"Welsh Highland Railway Developments & Progress"?

[James]

I don't think there's any way that the NRM, were it to be a new institution, would contemplate sectioning Ellerman Lines the way it did in the 70s, even though it's an ideal education tool.

 

I think they might in the same circumstances now - Ellerman Lines was ex-Barry iirc so would have needed a huge amount of work to restore and their were other examples either restored or in the process of.

[ForestPines]

You have a point there - whereas there aren't any other V2s.

[James]

You have a point there - whereas there aren't any other V2s.

 

Exactly - can you imagine if they'd wanted to section Green Arrow?!

 

I think that Ellerman Lines is different from rebuilding things like Linda and Blanche as they are very much working engines rather the preserved for posterity - even here Charles is there to represent the original form there for the future.

[coachmann]

It was very easy to put Blanche back as a tank loco, as was shown at the Festiniog Railway 'Penrhyn Gala' of the early 1990s. It looked very neat too. Another favourite of mine was the USA tank. I was filming it on one of many occasions in the mountains around Tanygrisiau when the driver used the chime whistle instead of the FR hooter. It echoed around the place and made the heart beat faster! I think chime whistles are what's needed in the mountains on the Welsh Highland....

[John M]

I think there's a lot in that argument- I've travelled on the WHR 4 times now, to Rhyd Ddu in 2006 & 2007, to Beddgelert on the first day of full public opening in 2009 and to Hafod-y-Llyn early this year, and a part of the overall impression I have is that, yes, compared to some of the other Welsh NG lines it lacks a little something in atmosphere because it does look and feel very new and almost sterile- the ballast is clean, the lineside fencing, structures and much of the civil engineering look very new etc, as you'd expect given that a lot of it has been in place for such a short time.

 

I think this pic of Beddgelert station during construction shows some of what we're talking about; Look at the contrast between the new platforms and the original concrete WHR water tower supports on the left...

http://www.whrsoc.or...dd-120208-5.jpg

 

Ironically comparing photographs of the WHR in Bedgellert and around Bryn y Fellin and the Aberglaslyn Pass taken in the 1920s with todays works the contrast is startling the new railway has a more established "well maintained" look compared with the old Bedgellert Station which basically looked like a quarry.

 

The Southern Section of the Old Welsh Highland always looked very different from some of the Welsh NG lines both on account of the era of its construction and its engineering having more in common with the Rheidol and early 20th Century construction and less in common with the Spooner influenced pre-Light Railway era lines of the 1860s and 70s.

 

The issue of conserving original WHR/NGWR artifacts, together with the isue of what would be acceptible within the National Park has been a controversial subject among the parties involved in rebuilding the WHR. Prominent Welsh Highland Heritage Group and WHRS members holding quite contrary views.

 

Like both the FR and WHRL permanent station buildings have had to take second place to getting the railway up and running and raising the finance.

 

Some WHRL members built a mirror image replica of Nantmor at Pen-y-mount as part of a 1920s era WHR station, while the FR have substituted timber cladding for tin and has developed quite an attractive company style at Bedgellert Campsite, Bedgellert and Nantmor. The Welsh Highland Heritage Group have funded a mirror image of the building that existed at Ynysfor for Pont Croesor halt.

John

[Captain Kernow]

A couple more images from my recent visit:

 

[James]

Tim, when you see photos like that you can easil forget about the arguments behind the scenes

[roythebus]

Maybe a few of us from here can go along with some Woodland Scenics amd Floquil weathering paint to make it all look a bit more used??

[Oldddudders]

Maybe a few of us from here can go along with some Woodland Scenics amd Floquil weathering paint to make it all look a bit more used??

And excellent practice for those still getting used to weathering with an airbrush!

[rhydddu009]

Firstly, can we just correct something - it's GARRATT not Garrett or Garret (which is a make of steam roller I believe).

 

I note the grumbles about the non heritage nature of the NGG16s, well if you want to see heritage trains on the new WHR then come along to some of the special events like superpwower in sept (the same is true of seeing the pickering carriages on the W+L - only at special events!). In previous years we have had the real and replica summer cars 23/24, bowsiders, bugs and iron sided bogies all of which were used on the WHR, with Prince, Palmerston, Merddin, Taliesin etc. Russell came in 2003 as well, but only got to Waunfawr back then, I dio hope she (he?) graces the full line asap.

