electrical contact was via pieces of U channel brass about 3 inches long that simply slotted over the vertical edges of the angle pieces when a cassette was in place (I think that the brass came from Eileen's) and when not in use lived in small plywood boxes on the fiddle yards. There were push buttons on the ends of the layout boards associated with each track that powered the last few inches of track on the layout boards and thus the cassettes connected to them so nothing could run onto or out of the fiddle yard without deliberate co-operation from the fiddle yard operator. Surface of the fiddle yards was just bare plywood but with the melamine facing the cassettes slid across it easily enough. There were both long and short cassettes so that locomotives and trains could be dealt with independently. The system was simple to operate and worked satisfactorily during many exhibitions. 

 

Dave

Edited December 18, 2020 by Dave Hunt

[Compound2632]

As far as I'm aware, cassettes using ½" x ½" aluminium angle were introduced to the world - or maybe just to me? - by Chris Pendleton in MRJ, with his North Shields layout. His cassettes used the aluminium angle as the running rail and as a wall to protect the stock. Assuming the angle is ¹⁄₁₆" thick, the clearances between the inside faces are:

• P4 - 10'3"
• EM - 10'1"
• 00 - 9'8"
• S7 - 7'10"
• 0 - 7'8"

That's getting a bit tight in 00. What do you do in 7 mm scale? Use the angle outside up?

[Northroader]

You’re right, Stephen, it was the Chris Pendleton article that set the ball rolling on cassettes. I’ve done them in 0, but the problem is that there insufficient width from the rail flangeway to the outer face of the rolling stock using 1/2” angle, so you have to upsize to 1” angle, and the whole deal becomes quite expensive. The other thing which would apply in all scales is that you screw the alloy angle down firmly to a ply base, alloy will expand/ contract with temperature changes, ply won’t, and you get the cassettes going either convex or concave depending on what season of the year it is.

i have been using ordinary track spiked down to either a wood or ply strip, with alloy loop handles, and not bothering with side fences, currently I need some thinner bases, and kicking about the idea of upvc troughing of the rectangular kind. If ever I get my vaccine, I intend to pop over to the big orange shed and try out sizing and pricing.

[Happy Hippo]

All this cassette info is food for thought, although I'll not  be going down the aluminium route.

 

It seems pointless having various sheets of MDF and ply in the workshop plus all that Peco flat bottomed rail recovered from the scenic parts of SG that can be soldered up to paxoline sleepers.  It might not be arrow straight, but it is fit for purpose.

 

Looking at the diagrams of Porthywaen, it would seen that the head shunt at the 'North end' originally joined up with the through road somewhere the other side of the bridge.  although I'd prefer to operate as was done during the latter years of the branches operation, I'd agree with Jamie that the replacement of the plain track head shunt with a cassette would have benefits, it that it allows the full area of the cassette table to be used to slide stuff around on.  It would also allow loop operation should I decide to backdate the modelled period at a future date.

 

I may shift the track at that end further over to the viewing side to further increase the shuffle area.  this will also allow the through line to travel on an oblique line across the scenic boards rather than parallel to the edges..... although I'd like the exits to line up so they are parallel with the long edges of the cassette tables:  A sinuous curve may be called for.

 

I find that part of the fun of this type of layout is building up a credible back story in support of what is seen on the scenic section.

 

A short history and a track diagram of the surrounding area which is pinned to the front of one of the cassette board shields that viewers can read adds a bit of authenticity to what is a complete figment of the imagination.  It also helps viewers understand the reasons that the scenic section is worked in the way it is.

 

This is the provisional schematic diagram showing the location in regards to the real geography of the area.

 

The Minera area was a well known industrial complex.

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

57 minutes ago, Northroader said:

You’re right, Stephen, it was the Chris Pendleton article that set the ball rolling on cassettes. I’ve done them in 0, but the problem is that there insufficient width from the rail flangeway to the outer face of the rolling stock using 1/2” angle, so you have to upsize to 1” angle, and the whole deal becomes quite expensive. The other thing which would apply in all scales is that you screw the alloy angle down firmly to a ply base, alloy will expand/ contract with temperature changes, ply won’t, and you get the cassettes going either convex or concave depending on what season of the year it is.

 

Use slightly oblong slots instead of round holes for the screws to go through into the timber.  Works the same as fishplates.

[jamie92208]

As mentioned above 1" by 1/2" angle gives the necessary clearance in 0 Gauge and cuts the expense. I got my angle by going into a wholesalers called Sevice Metals who were quite willing to sell it direct to me. I did not have a gun in my hand when asking. However I got quite a lot given to me by a fabricators that was shutting down. I haven't yet got round to making end stops and sides but have thought about cutting sots in the vertical faces that would take a piecevof 3mm ply. Sides would make the current storage system for the cassettes  for transport impossible but I might do it anyway.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

18 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

As mentioned above 1" by 1/2" angle gives the necessary clearance in 0 Gauge and cuts the expense. I got my angle by going into a wholesalers called Sevice Metals who were quite willing to sell it direct to me. I did not have a gun in my hand when asking. However I got quite a lot given to me by a fabricators that was shutting down. I haven't yet got round to making end stops and sides but have thought about cutting sots in the vertical faces that would take a piecevof 3mm ply. Sides would make the current storage system for the cassettes  for transport impossible but I might do it anyway.

 

Jamie

I believe some folk actually use their cassettes as part of the stock storage system in the smaller scales, hence the high sides.

 

I don't think it's an option in 7 mm scale, my foam lined  Really Useful boxes will remain fully utilised.

