Proceedings of the Castle Aching Parish Council, 1905

[Nearholmer]

27 minutes ago, Welchester said:

By 'put through it', I meant the fear of failure, and the knowledge that many of your chances in life depended on a fairly arbitrary exam taken at an early age.

I did understand that, although a lot of secondary moderns were very much a mill to be put through too.

[Regularity]

6 hours ago, Welchester said:

 

By 'put through it', I meant the fear of failure, and the knowledge that many of your chances in life depended on a fairly arbitrary exam taken at an early age.

 

I'm sorry if I missed your point @Regularity.

No problem.

I think our (English state-provided) education is a pile of crap: too much interference by governments too concerned with overall performance in league tables, too much of government telling teachers what to teach (national curriculum) rather than paying attention to genuine education.

Grammar schools didn’t suit everyone, not even everyone who went to them, but instead of trying to raise the standards of the secondary moderns, they generally reduced everything to the mediocre.

I know: I went through it.

 

[Regularity]

15 hours ago, Edwardian said:

We are Immensely Privileged to have it.

 

I'm off to have an Immensely Privileged day trying to find a smaller house to rent for the same price as this house so I can avoid the Immense Privilege of paying a three times inflation increase in rent to stay in my home.  Not sure how much more of this Immense Privilege I can stand, but I'll do my Immensely Privileged best.

Be very, very quiet, and listen very, very carefully, and you might, just might, hear it.

 

Yep, the world’s finest violin playing a sad tune especially for you. 
 

You don’t get it, do you? This isn’t about your current personal circumstances, but about where you started in life, and the obstacles you didn’t have to overcome in your early life, nor have to overcome every day. It’s not about what you have, nor about what you started with in life. There’s nothing wrong with any of that.

Except for the fact that we’ll over 99% of the UK, let alone the whole world, started off without it.

Same for most of us here compared to over 90% of the people on the planet.

[Nearholmer]

When a chap has just had bad news, he's entitled to feel miserable and grumpy, and even a bit self-pittying.

 

If you want further and more detailed particulars, have a read about the Kuebler-Ross Grief Cycle.

 

And, try a few platypuses that might help move him on to the next stage.

[monkeysarefun]

4 hours ago, Regularity said:

No problem.

I think our (English state-provided) education is a pile of crap: too much interference by governments too concerned with overall performance in league tables, too much of government telling teachers what to teach (national curriculum) rather than paying attention to genuine education.

Grammar schools didn’t suit everyone, not even everyone who went to them, but instead of trying to raise the standards of the secondary moderns, they generally reduced everything to the mediocre.

I know: I went through it.

 

 

 

The only difference between our high schools here  was if you lived near the beach you could do surfing as a sport.

Edited February 11, 2022 by monkeysarefun

[Nearholmer]

When we were kids, we had some dim awareness of "surf culture", probably from TV, and used to mock it with the phrase "Surf's up at the brickyard!", the brickyard having a large muddy pond that couldn't have raised a surf if it wanted to, and it definitely didn't want to.

[Regularity]

8 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

When a chap has just had bad news, he's entitled to feel miserable and grumpy, and even a bit self-pittying.

Yes. But it’s not “just”, is it?

Feeling miserable is ok, but putting oneself as being the most wretched person in the world when that is so patently not the case isn’t.

[Nearholmer]

But, feeling like you are the most wretched person on the planet, even when no rational assessment would support that, is a perfectly normal response to receiving a parcel of poo, is my point. Further to which, pointing out that no rational assessment would support that feeling simply compounds the problem, rather than solving it, because it is tantamount to telling a person that not only is XYZ bad circumstance affecting the, but that their pals believe them to be irational too.

 

In short: try empathy, rather than rational analysis. At least, that's what my good lady advises me when I do what you're doing.

[monkeysarefun]

47 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

When we were kids, we had some dim awareness of "surf culture", probably from TV, and used to mock it with the phrase "Surf's up at the brickyard!", the brickyard having a large muddy pond that couldn't have raised a surf if it wanted to, and it definitely didn't want to.

Surf culture here is (or at least was when I was growing up)  a pretty toxic brand  of mysoginistic tribalism.

 

Beaches were "for locals only" and girls if allowed entry were there as adornments and fetcher's of stuff from local take aways such as chikko rolls and  hot chips. Pretty accurately portrayed in the 1981 movie "Puberty Blues".

[Edwardian]

Simon would appear to be satisfying a need, indeed repeatedly(!) So let him, I say, after all, that's what I have been doing and the rest of you have been more than patient, kind and understanding, for which I am grateful and which actually does help.  Thanks chaps!

 

I'm sure I'll be back to my normal irritating self in no time.

 

(and enjoying once again my Immense Privilege) 

[Annie]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

If you want further and more detailed particulars, have a read about the Kuebler-Ross Grief Cycle.

