carlwebus Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Hi all Here is my last batch of "where are these" queries (probably). All the pictures come from a large job lot of photos bought at the local auction. I cannot pin down where they are. Photo No. 8, it has been suggested, is of a tunnel on the Churnet Valley near Leekbrook Junction (it was in a wad of Leek and Manifold pictures but is certainly not Swainsley tunnel on the L&M). Photo No.12 also came out of the L&M batch but is plainly standard gauge. Aggravatingly the cast iron sign top right is out of focus and I cannot read it! Photo No.14 is plainly a coastal location (see the ship on the horizon). Note also the wagons with NE and LMS markings. Might even be exchange sidings between narrow and standard guage. It too came out of the L&M wad - and, until I saw the ship, I assumed it to be Waterhouses! Could be any one of a number of places - unless/ until somebody recognises it! Photo No. 15 is also standard gauge and it too came out of the L&M wad. Photo 20 came from a bunch of Irish stuff. It has a date on the back which seems to be 12/4/80. Also what appears to be D/L. That's all I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2020 Gonna take a punt on Holyhead for no.14, looking out to sea at an approaching ferry from Dun Laoughaire. The ship's silhouette is not that of a cargo vessel and there are no guns so she's not a large destroyer or small cruiser, so she's a passenger ferry, and none of the other ferry ports would have open sea without a breakwater (Fishguard) or the opposite bank of an inlet (Heysham, Stranraer) in the background of the shot, so I think this is on the landward end of the breakwater at Holyhead. No.20 has a definite Welsh feel to the terraced houses, and the weather fits, so it could be Deganwy on the Llandudno branch, which has changed much in the meantime, the rock outcrop to the left now being subsumed by the earthworks for the A55 road tunnel and a marina having appeared in the left background behind the harbour wall, plus all sorts of road developments. If I'm right, the shot is taken from the area of Albert Drive. The terraced houses just don't look Irish to me... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 No 20 looks remarkably like the footbridge between Dawlish and Dawlish Warren to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, great central said: No 20 looks remarkably like the footbridge between Dawlish and Dawlish Warren to me With those houses on the horizon? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2020 37 minutes ago, great central said: No 20 looks remarkably like the footbridge between Dawlish and Dawlish Warren to me But nothing else, including the foreground, background and middle distance, is remotely similar. Apart from the sea to the left. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: With those houses on the horizon? Good point, in my somewhat dodgy, defence I'm looking at these on my phone and I've never seen the line from the landward side. Coastal erosion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, melmoth said: But nothing else, including the foreground, background and middle distance, is remotely similar. Apart from the sea to the left. Well there's a couple then 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 8, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 8, 2020 No terraced houses up the hill at Dawlish or Warren. It could still be an Irish location... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 20 certainly not Deganwy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Clanger Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 No.20 is just west of Dun Laoghaire, here: 53.296100, -6.156660. I don't know the area, but the D/L mentioned on the print and what looks vaguely like a ferry near the LH edge were enough to persuade me to have a look on the internet. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted July 8, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Major Clanger said: No.20 is just west of Dun Laoghaire, here: 53.296100, -6.156660. I don't know the area, but the D/L mentioned on the print and what looks vaguely like a ferry near the LH edge were enough to persuade me to have a look on the internet. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2966039,-6.15897,3a,17.9y,102.98h,88.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sovbsS4B81f-TV2lYaOZaGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Tried my best CSI: South Yorkshire Photoshop enhancement techniques on the cast iron sign in no.12, but nothing really. Line of small text, line of bigger text, centred probably, lots of lines of small text. If it's taken from the front of a DMU, is that a weird shadow being cast on the track, or something inside the cab? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD85 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) Regarding no.14, I think that's an engine shed under construction on the right of the photograph. Certainly something with a north light roof, anyway. There also appears to be a water column in the photo, and in the background there appears to be a track climbing on an inclined plane. EDIT: Pretty sure it's Dover shed, looking south towards the Channel, and taken in the late 1920s during the shed's construction. The water column has the wheel positioned high up on it, and looking at one of the columns at Dover shows a wheel in the same place. The track on the incline is where the wagons go up to the coal stage. Interesting that the wagons in the picture are marked LNER and LMS though. EDIT 2: Map of Dover shed. The area of the photograph is circled and the arrow indicates the direction from where the shot was probably taken. Edited July 8, 2020 by SD85 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2020 Makes sense with the ferry in the background; it was the LMS coal wagons that led me to take a punt on Holyhead. The ferry is therefore heading for Folksestone. Not sure where the Southern got it's loco coal; there is coal nearby in the Kent field but I seem to remember this was rather fractile and gassy, which might explain the LMS and LNER coal wagons if the local coal was considered unsuitable for locomotive use. A high sulpher content would manifest itself as sulphuric acid, not a thing that is noted as being particularly beneficial for boilers. It was present in all coal of course, but to differing extents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 No 12 is intriguing. The platform looks to be of recent construction (breeze-block wall, concrete paving slabs with tarmac behind.), yet the seems to be neither ramp nor fence at the end. The bridge in the background looks GWR in style, and designed for either double track or single broad-gauge. 35 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Makes sense with the ferry in the background; it was the LMS coal wagons that led me to take a punt on Holyhead. The ferry is therefore heading for Folksestone. Not sure where the Southern got it's loco coal; there is coal nearby in the Kent field but I seem to remember this was rather fractile and gassy, which might explain the LMS and LNER coal wagons if the local coal was considered unsuitable for locomotive use. A high sulpher content would manifest itself as sulphuric acid, not a thing that is noted as being particularly beneficial for boilers. It was present in all coal of course, but to differing extents. A lot of SR coal was brought from South Wales by a factor called Stephenson-Clarke, either by rail or coastal shipping.. Kent coal is good coking coal, less use for steam engines. