D5578 - did it or didn't it ?

[Halvarras]

6 hours ago, BrushVeteran said:

Well judging by these images, the first one of which is not mine and I will remove if the copyright owner insists, the roofs were all pretty much the same and ended up the least cleaned part of the loco. Washing plants were still virtually non-existent when this picture was taken and depots were still employing cleaners to hand clean diesel locomotives. I recall fresh grey paint being applied to one of Finsbury Park's Brush 2's  roof during a visit there in 1966.............mostly on top of the existing  filth!

I think you are pretty safe with standard roof grey of whatever shade and condition you wish to interpret!

 

This is what I was referring to when describing green Class 31s with a lot of grey roof showing - here's 5827 at Bristol Bath Road on 28/7/73 looking surprisingly 'clean' up top considering the date:

I painted up a Tri-ang model based on my photo shortly after taking it. I only discovered in a 2002 issue of Traction magazine that one month less a day earlier this loco had worked 1V76 0830 (I think) Liverpool - Penzance westward from Plymouth, caught on camera at St Budeaux - so far the earliest known Class 31 across the Tamar. It appears that it reached the end of the line OK but had a spot of bother getting back....... On 15/2/74 it would achieve fame (or infamy!) as the only Class 31 to receive a TOPS number (31294) which it only carried for two weeks, being called to Doncaster for general overhaul on 2/3/74, but enough time for me to see it at Reading. I have an Airfix body on a Hornby Railroad chassis to recreate this oddity which I really must get around to finishing (I won't admit to how many years it has sat around part-finished, it's embarrassing! But it's time to get it finished.........he says......again!)

 

Incidentally, and veering further OT, the lower group shot above reveals that somewhere between D5525/31 and D5578 Brush made a small design change - they must have decided that the straight cab door handrails looked a little inelegant so on later locos these were curved to match the body profile, as the light picks up on the blue 'un.

D5525 was actually the very first Class 31 (or Class 30?) I saw, from a carriage window while en route from Cornwall around London to reach Chingford (for the Gilwell Park scouting centre) behind D827 'Kelly' in the early hours of 25/7/67, apparently its last run in green livery. I wouldn't see another until 5825 at Derby over 2 years later, and just minutes before clapping eyes on my very first Class 37, 6807. The problem with being a Cornish spotter of limited means in the late 1960s was that yer ABC got heavily-scored on the Warship, Western and NBL Type 2 pages with pretty much s*d all elsewhere - no wonder we got all excited about Brush Type 4s. Mind you, alongside D5525 were D8202/7 and D8405, truly 'exotic' machinery to me!

Even further OT now so apologies, I'll zip it 🤐!!

[Enterprisingwestern]

15 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

This is what I was referring to when describing green Class 31s with a lot of grey roof showing - here's 5827 at Bristol Bath Road on 28/7/73 looking surprisingly 'clean' up top considering the date:

I painted up a Tri-ang model based on my photo shortly after taking it. I only discovered in a 2002 issue of Traction magazine that one month less a day earlier this loco had worked 1V76 0830 (I think) Liverpool - Penzance westward from Plymouth, caught on camera at St Budeaux - so far the earliest known Class 31 across the Tamar. It appears that it reached the end of the line OK but had a spot of bother getting back....... On 15/2/74 it would achieve fame (or infamy!) as the only Class 31 to receive a TOPS number (31294) which it only carried for two weeks, being called to Doncaster for general overhaul on 2/3/74, but enough time for me to see it at Reading. I have an Airfix body on a Hornby Railroad chassis to recreate this oddity which I really must get around to finishing (I won't admit to how many years it has sat around part-finished, it's embarrassing! But it's time to get it finished.........he says......again!)

 

Incidentally, and veering further OT, the lower group shot above reveals that somewhere between D5525/31 and D5578 Brush made a small design change - they must have decided that the straight cab door handrails looked a little inelegant so on later locos these were curved to match the body profile, as the light picks up on the blue 'un.

D5525 was actually the very first Class 31 (or Class 30?) I saw, from a carriage window while en route from Cornwall around London to reach Chingford (for the Gilwell Park scouting centre) behind D827 'Kelly' in the early hours of 25/7/67, apparently its last run in green livery. I wouldn't see another until 5825 at Derby over 2 years later, and just minutes before clapping eyes on my very first Class 37, 6807. The problem with being a Cornish spotter of limited means in the late 1960s was that yer ABC got heavily-scored on the Warship, Western and NBL Type 2 pages with pretty much s*d all elsewhere - no wonder we got all excited about Brush Type 4s. Mind you, alongside D5525 were D8202/7 and D8405, truly 'exotic' machinery to me!

Even further OT now so apologies, I'll zip it 🤐!!

 

On the contrary, do go on, if not here then somewhere else, the human side of things is always interesting.

 

Mike.

[Hal Nail]

16 hours ago, Halvarras said:

The problem with being a Cornish spotter of limited means in the late 1960s was that yer ABC got heavily-scored on the Warship, Western and NBL Type 2 pages with pretty much s*d all elsewhere

When you put it like that I can only count my blessings my parents had the foresight to live ìn Portsmouth.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Hal Nail

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

When you put it like that I can only count my blessings my parents had the foresight to live ìn Portsmouth.

 

It was only a problem while I was a Cornish spotter of limited means, and of an age where I failed to grasp that anyone living elsewhere at the extremities of the rail system faced much the same situation. Looking back of course, if one was in that situation then Cornwall in the hydraulic era was the place to be - it just took a while for that to sink in!