Worth looking at.  When I was studying for cleverness certificates when I was working for the adult mental health service I found this to be of the utmost importance since many folk who were referred to the service were in effect grieving for a loss of some kind.  I got asked if a copy of my assignment work on grief could be  kept on file at the cleverness certificate teaching place's library which was very nice; - not that any of that matters much anymore.  Don't discount grief as being something that can be 'snapped out of' or 'stiff upper lipped' or cured by stuffing people's faces full of pills.  It's a natural human process and it has to run its course.

[Nearholmer]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

or cured by stuffing people's faces full of pills

Forget pills. Doughnuts are a far more effective palliative.

[alastairq]

10 hours ago, Regularity said:

No problem.

I think our (English state-provided) education is a pile of crap: too much interference by governments too concerned with overall performance in league tables, too much of government telling teachers what to teach (national curriculum) rather than paying attention to genuine education.

Grammar schools didn’t suit everyone, not even everyone who went to them, but instead of trying to raise the standards of the secondary moderns, they generally reduced everything to the mediocre.

I know: I went through it.

 

 

I'm no expert in specifics, but I do wonder, as a casual observer, whether the above really amounts to a ''chicken or egg'' thing?

In other words, did the polly-tishuns respond to a perceived public demand [especially for league tables, results, scores, etc]?

Or did they create the whole thing for us to devour?

 

I know, personally, far too many teachers, of all levels, who no longer teach within the industry, simply because they have become fed up with the whole educational environment.

 

I had a grammar school education [two, in fact]....

I must admit to finding it somewhat of a hindrance in life.

 

I'm sure I learnt a lot...bit equally, I think I've discarded an awful lot more.

 

The education system in my eyes, was fine to see one off on the first couple of years of working [rather than 'adult] life.

But from there on in, actually had little effect.

 

From a personal viewpoint.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

I'm no expert in specifics, but I do wonder, as a casual observer, whether the above really amounts to a ''chicken or egg'' thing?

In other words, did the polly-tishuns respond to a perceived public demand [especially for league tables, results, scores, etc]?

Or did they create the whole thing for us to devour?

 

I know, personally, far too many teachers, of all levels, who no longer teach within the industry, simply because they have become fed up with the whole educational environment.

 

Ever since the miners brought down Ted Heath, Conservative governments have sought to break up large, strongly-unionised industries so that no one dispute can bring the country and government to its knees - energy, railways, etc. They've not quite got there with the Health Service and education. The teaching profession is full of well-educated lefties devoted to the ideal of public service, so it's no wonder government policy is directed towards their demoralisation.  

[Regularity]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

But, feeling like you are the most wretched person on the planet, even when no rational assessment would support that, is a perfectly normal response to receiving a parcel of poo, is my point. Further to which, pointing out that no rational assessment would support that feeling simply compounds the problem, rather than solving it, because it is tantamount to telling a person that not only is XYZ bad circumstance affecting the, but that their pals believe them to be irational too.

 

In short: try empathy, rather than rational analysis. At least, that's what my good lady advises me when I do what you're doing.

But I have repeatedly stated my support, sympathy and empathy for James’s personal situation. Two years ago I had the very real pleasure of his company for most of the Saturday as an operator on Lydham Heath, and I genuinely like the guy.

 

You are confusing something general, about “privilege”, with something specific, about his personal circumstances. I have been very, very concerned to distinguish between the two. I just wish James, and most of the people on here, would also put some space between the two.

 

The issue of “privilege” as it has been poorly labelled is about the circumstances of one’s birth, which determine a number of factors which present varying hurdles and obstacles to one’s progression in life, in addition to those which events, choices, and pure luck may throw up along the way. Believe me, in the past 4 years I have experienced rather a large number of unfortunate outcomes of those last 3, which has at times affected my physical health (a little bit), my mental health (a lot, lot more, and I am still working through that) my personal circumstances (separation and divorce), my wealth (several months without any income) and even where I lived (19 months were spent living at my parents). But during this period I have taken time to not just pontificate about things like “Black Lives Matter”, LGBTQ+, neurodiversity, etc, on a model railway forum, but to learn about them an engage with friends who fall into these rather broad and poorly defined groups, and come to understand what the issues are, and what I can do about them, as an individual. Part of this made me appreciate just how lucky I have been, and indeed how lucky all of us are who are in a position to have access to this forum, to engage in this hobby (no matter how passively) and to have even just a few minutes to spend reading the posts let alone making them ourselves.

 

Compared to most of the world, this liberty to express ourselves over something so monumentally trivial in the big scheme of events, but so rewarding to us individually, as model railways, is indeed a Great Thing and and an indication of advantage in the lottery of life. That does not mean that it should be taken away from us, but the question then becomes, what can we do to ensure that more people can enjoy these simple freedoms and pleasures?

 

That is what “privilege” means in this context, and most of the rest of the world sees this happening mostly in countries with predominantly white populations, who have historically gone around the globe creating empires based sometimes of trade, but mostly on forms of control, be that by controlling/manipulating trade conditions, military conquest, imposition of a ruling elite, slavery, or just brutal exploitation. That’s why to most of the world, it is seen as “white privilege”. Even now, these same nations either directly or indirectly (by using other countries because labour forces are cheaper) control most of the production, and hence most of the energy consumption and thereby pollution, to a level which is unsustainable in the long term. 
 