 

On the incline front, if I have a point at which the line drops away to the rear and climbs at the front, I can get  a maximum of about 4-5" vertical separation.

 

A couple of Celotex ramps made up from some off cuts and perched on the dining table will allow me to work out whether such an extreme is practical.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

On the incline front, if I have a point at which the line drops away to the rear and climbs at the front, I can get  a maximum of about 4-5" vertical separation.

 

A couple of Celotex ramps made up from some off cuts and perched on the dining table will allow me to work out whether such an extreme is practical.

 

Remember to allow for the transition, with those 6-wheeled tank engines.

[Happy Hippo]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Remember to allow for the transition, with those 6-wheeled tank engines.

Transition from  six wheel pannier tank into eight wheel Sulzer power?

[bbishop]

I actually had a cassette in the  house, but my rule and vernier scale were in the garage, and on a cold, wet evening .....

 

So my aluminium is 1" x 1" and is ⅛" thick.  The cassettes are  3" wide and a mathematician can work out the aluminium slightly outlies the wood.  A pain to construct but actually helps to pick up a cassette.

 

Both the fiddle yard and cassettes are plywood, although the contact is actually mdf to plywood.  I prefer the slight drag because I can butt cassettes together without inadvertent movement.  The critical positioning is between track and cassette, which is why I use the shoe.  My big fear going to an exhibition is leaving the shoe behind.

 

Bill

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, bbishop said:

My big fear going to an exhibition is leaving the shoe behind.

 

You'd be hopping mad!

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

You'd be hopping mad!

I saw Bill’s cassettes in use at an exhibition in SE London. Very interesting to observe.

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, bbishop said:

My big fear going to an exhibition is leaving the shoe behind.

 

Bill

This might sound daft but if you were to use a shoe lace to tie the shoe to the board, it would always be attached.

 

A bespoke pocket to slot the shoe into would be the refining touch

Edited December 18, 2020 by Happy Hippo

[tomparryharry]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

As far as I'm aware, cassettes using ½" x ½" aluminium angle were introduced to the world - or maybe just to me? - by Chris Pendleton in MRJ, with his North Shields layout. His cassettes used the aluminium angle as the running rail and as a wall to protect the stock. Assuming the angle is ¹⁄₁₆" thick, the clearances between the inside faces are:

• P4 - 10'3"
• EM - 10'1"
• 00 - 9'8"
• S7 - 7'10"
• 0 - 7'8"

That's getting a bit tight in 00. What do you do in 7 mm scale? Use the angle outside up?

Sounds about right, Steve. If you require a deeper flange vis-a-vis  the aluminium angle, then a packing portion underneath the angle to raise it up is a dodge workaround. I'd suggest an aluminium extrusion which is 25x 15mm, with a wall of 2-3mm. My choice is purely based on you fellows working in a larger scale than my 'tiddlers'.  

 

Cheers,

Ian.

 

Edit:- Jamie has already posted in a similar vein. Sorry!

Edited December 18, 2020 by tomparryharry
Missed the post!

[Happy Hippo]

Ian, 

 

There are no fines or censures for duplications or coming in second in this thread.

 

How's your shed faring?

[bbishop]

Ian,  a washer does the trick.

 

Richard,  the final board is hinged, so there is 1' scenick and 6' of fiddle yard that folds into a total of 4' for transport.  So the shoe has to travel separately. 

 

Bill

 

[Happy Hippo]

Can I hold out until Christmas?

 

It's only a morsel!

[tomparryharry]

It's coming along, but slowly. Mrs Smith has 'diverted my labour' so when I finish this post, it's a spot of internal woodwork. There is a reason behind this: Brownie points. if I finish off this understairs project, that means she will have room for her personal study. In turn, I'll have some space in the garage to get the Boxford out of storage. There's an unfinished 5" Gemma in there as well.....

 

Now see what you've started!

[jamie92208]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

You'd be hopping mad!

Where oh where is that GROAN button. I will just have to restore my equilibtium with the stollen and mince pies that have just been delivered.

 

Jamie

Edited December 18, 2020 by jamie92208

[New Haven Neil]

ahem chaps - his name is PendLENton, not Pendleton.

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

This might sound daft but if you were to use a shoe lace to tie the shoe to the board, it would always be attached.

 

A bespoke pocket to slot the shoe into would be the refining touch

 

I'd think a standardised style of cassette might be a good thing.  Scale and/or gauge being immaterial.  The work process for handling a cassette would be the same, and allow conformity across the hobby. Preservation and safe use of the stock is the important thing, and operators themselves would know or learn how to use them, without the thought of  " Hang on, Jims system is X, and Doug's system is Q. I'd better not mix them up..."  Scale of course... P4 is sooo close to 00... Where's my escape route?

[TheQ]

Hang on since when was I Doug's system,

I thought I was 1:45..

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, bbishop said:

 

So my aluminium is 1" x 1" and is ⅛" thick.  The cassettes are  3" wide and a mathematician can work out the aluminium slightly outlies the wood.  A pain to construct but actually helps to pick up a cassette.

 

Bill

Might I suggest building them on a jig? Nothing complicated, just two parallel 12" lengths of the same timber as the base set apart the same width as the base with a crosspiece at either end then you only need to drop the base in to the gap. Also add a couple of guides either side to position the aluminium and then its a case of drill and screw. 

[tomparryharry]

On the first day of whatever, my true love gave to me....

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, New Haven Neil said:

ahem chaps - his name is PendLENton, not Pendleton.

I couldn't say I really knew him at all, but he was a senior manager in the BR freight business.