[Big_Bad_John]

On 18/07/2023 at 21:29, New Haven Neil said:

The plain blue one is right, which can also have small yellow panels - the Triang one with white cabs is wrong, and the one with white stripes is also wrong.

Did D5578 ever have a white, grey or cream roof?

[Rugd1022]

Lovely Robert Gadsdon shot of D5578 here from his Flickr collection...

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Rugd1022

[BernardTPM]

That's interesting. It must have gained the overhead warning flash soon after that, but before the yellow patches were applied.

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

That's interesting. It must have gained the overhead warning flash soon after that, but before the yellow patches were applied.

 

No MW symbols either?

 

Mike.

[rodent279]

So if D5578 was painted in French blue, is Humrol no.14 suitable? Because it looks to be a different,  darker shade. In some photos, D5578 looks to be in BR corporate blue.

[Enterprisingwestern]

8 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

So if D5578 was painted in French blue, is Humrol no.14 suitable? Because it looks to be a different,  darker shade. In some photos, D5578 looks to be in BR corporate blue.

 

I think a lot of the issues with the colour are down to the abilities of the film of the day, and presumably D5578's blue faded over time.

 

Mike.

[IWCR]

On 18/07/2023 at 13:26, APOLLO said:

 

What's going on with that signal?, surely interlocking should prevent this.

 

Brit15

Appears  to  have  a  Tail  Light  on  this  end.

Train  probably  moving  away  under  a  correct  signal  with  the  diesel  trailing,  perhaps  Top  &  Tail   working?

 

Pete

[Mike_Walker]

And you'll notice the stop arm has a cross on it denoting it's not in use plus there are no spectacles fitted.  This would become the up section signal for Swithland Sidings which presumably was still being set up at the time.  The distant is for Rothley.

[tom s]

On 19/07/2023 at 16:45, Halvarras said:

 

This is what I was referring to when describing green Class 31s with a lot of grey roof showing - here's 5827 at Bristol Bath Road on 28/7/73 looking surprisingly 'clean' up top considering the date:

This phenomenon might be due to the flat topped rooves on the brush 2s, their curved roof sides are much steeper than most locomotives with a long sweeping arc for a roof. Perhaps dirt clung onto it less easily. The ridged walkway on top is probably inundated with dirt though!

[Michael Hodgson]

On 18/07/2023 at 13:26, APOLLO said:

 

What's going on with that signal?, surely interlocking should prevent this.

 

Brit15

 

Don't know the location, but I think the correct explanation here  is that given above, namely that the top arm is out of use.  Not only the cross on the arm, but also removal of the spectacle glasses indicate that it no longer offically existed.

 

However this combination can happen briefly in practice in some places even with both signals worked .  If the stop arm is mechanically worked it will return to danger under gravity immediately the lever is put back.  If the distant arm is motor worked (being operated from another box further away), putting the stop signal back will break a contact in the supply to the motor, and the arm will drop back relatively slowly, resisted by back EMF from the motor.  So that combination of aspects will be evident but only for about a second or two.  It's not going to confuse a driver, as it happens just after the train has passed, and even somebody watching it will simply say he saw both signals go back on.  The tricky part is taking a photo at exactly the right moment - but I have done it.

 

What strikes me as odd about this photo is the headboard on what I take to be the rear of the train; however if that isn't the rear, the tail lamp is irregular.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Don't know the location, but I think the correct explanation here  is that given above, namely that the top arm is out of use.  Not only the cross on the arm, but also removal of the spectacle glasses indicate that it no longer offically existed.

 

However this combination can happen briefly in practice in some places even with both signals worked .  If the stop arm is mechanically worked it will return to danger under gravity immediately the lever is put back.  If the distant arm is motor worked (being operated from another box further away), putting the stop signal back will break a contact in the supply to the motor, and the arm will drop back relatively slowly, resisted by back EMF from the motor.  So that combination of aspects will be evident but only for about a second or two.  It's not going to confuse a driver, as it happens just after the train has passed, and even somebody watching it will simply say he saw both signals go back on.  The tricky part is taking a photo at exactly the right moment - but I have done it.

 

What strikes me as odd about this photo is the headboard on what I take to be the rear of the train; however if that isn't the rear, the tail lamp is irregular.

Preservation land (the GCR to be more exact and no doubt Swithland Sidings).  The signal I think initially served at an early stage in the scheme  without the stop arm and when it was added presumably full commissioning was some way off so it remained out of use.

 

I'm rreasonably sure  from the train's position in relation to the signal - that the diesel is on the rear of the train

[Michael Hodgson]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Preservation land (the GCR to be more exact and no doubt Swithland Sidings).  The signal I think initially served at an early stage in the scheme  without the stop arm and when it was added presumably full commissioning was some way off so it remained out of use.

 

I'm rreasonably sure  from the train's position in relation to the signal - that the diesel is on the rear of the train

I should have recognised that!

[gobbler]

Read this thread, carefully I think....what is the best rattle can colour for D5578?

 

Humbrol 14

Tamiya TS10

 

Cheers

Chaps

[daveyb]

TS 10 is gloss, and dulls to quite a light shade when oversprayed in matt varnish.  For a comparison, its a good match for the blue Alberta branded CP & CN cylindrical grain hoppers and there are plenty of pics on the web of those.  I have some myself I can dig out if you want to compare.

 

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=9295c298037651d3&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ADLYWIJPj_nomflisIqE9qU5be0vAR6BwQ:1716155660948&q=cylindrical+grain+hoppers+alberta&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=isvmnbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwic97KE2pqGAxUxHDQIHSaCAO8Q0pQJegQIDhAB&biw=1280&bih=713&dpr=2