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) The Southern got their coal from Stephenson Clarke which used their own wagons. Usually the big steel minerals. Beaten to it. Jason Edited July 9, 2020 by Steamport Southport 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted July 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, The Johnster said: The ferry is therefore heading for Folksestone. My guess is that the ferry is heading to the left, and that it has a straight stem bow and counter stern. This might mean that it is sailing from Folkestone to Calais of further east, or it is sailing from Boulogne to Dover (if Dover shed is where I think it is). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlwebus Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 Once again I am in awe of the knowledge of you all! Many thanks to all who have taken the trouble to try to answer my head scratchings: The Johnnster, Great Central, old dudders, melmouth, Merfyn Jones, Major Clanger, Dagworth, eastwestdivide, SD85, Fat Controller, Steamport Southport, and Jeremy C. I'm certainly convinced of No.14 being Dover. Fits well with the map inserted by SD85. Late 20s is OK. A lot of these photos were 1930s. There's the faintest drift of funnel smoke left from the ship - so I guess its going left to right - i.e. heading for Folkestone. Also convinced that No. 20 is Dun Laoghaire having looked at the link that Dagworth provided. Google street view shows this location absolutely solidly - the photo being taken from Seapoint Avenue. It has the same sort of colour cast that a couple of pics of GNR(I) No.171 that are in the job lot referred to. As commented by Fat Controller: No.12 does look GWR country. The shadow to the left and the sort of "hump" shadow in line with the tracks would certainly suggest it was taken from the from the cab of a DMU. If so its much later that most of the other pics in the lot. Really agravating that the cast metal sign cannot be read! I went through all the options on my photo programme (even pencil sketch) but could discern nothing. I had at least hoped for some large lettering that might have revealed the company. What about the lineside black building right of the track just before the bridge. Does that give any clues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 No 12; the mysterious black building? Could it be the station-master's house? There are instances of this being some way from the station, such as the one at Ferryside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted July 13, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2020 Is the signal in No 15 a WR one? There is something about it that says "Wales" to me - and it somehow makes me think of the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth line, although I haven't a shred of evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD85 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) I think after some research that the signal in no. 15 is a BR steel pole design. Regarding no. 12, I have reached the following conclusions so far: 1) After much close up scrutinising of the sign and comparison to other examples, I think it's a GWR one, judging by the vague outlines of the words and letters, though I can't make out what it actually says. 2) The station platform does have a ramp at the end if you look closely I think, it's just that the angle of the photograph hides it. 3) If the picture is taken on a GWR branch it could possibly be from the cab of a rail motor or push pull unit, or a railcar, so could be taken pre-war. 4) There are two bridges in the distance - one visible beyond the other - which is another identification help. 5) I have gone fairly far in this regard and checked out station photographs for quite a lot of GWR branch lines. I've checked the ones in North Devon and most of Somerset and some of Dorset, as well as the Tetbury and Cirencester branches, but found no matches so far. This means the next areas to look into are Cornwall and South Devon, Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire and Berkshire and the West Midlands, and also Wales. Edited July 13, 2020 by SD85 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD85 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) Another observation. Are numbers 12 and 15 taken on the same journey from the cab of the same train? Note the shadow in no. 12, then look closely at the bottom left of no. 15 - is that a similar shadow slightly obscuring one of the running rails? Plus the telegraph poles in both shots seem close in design, which makes me wonder if it's on the same line.... Edited July 13, 2020 by SD85 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted July 13, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2020 12 also appears to have GW two-hole chairs. I cannot quite work out where that window-edge is in relation to the train centrline. It doesn't look far enough to the left to be the centre pillar on a class 120 for example (and it looks too vertical for a GW railcar), but it looks a little too far to the left for most 3-window DMUs, so I wonder if it is an auto-coach, which appear to have had narrower middle windows (but I might well be wrong). I don't think the shadow in the four foot in 12 can be anything to do with the train. The sun is behind and a little to the left, meaning it would have to be something above the driver's head which wasn't on the opposite side. However, it is still very odd. Unless it is a colour light signal head (why there?). then for it to be an object further from the line it would appear to need to be very tall. I wonder if it is a lamp on an overbridge, although that would point to an almost excessive number of overbridges. I am no good at recognising signals, and can get nothing much from 15. The telegraph poles have an extra insulator on top which the poles in 12 appear not to have; I have no idea whether this detail is of any significance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD85 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Having checked the possibilities in Cornwall and the rest of Devon I'm pretty sure that the station in no. 12 is not in either county. It's not anywhere on the Carmarthen - Aberystwyth line either judging from my research. The shadow could possibly be a tail lamp mounted on a bracket and visible from the window? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) The bridges in No.12 are conspicuously pale in colour. I wonder if that might indicate that we are in limestone country (perhaps even as specific as the Jurassic) - Wiltshire for instance. Could the foreground "shadow" actually be the silhouette of something inside the train? Edited July 14, 2020 by Andy Kirkham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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