 

and hopefully soon Welsh Pony too. oh and this year at superpower 2010 you'll see some L+B in new build Lyd too.

 

as for heritage on the line, there is:

 

• 
   
  
• Dinas station Building.
  
• Dinas Goods Shed.
  
• The majority of the original NWNG road-over bridges.
  
• The PB&SSR bridges.
  
• Two of the three NWNG river bridges.
  
• Beddgelert Water tower, inspection pit and lamp room base. tank and lamp room to be erected soon.
  
• The weigh houses at Glanrafon and Beddgelert Sidings (base and weigh pit).
  
• The water tower at Portmadoc New (1923) station.
  
• Most of the culverts, (many attractively rebuilt).
  
• Underpasses at Bod Aden and Tan yr Alt
  
• Bont y Cyt - the Croesor tramway bridge over the Cyt in Porthmadog.
  
• Waunfawr station building (to be re- erected when funds allow)
  
• Cambrian Crossing Signal Box, plus associated wooden gates and fencing.
  
• Tryfan Junction station building.
  
• Pont Croesor Waiting Shelter recently erected in style of Ynysfor
  
• A water tank to go atop the preserved water tower at Beddgelert.
  

and don't forget that in places like Beddgelert a replica of the crinkly tin waiting room would be impossible under current national park planning rules.

 

oh and how many other heritage railways have been able to recreate the past when it has frankly almost been obliterated. Think of winchcombe on the gwsr - it looks fab now, but that station building aint original! and it's taken them a long while to do it, years since it opened. give the whr project some time too!

[Captain Kernow]

Good points there, Colin, I feel. Isn't the new building at Nantmawr also a similar replica pattern to the new structure at Pont Croesor?

[Nickinwestwales]

Wouldn`t it be nice if all the children could play nicely together...........................

 

I realise that this is an impossible dream,but how is this for a lovely day out :-A trip down from Caernavon to Beddgelert(the old `frontier` station) behind Russell,change to a similar train with Welsh Pony down to the harbour,and then a Fairlie up to Blaenau and back--then a fish supper and an early night or a few beers.....................It could be done -so easily...................................I`m sure enthusiasts would be there like wasps round a jam-jar..but no,petty bloody politics....Don`t get me started or I will use language that will offend.............................

Best to all

Nick

[James]

I`m sure enthusiasts would be there like wasps round a jam-jar

 

I bet they would, but like so many railways they'd be by the lineside for much of it. This perhaps why the FR have approached in the manner in which they have. From what I've seen the line seems well used by visitors to the area, so I guess it works.

 

I doubt the new WHR will ever satisfy everyone; the old WHR is now confined to books and the memories of the few left who saw and travelled upon it.

[Guest Phil]

 

.I`m sure enthusiasts would be there like wasps round a jam-jar..but no,petty bloody politics....Don`t get me started or I will use language that will offend.............................

Best to all

Nick

 

 

But with respect Nick, enthusiasts will be but a small part of the overall number of visitors to the WHR. We need to remember that

[Chameleon]

I'm going to Wales by train next week. How would I get to the Welsh Highland? Down to Porthmadoc n bus up from there?

[ForestPines]

You could also get the bus from Bangor to Caernarfon.

[John M]

I'm going to Wales by train next week. How would I get to the Welsh Highland? Down to Porthmadoc n bus up from there?

 

Its usually quicker and cheaper to reach Portmadoc via the North Wales Coast, Conway Valley and FR than going around by Shrewsbury and the Cambrian Line.

 

It should be possible to book a through ticket to Portmadoc via the Conway Valley & through ticket holders are entitled to 1st Class travel on the FR.

 

There is a connecting vintage bus from Port to Pont Croesor about 1.5 miles.

 

 

Going back to Phils comment about vintage trains, whle enthusiasts make up a small proportion of the overall figures on most tourist railway, heritage style operation and Enthusiast Events are an important bothy in terms of financial results and promotion/recruitment of volunteers.

