Towards pre-Grouping carriages in 4mm – the D508 appreciation thread

[Mol_PMB]

30 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

Different scales are produced from the same artwork by using the appropriate thickness of metal. 

 

There is a 7mm tool for the D.529 PBV, but I haven't etched from it for 10 years so I don't know what state it's in. 

Many thanks Bill. When you get a chance, perhaps you could look and see if it’s still usable? If so, then I’d be very interested in a 7mm etch. 
Many thanks,

Mol

[billbedford]

I'm afraid It doesn't work like that. When I order from the etchers, if there's a problem with a set of tools, I get a message from them saying that they must re-print the films. 

 

I'll try to get a list of 7mm with existing tools onto the website soon. 

Edited February 3 by billbedford

[Mol_PMB]

Ah, OK. Sounds like there's a considerable unknown element to the cost then.

I'll put that project back on the back-burner then!

[Citadel]

On 03/02/2024 at 11:28, Compound2632 said:

I've assembled the sides for the 51L/Wizard (ex-PC Models) D529 passenger brake van:

 

 

Soldering the door ventilator hoods straight was a bit of a game. The curved tops and bottoms of the duckets were formed round a 2.3 mm-diameter drill shaft. the top curve is in the full thickness of the brass and was hammered* to shape with the straight section of the ducket held in the bending bars, which do double duty as a vice.** The bottom curve is in half-etched material so was easier to curve round the shaft by finger pressure.

 

*Not with a hammer. An engineer's square has many uses and abuses, and also nice flat surfaces.

 

**I do have one of those multi-angle pin vices but all the various tables or desks I use for modelling have a bar or rib under the edge of the table-top, so I can't clamp it to the table.

 

As to the Branchlines six-wheeler sides, I've had an idea...

 

Very impressive progress - and not only do I like the fully panelled aesthetic the lack of windows doesn't half make detailing the interior quicker...

 

Have to say that attaching the vents with a soldering iron is one of my least favourite jobs - always seem to get them wonky and make a mess with the excess solder.  Do covet a resistance soldering station - am sure this would make the whole process more straightforward.  

 

With the LNWR carriages where the ventilator hoods are a different colour to the panel I've resorted to painting them separately and affixing with superglue after the sides are lined.  Even with the MR ones where they are sprayed at the same time as the body I've been tempted to go down this route.  I feel that good practice is the advice @Jol Wilkinson posted re: having holes in the body etch allowing the ventilators to be soldered from behind (as with his etches for the LRM 45' family saloon I made a couple of years ago):

 

 

Almost tempted to get a drill out and do this on kits where they aren't present...

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Citadel said:

Do covet a resistance soldering station - am sure this would make the whole process more straightforward.  

 

Half-way through the process I took time out to watch a video on resistance soldering!

 

 

Edited February 4 by Compound2632
Correct video

[Jol Wilkinson]

Unfortunately Stephen, the link doesn't take you to David Brandreth's excellent video on using a RSU , but to an American video on resistance soddering (which is how USA residents pronounce what we know as soldering).

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Unfortunately Stephen, the link doesn't take you to David Brandreth's excellent video on using a RSU , but to an American video on resistance soddering (which is how USA residents pronounce what we know as soldering).

 

Sodd....

 

I think I've now got the correct link in the post. @Citadel, David Brandreth's was the one I watched.

Edited February 4 by Compound2632

[Chas Levin]

On 03/02/2024 at 11:28, Compound2632 said:

**I do have one of those multi-angle pin vices but all the various tables or desks I use for modelling have a bar or rib under the edge of the table-top, so I can't clamp it to the table.

 

Nice work on those sides, Stephen. I've started trying out the GW mini rollers btw and am currently working out a way to calibrate the two adjustment screws for accuracy and repeatability: more to follow.

 

For your table edge problem, if you sandwich a small piece of wood or plastic (or metal) that's slightly thicker than the bar or rib underneath the table and up against the rib, you can then position the vice's lower clamp face onto the wood/plastic/metal.

 

If the clamp part of the vice is too shallow to allow that, but you can find a piece of something the same thickness as the bar/rib, you can clamp the vice over the bar/rib and inserted piece simultaneously.

 

Hope that's of help.

[Compound2632]

For the recalcitrant Branchlines sides and ends, which had proven resistant to rolling, I tried making a press - plasticard formers for the inside and outside of the bend, sandwiched in the vice-like grip of the bending bars reinforced with a G-clamp - but to no effect. The brass is too springy.

[Buhar]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

The brass is too springy.

I think you might need to anneal it.  Do you cook with gas?  Do be careful, as once softened it's easy to distort with even finger pressure.  My experience is limited (and with mixed results) so I don't know if you can slightly anneal brass or whether it's all or nothing.

 

Alan

[Compound2632]

14 hours ago, Buhar said:

Do you cook with gas? 

 

We moved over to an induction hob a year ago!

[billbedford]

You could put the brass in the oven for about 20-30 minutes at 200ºC. It will not be a full anneal but should be soft enough to form the curve. 

[Mol_PMB]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, but I suspect that here it will reach an appropriate audience.

