SCOTRAIL CLASS 47/7s

[Galtee More]

On the Scotrail Class 47/7s (47 701 - 47 717) there is some 'wriggly pipework' fitted above the tanks. This was on one side only, I believe. I have not found any photographs to suggest that thiswas fitted to the later 47/7s (47 721 - 47 792). The Class 57s seem to have something similar fitted.

 

Sorry, I have quite a few questions here, but can anyone please help ?

 

 

What is this pipework, what is it called ?

What does it do ?

Where does it originate and terminate ?

Is it lagged or painted (white ?) ?

 

Were the 47/7s fitted with this when first converted or at a later dated ?

Were they all fitted with it ?

 

 

 

Lastly (at last !), does anyone have any close-up detail pictures that they could post on this thread ?

 

Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

Ian

 

 

 

[Glorious NSE]

From memory it was something to do with getting better brake performance on the Scotrail 47/7s due to the stop-start nature of their work

 

As far as I know all the Scotrail 47/7s had it (and they have kept it after leaving that work) - but whether it was an original 47/7 mod or something applied after a bit of experience in operation I don't know.

 

It's a white painted pipe.

[newbryford]

From memory it was something to do with getting better brake performance on the Scotrail 47/7s due to the stop-start nature of their work

 

As far as I know all the Scotrail 47/7s had it (and they have kept it after leaving that work) - but whether it was an original 47/7 mod or something applied after a bit of experience in operation I don't know.

 

It's a white painted pipe.

 

ISTR that it was a simple from of radiator to dissipate heat from the airbrake system. As Martyn says, due to the high usage with frequent high speed/heavy braking cycles.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Supaned]

The pipework in question is part of the compressor cooling system.

 

On most class 47s (ie not 47701-717 push-pull conversions) , the compressors only run when the driver's key is in the desk & the direction switch away from the off position. The 47/7s were modified to allow the compressors to run with no key in the desk , for when the locos were pushing a train.

 

I don't recall the compressors on the 47/7s running constantly , but they may well have had the governors adjusted to run more frequently (and therefore get hotter and require more cooling).

 

Only 47701-717 were fitted with this pipework (which was a plain white painted pipe) upon conversion to push-pull machines.

 

HTH

[brian daniels]

47717 Pipe work

 

Link to a pic I have on my web site for you.

[Red Baron]

47717 Pipe work

 

Link to a pic I have on my web site for you.

 

 

that does look similar to that which is found on the 57's

[Scottish Modeller]

47717 Pipe work

 

Link to a pic I have on my web site for you.

Hi Brian,

 

Good timing with the link...

 

I've been racking my brains since last weekend trying to remember where I'd seen a close up of the pipework.

 

Thanks

[Flood]

Glenn told me all about them. He worked on the 47/7s at Haymarket from 1985 to 1987.

 

They were after-coolers and were an attempt to remove a build up of moisture which was causing loco failures. You'll find that they didn't have them when they were first converted.

 

He says they still didn't make the 47/7s any more reliable.

[Bob Reid]

Glenn told me all about them. He worked on the 47/7s at Haymarket from 1985 to 1987.

 

They were after-coolers and were an attempt to remove a build up of moisture which was causing loco failures. You'll find that they didn't have them when they were first converted.

 

He says they still didn't make the 47/7s any more reliable.

 

There was a secondary reason Graham Glenn has forgotten about (well it's coaching stock, he would) - Those nasty 47/7s were dumping (relatively) huge amounts of water into the Mark 3s - particularly the first three vehicles - at least the first one and a bit coach pipework was acting as a huge aftercooler. Not you would think a great problem as the reservoirs have automatic blowdown valves however it was variously and regularly scr@wing up the automatic door EP valves and the door gear was being (over)adjusted to make them close properly - however when the water dried out - well you get the picture - culminating in a serious incident with a "bairn" getting quite seriously hurt by a fast closing door! apart from that it was costing us a fortune in door gear........ I've always wondered whether 12019 is still going about with the monitoring equipment I stuck on it all those years ago now - it was sucking out water by the gallon daily!

[Waverley West]

Does anyone know of anyone who sells them as mouldings or etchings (4mm)? Do Bachmann sell them as spares for their 57?

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Glorious NSE]

Hurst does a casting for it, it's a "flat" casting which you paint black and paint the pipe white on.

 

That sounds rather lame, but they are pretty effective when installed.

[Waverley West]

Hurst does a casting for it, it's a "flat" casting which you paint black and paint the pipe white on.

 

That sounds rather lame, but they are pretty effective when installed.

 

 

Thanks for that GloriousNSE!

[Galtee More]

Sincere thanks to everyone for all the answers, information and the photograph too. It's certainly interesting, very helpful and is much appreciated.

 

Thank you all again

 

Ian

[Galtee More]

This might be a bit of a long shot, but some of the answers seem to have come from people who were involved with these locomotives, or who knew someone who was. So, does anyone know the actual dimensions of the pipework, ie:

 

Outside diameter of the pipe.

Horizontal length of the pipework.

Height (top to bottom) of the pipework.

 

 

Ian

 

 

 

 

[DavidM]

Have stumbled upon this thread while looking for something slightly different - but it's actually a question I needed answering....so cheers for the info guys!

[Crossfell5]

The pipes were on one side only as you thought - the secondmans side from No 1 End (the rad fan end)

[CovDriver]

As I was drawn to this thread I noticed in front of me on the Computer desk/workbench I have a Heljan class 47/57 fuel tank with the pipework your after it's only collecting dust if it's anygood to you PM me ?

 

Colin

[Flood]

Apologies to Glenn (my memory isn't what it used to be) the problems described by Bob were the primary reason for fitting the after-coolers to the 47/7s.

 

The Mk2 stock when built had end doors which were pulled open by hand and then returned by the use of a tape similar to one used in a tape measure. When the Mk2 stock was refurbished and given power operated doors they still used the tape to return them, unlike the Mk3a stock which was powered in both directions. Hence at least the Mk2 coaches didn't try to trap people quite so vigorously in the end doors!

 

The problem only surfaced in Scotland because the push-pulls was the only services which constantly used Class 47s on Mk3a stock, all the other Mk3a coaches were regularly hauled by AC electrics. Although Mk3a stock was used on holiday trains in the late 1980s to Devon and Cornwall the use of a 47 on an out and back working would not have been an issue.

 

A rare example of the motive power side co-operating with the coaching stock side.

[Bob Reid]

A rare example of the motive power side co-operating with the coaching stock side.

 

 

(Sorry Graham I couldn't resist)

 

 

 

[mjkerr]

Does anyone know where I can source these for N gauge?

[mercig studios]

 

Does anyone know where I can source these for N gauge?

 

You can use the battery box from a Farish 57/3 but really you should do some modification of taking the central moulding out in order to give the distinctive look of a 47/7 battery box:

 

 

For the later style 47/7 it is a little more complicated and requires splicing together two different battery boxes and moving around some of the details such as the caps:

 

 

Hope that helps

 

M