 

Such events are a regular and important part of both the FR & WHHR Calander with visting locomotives unusual workings. Russell and Taliesin have worked on the Northern Section o the WHR, Palmerston and a Alco 4-6-0PT has worked on the WHHR.

 

More recently the FR re-created the 'old days" with Palmerston and vintage stock on Photographic Charter working through the Aberglaslyn Pass.

 

John

[invercloy]

I'm going to Wales by train next week. How would I get to the Welsh Highland? Down to Porthmadoc n bus up from there?

 

Surely that depends on what area you're coming from!?

 

From Kent I always drive up to Betws-y-Coed and then head down the A470 and follow the FR along.

[Chameleon]

Well we are coming down from Edinburgh and are going to spend a couple of days in wales "playing trains" and then on down to the south coast. We have staff passes so really all we need to work out is the what n where of it all.

[Chameleon]

Well we are coming down from Edinburgh and are going to spend a couple of days in wales "playing trains" and then on down to the south coast. We have staff passes so really all we need to work out is the what n where of it all.

[DavidH]

I was at Beddgelert a couple of days ago - the Garratt's hooter echoing in the rain through the woods and across the hillsides was decidedly atmospheric ... and there were plenty of people travelling or just stopping to photograph. But one thing - Beddgelert village appears to have no signs whatsoever to show which direction the station is. Strange? Or does the village not want the railway? (I half remember that there were some objections to the line's rebuilding.)

[Bomag]

But one thing - Beddgelert village appears to have no signs whatsoever to show which direction the station is. Strange? Or does the village not want the railway? (I half remember that there were some objections to the line's rebuilding.)

 

The £100m question when the rebuilding was a serious proposition was will tourists go from Beddgelert or to the village. AFAIR the majority view was that if the trains were to go from Harbour station (i.e. limited parking) then it was likely to generate traffic from Beddgelert to Porthmadoc. Personally I would have seen the railway as a opportunity to remove most parking in the village and have a park and ride. The upshot of all this is that no signs were to be installed in Beddgelert which could increase the number of people wanting to park. Presumably the assumption is that if you have walk from the station to the village you can find your way back.

 

Given the original point of the thread, stopping the 64co running on the basis of abstraction, having too many trains for Beddgelert from the south is likely to have the same effect. Running the service from Dinas could be an issue; given the current off peak service there would not be the opportunity to do a round trip from Porthmadog. Even in peak season there would only be a single a.m. departure (diesel). I had assumed that when the numbers were crunched the figures would still be OK when the route was completed and the flows would even out from whole journeys North to South to a variety of flows from both directions.

[coachmann]

Beddgelert looks to have the same stance as Blaenau Ffestiniog. The latters civic fathers demanded this and that when the standard and narrow gauge lines were brought together into the newly constructed Ffestiniog Central Sation, yet the shop keepers have never put themselves out for tousists. Half the time the place is a ghost town because it is so unwelcoming. The footbridge leading passengers into town was such a waste of space that common sence prevailed in the end and a level crossing was installed enabling cross-platform rail connection, leaving the townfolk to live their lives in splendid isolation! Beddgellert, on the other hand, is always busy.

[DavidH]

Beddgelert looks to have the same stance as Blaenau Ffestiniog. The latters civic fathers demanded this and that when the standard and narrow gauge lines were brought together into the newly constructed Ffestiniog Central Sation, yet the shop keepers have never put themselves out for tousists. Half the time the place is a ghost town because it is so unwelcoming. The footbridge leading passengers into town was such a waste of space that common sence prevailed in the end and a level crossing was installed enabling cross-platform rail connection, leaving the townfolk to live their lives in splendid isolation! Beddgellert, on the other hand, is always busy.

 

Funny! I was at both over two consecutive days. I was camping just outside Beddgellert, and wanted to walk to the station - at least I had an idea of where the railway should be! Blaenau still looks as unwelcoming as ever.

[Ohmisterporter]

The last time I was in Blaenau I was standing in a queue in the fish shop and the two women behind the counter were working away but having a rather animated conversation in Welsh. In the middle of this one of them said to the other "If looks could kill" and then carried on in Welsh. Perhaps there is no Welsh equivalent, but it made me smile.

 

Geoff.