I have been sorting through some cupboards of old stuff I bought on eBay years ago for reasons I cannot remember. One is a bundle of Cheshire Lines paperwork (I do live on the CLC). The biggest item is a collated set of meeting minutes, rolling stock lists etc relating to the CLC carriage building programme. It covers the years 1938 to 1949, so not pre-grouping but almost all the vehicles listed are pre-grouping. The unassuming cover looks like this:

One of the earlier pages looks like this:

One of the later pages looks like this:

 

I estimate there are between 50 and 100 pages of various sizes.

 

 

Shall I put it back in the cupboard and forget about it for another decade, or should I do something else with it?

 

Cheers,

Mol

[65179]

Don't just stick it back in the cupboard Paul.

 

It's an interesting and neglected period of the CLC's history.  Of course I would say that modelling the CLC in 1950! However, I get the impression that, in rolling stock terms, more is known about the period before the CLC gave up its freight stock to the LMS and LNER (brake vans aside) in the 1930s.  The exceptions being things like the Cravens order for the Liverpool-Manchester Gresley articulated coaching stock.

 

Simon

 

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, 65179 said:

Don't just stick it back in the cupboard Paul.

It's an interesting and neglected period of the CLC's history.  Of course I would say that modelling the CLC in 1950! However, I get the impression that, in rolling stock terms, more is known about the period before the CLC gave up its freight stock to the LMS and LNER (brake vans aside) in the 1930s.  The exceptions being things like the Cravens order for the Liverpool-Manchester Gresley articulated coaching stock.

Simon

 

OK, well I don't mind scanning or photographing it, but I'm not sure how best to share this to a wider audience given the number of pages.

Alternatively I'd be happy to send it to you or someone else, but if so I think I'd like to see it shared in some way rather than just being lost in someone else's cupboard!

 

Thoughts welcome!

[Compound2632]

51 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Thoughts welcome!

 

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a Line Society for the CLC, otherwise I would suggest donating it - or at least scans of it - to their archive. 

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Thoughts welcome!

 

You could try the guys at http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/  They have a large set of BR diagram books on their website and might be interested in branching out into the CLC, if not, they are likely to have a feel for possible homes for these notes. 

[jwealleans]

I'm sure the LNER Society (at least the fringe group of which I'm a member who take a borderline unhealthy interest in this kind of thing) would also be interested in an electronic copy.   There might be any number of Journal articles in such a document.

[65179]

There's no line society. The HMRS would have been the place for this a few years ago, but to my knowledge have not had a CLC steward for a number of years since the last one 'stood down'. Although CLC, it probably falls outside of the interest of the Manchester Locomotive Society despite them holding a fair bit of CLC stuff.

 

Paul, I'm happy to scan it, return the originals to you and provide copies to the LNER Society, @robertcwp's coaching stock group and anyone else with an interest.

 

Regards,

Simon

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

36 minutes ago, 65179 said:

There's no line society. The HMRS would have been the place for this a few years ago, but to my knowledge have not had a CLC steward for a number of years since the last one 'stood down'. Although CLC, it probably falls outside of the interest of the Manchester Locomotive Society despite them holding a fair bit of CLC stuff.

 

Paul, I'm happy to scan it, return the originals to you and provide copies to the LNER Society, @robertcwp's coaching stock group and anyone else with an interest.

 

Regards,

Simon

 

 

Hi Simon,

That's a very kind offer. If you PM me your address I'll get it in the post this week.

Best Regards,

Paul

[Compound2632]

Several weeks ago, I had the offer of the loan of a G.W. Models 10" roller bar set, which as you might imagine after my tales of turnunder woe, I took up with alacrity. Tumbling home, I was avid to try it out but various distractions got in the way. I now have it set up:

 

 

and after some experimentation, I have been very pleased with the results:

 

 

to the extent that I have ordered my own.

 

Mr Watts says he is waiting on parts which he expects shortly. So I think I ought to do some more rolling this week, to make best use of this one, as I have the opportunity to return it to its owner at the Basingstoke show next weekend.

 

As can be seen, I have been using the Allan key, making quarter-turn adjustments to gradually decrease the radius of curvature, using the Australian desert wine bottle as a curvature gauge.

 

These sides and ends have fold-up tabs along the bottom edge, which, as others mentioned above, helps, as the curve doesn't kick in until a few millimetres in from the edge. As can be seen, I've yet to find out what damage I do to my nice curve when I try to fold the tabs!

[John-Miles]

The GW Roller bars are very useful items. e.g van roofs from nickel silver, much better than plasticard and when you start a thread on loco building, boilers and cab roofs.

[Chas Levin]

Nice work - and happy to see you like them too! I wish I had more projects on the go on which to use them - I expect I'll get over the novelty but at the moment, they're a favourite new toy. Like you, after struggling for so long with metal bars, mouse mats and so froth, these things are like magic!

You should be able to avoid curve compromise during tab folding by holding those areas not intended to be folded really flat... which was going to lead me neatly on to my next recommendation, a Hold-and-Fold, but looking online it looks like they might be discontinued...?

 

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

which was going to lead me neatly on to my next recommendation, a Hold-and-Fold, but looking online it looks like they might be discontinued...?

 

Is that one of Mr Watts'? I suppose the MRJ advert lists current items but he said he'd enclose a catalogue.

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Is that one of Mr Watts'? I suppose the MRJ advert lists current items but he said he'd enclose a catalogue.

Stephen,

 

the Hold and Fold tools were available through Eileens Emporium. An internet search turns up clones on Amazon and Ebay.

 

Jol