Guest WM183 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) Hi all. Yeah, odd question. I know. HOWEVER. Attached is a picture of my Dapol 5717, with a pair of Modelu figures in the cab. My question is... where does the driver stand? The reverser (I am assuming that's what the big lever protruding from the floor is, if it isn't... what is it please?) doesn't seem to leave him much room, and seems to be in, uh, and uncomfortable location. Would he stand off to the side, by the window? I have a bit of a time posing him there, with his arm reaching off toward the back of the cab over there... I put a crew in my Bachmann 00 model and there was a lot more space... a lot less detail, of course! Puzzled, Amanda EDIT - Forgot to add the image, derp. Edited August 16, 2020 by Guest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 My understanding (which is not really worth much) is that Great Western drivers are no the right hand side of the loco looking forward. The reversing lever is usually positioned closure to the cab wall but I guess Dapol decided to place it there show it may be more visible when on a layout? The lever is not very visible in the attached, which may be the reasoning for the inner position but is sited near the cab door. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 55 minutes ago, Bluemonkey presents.... said: The reversing lever is usually positioned closure to the cab wall but I guess Dapol decided to place it there show it may be more visible when on a layout? The reversing lever looks to be in the correct position. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted August 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2020 I think most people think there is more room in a loco cab, especially small tanks, than there actually is. I've pondered this problem as I have some white-metal driver/fireman figures (to scale) and they seem oversize for many loco cabs. Maybe the floor's too high? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted August 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2020 The simple answer is it depends. It depends on which direction you are going. In full reverse you can't stand behind the reverser and you would not want to be right behind it if you were. Yes, the regulator is fairly near the side of the cab, In fore gear you can put the seat down, but then you can't see out of the window. The GWR did not want you sitting down on the job. In fore gear, I tend to stand by the door, so I can see either out the side or out of the front window and can easily reach the regulator and brake valve. Hope that helps? What sadly can never be recreated in model form is the two handed shuffle, blower on, regulator closed, move the reverser (easier said than done sometimes) open up again and blower shut. All done as quickly as possible so as not to loose momentum. All very good fun and a joy to get one purring away. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Thanks guys. I knew you'd sort it! So I guess with the reverser back, he'd be nearer the window? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted August 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2020 He can stand wherever he likes - to see the signals clearly, contrary to most modellers' impressions you don't drive a steam loco with your hands on any of the controls all the time. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Michael Edge said: He can stand wherever he likes - to see the signals clearly Although (certainly in the modern, preservation era, on both heritage lines and with steam on the main line), I've never seen the driver and fireman swap places, just so that the driver can see the signal. The fireman will also be competent in Rules & Regulations that enable him (or her) to correctly recognise signals and keep the driver informed. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted August 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 16, 2020 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Thanks much folks. I obviously know very little about what actually makes them go. I knew the driver didnt need to keep a hand on the regulator and all, and would be busy watching for signals (Or unsignalled problems i suppose) so I will have him over near the window. Also, with the backhead and cab photos... Dapol's model continues to get more impressive. Wow. Thanks again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted August 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 17, 2020 16 hours ago, Michael Edge said: He can stand wherever he likes - to see the signals clearly, contrary to most modellers' impressions you don't drive a steam loco with your hands on any of the controls all the time. You would be surprised though, how many on footplate experience days think you have to keep your hands on the regulator or reverser, or both! As for standing where you like, yes, but generally I stay on my side as a pannier cab is not the most roomy. The expectation is your mate will observe ones which are harder for you and call them, which if they don't you sharp ask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2020 Answer to the OP - doing your best to keep out of the way of those s*dding coil springs. Not necessarily easy at times and they're bloomin' hard when encountered should you be thinking about what you are doing rather than thinking about avoiding them.. 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2020 The reversing lever seems to be in mid-gear anyway, so the engine's not about to go anywhere. In that case wouldn't the driver be sitting down with his tea, if not oiling round etc.? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2020 On 18/08/2020 at 19:26, Compound2632 said: The reversing lever seems to be in mid-gear anyway, so the engine's not about to go anywhere. In that case wouldn't the driver be sitting down with his tea, if not oiling round etc.? Sitting on what? Not exactly a comfortable process on a 57XX - off to the cabin if you had time and the sense! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: Sitting on what? As you suggest, a bench in the bothy! Edited August 21, 2020 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 21/08/2020 at 12:23, Compound2632 said: As you suggest, a bench in the bothy! No such thing as a 'bothy' on the Western. It is of course more than likely that the crews working on the 16XX transferred to Scotland retired to a bothy for their breaks that being their terminology for what on the Proper Railway was always called a/the cabin. The overwhelming majority of Western men wouldn't even understand what the word 'bothy' meant, they'd probably think it referred to an outside lavatory or suchlike 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave John Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2020 Great Scottish films..... "The invasion of the bothy thatchers " sorry ....couldn't resist ... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2020 9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: No such thing as a 'bothy' on the Western. It is of course more than likely that the crews working on the 16XX transferred to Scotland retired to a bothy for their breaks that being their terminology for what on the Proper Railway was always called a/the cabin. The overwhelming majority of Western men wouldn't even understand what the word 'bothy' meant, they'd probably think it referred to an outside lavatory or suchlike It would still be an overwhelming majority, but to a slightly lesser extent than you might think,Mike. The GW and the WR probably had as many Welsh speakers in their employ as any railway company anywhere, and a fair number of those might have made the connection to the Welsh Bwythyn, which meant the same thing give or take. I doubt Scottish loco crews expressed opinions of 16xx, being too awestruck by the Swindon magnificence to speak... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 On 16/08/2020 at 18:53, Bluemonkey presents.... said: My understanding (which is not really worth much) is that Great Western drivers are no the right hand side of the loco looking forward. The reversing lever is usually positioned closure to the cab wall but I guess Dapol decided to place it there show it may be more visible when on a layout? The lever is not very visible in the attached, which may be the reasoning for the inner position but is sited near the cab door. It looks like the side tank is missing from inside the cab on the 44/45/46XX The tank on these locos comes right back to the doorway leaving very little space for the crew, The doorway is probably as good a place as any for the driver to stand, or wedge himself if more than average build. The Great Western were very worried that crews might fall asleep on the lovely warm footplate so resisted fitting roofs and when they finally relented they made sure there was nowhere comfortable to sit or stand and that there was a horn to awaken them if they passed a signal at danger. To be honest I feel a couple of blokes, a driver with his hands by his side and a fireman looking out holding his shovel loosely look better than figures frozen in myd shovel or reaching out for a regulator. I suppose with DCC a solenoid could turn the driver depending on direction of travel or even make the fireman pivot as if shovelling coal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Thank you but I will keep the crew as is. You only get a brief glimpse as the locomotive travels past negating any static poses, on shed is a different point altogether. The tanks are accurate and correct to my knowledge for a 39xx. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said: To be honest I feel a couple of blokes, a driver with his hands by his side and a fireman looking out holding his shovel loosely look better than figures frozen in myd shovel or reaching out for a regulator. With you there. I like to see model steam locos with crews in more 'relaxed' poses. Mindyou, the Fireman on my Minerva 8750 looks a bit too relaxed.... On the other side of the cab, I don't recall having much trouble fitting in the driver, though. I don't know who posed for the Modelu scan, but he looks a miserable old goat... Perhaps he just caught his shin on those coil springs.... 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said: With you there. I like to see model steam locos with crews in more 'relaxed' poses. Mindyou, the Fireman on my Minerva 8750 looks a bit too relaxed.... On the other side of the cab, I don't recall having much trouble fitting in the driver, though. I don't know who posed for the Modelu scan, but he looks a miserable old goat... Perhaps he just caught his shin on those coil springs.... Modelling which is superb in every resect but one critical thing has been captured to perfection and that is the colouring of the overall trousers and jean jacket (no, it wasn't denim but they were often referred to as jean jackets. Footplate overall etc cotton clothing very rapidly lost the blueness of its colouring because it washed, aided by the use of washing soda to get rid of any grease and oil. a classic way of washing this clothing was not to take it home and incur domestic wrath but to use the bucket with hot water from the pep pipe and chuck in washing soda crystals and leave it to soak - hopefully without knocking the bucket over when a bit of activity called. So dark blue overall clothing indicated one thing - new issue, something which many a young Fireman rushed to 'age' while of course the Drver's overall clothing had usually sustained a few years of washing (until he got his new issue). 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham456 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: Modelling which is superb in every resect but one critical thing has been captured to perfection and that is the colouring of the overall trousers and jean jacket Yes and I would love to know what the paint colour was used on these men so I can copy them on my crew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 On 16/08/2020 at 20:04, melmerby said: ...I've pondered this problem as I have some white-metal driver/fireman figures (to scale) and they seem oversize for many loco cabs. Maybe the floor's too high? The fundamental problem is that the real thing is a flexible meatsack, not a rigid chunk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: Modelling which is superb in every resect but one critical thing has been captured to perfection and that is the colouring of the overall trousers and jean jacket (no, it wasn't denim but they were often referred to as jean jackets. Footplate overall etc cotton clothing very rapidly lost the blueness of its colouring because it washed, aided by the use of washing soda to get rid of any grease and oil. a classic way of washing this clothing was not to take it home and incur domestic wrath but to use the bucket with hot water from the pep pipe and chuck in washing soda crystals and leave it to soak - hopefully without knocking the bucket over when a bit of activity called. So dark blue overall clothing indicated one thing - new issue, something which many a young Fireman rushed to 'age' while of course the Drver's overall clothing had usually sustained a few years of washing (until he got his new issue). Thanks for that observation. The Fireman on my Dapol Pannier (still to be weathered) is a new lad, still a bit green, and a bit self-conscious of his overalls.... His Driver on the other hand is another old sweat, who bears an uncanny resemblance to the Fireman on 3675.... The paints are just Tamiya acrylics; the standard flat blue, well diluted with white & grey, with grey & black washes added. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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