There are three things everyone who is in a position can do:

1. Think about who they vote for, and how to lobby for change within the system;

2. Cut down on meat consumption - it does not have to be eliminated, but reducing it is a good change to make (with some personal health benefits, too) - and cut down on flying, the biggest personal polluter;

3. If you see any form of phobic behaviour, then call it out. I asked a black friend what I could do personally to support BLM, and that’s what he told me to do. That and “Don’t vote for racists, but I already know you don’t do that.”

 

On all these points, we can engage within even this forum: just talking about the issues rationally raises the idea that lots of little changes can nudge things in a certain direction. There has been quite a lot of self-proclamation about being liberal and supporting these issues, but the key test is, do we walk the talk? On which…

On the third point, if you see it, call it out. We all had a chance to do that 3 months ago. I was deafened by the silence of the support when I actually did it, but the remarks (nor the person) haven’t appeared since. Everyone has the “right” to say what they believe, but that comes with a responsibility to respect social norms and societal norms - some of which are so important that they are enshrined in law and also the fact that others have the same “right” to express contrary views and even say, “Sorry, but those remarks aren’t welcome here, and if you persist in making them, neither are you.”

 

In short, being given a “parcel” of poo at least means it has been wrapped up neatly. Many, many people simply get showered with runny forms of it from the moment they are born until their last breath - which happens far too soon. We shouldn’t forget that.

[uax6]

Being the husband of a teacher, I am astounded by the demands placed on our teaching staff. She works in a rural deprived area in a primary school. She has to teach two year groups in the same class (not an easy thing to do anyway) but also has to differentiate each of the lessons for the children with special educational needs that she has in the class. Being a deprived area she has around 5 or 6 of these in her class, and recently another was diagnosed. 

The extra effort that was implied that she should do was at best difficult, at worst impossible. In effect this child would need its own teacher and classroom to fulfill the stated requirements, which of course is impossible to do. It was obviously written by someone who had no idea how a school worked, and how that it would also damage the child (in view of the 'pandering to its wishes of not doing anything it didn't want to') in the long term.  It reduced my wife to tears of frustration.

It is no wonder that one of her collogues has resigned and moved to doing something completely different. This also showed the fact that no-one wants to teach in these sort of schools, as they had one applicate for the job vacancy....

Its about time that things like schools and the NHS are stopped being political footballs...

 

Andy G

[Regularity]

27 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Ever since the miners brought down Ted Heath, Conservative governments have sought to break up large, strongly-unionised industries so that no one dispute can bring the country and government to its knees - energy, railways, etc. They've not quite got there with the Health Service and education. The teaching profession is full of well-educated lefties devoted to the ideal of public service, so it's no wonder government policy is directed towards their demoralisation.

Ah, first the miners, and then the minors, eh?

 

That’s true. Thatcherism gained its support firstly amongst those who were opposed to unions being perceived as large left-wing institutions aiming to bring down elected governments and indeed the whole system, rather than acting to present their members interests in the workplace. The miners was the classic example, but the TUC famously “parking their tanks on the lawn at Downing Street” and the “Winter of Discontent” in 78/79 when unions rebelled against a Labour government trying to control inflation with restraints on wage increases, demanding “free collective bargaining” (very capitalist!) added fuel to the fire. Good on Jim Callaghan for standing up to them, but it meant the Tories won in 79.

 

Key to the Tory plan was the wonderful news (to them) that Arthur “I believe in democracy yet won’t ballot my members” Scargill became the leader of the National Union of Mineworkers. They stockpiled reserves of coal at power stations over a couple of years to build up two years’ worth, and then went into action. Scargill saw a “confidential” list of proposed pit closures, which was of course denied. The government had him over a barrel: he either called a strike on this basis, which they would and did vehemently deny, or he could do nothing, for them to later reveal that he had known all along. He then relied on the NUM rule book being interpreted to allow each region to call out its members without a ballot, to get a nationwide strike. In Nottinghamshire, they were prepared to strike but only if there was a national ballot, which split the workforce (further weakening Scargill) and Neil Kinnock made the politically fatal mistake of supporting the NUM without insisting on a national ballot, polarising his own support and a large chunk of floating voters.

 

As for schools, a friend and well-known modeller who was a teacher at the time told me that at worst parents were indifferent to comprehensive education, but most were to some degree against it. Many Labour politicians had benefitted from the opportunities a grammar school education had given them. The only people really in favour of comprehensive education were teachers at secondary modern schools, who felt they were being treated by society as “second class” teachers.

 

[Ian Simpson]

While I'd never suggest anyone in this parish enjoys Immense Privilege (apart from the opportunity to read my own musings, of course), I do think we should all remember those worse off than ourselves.

And in particular Jacob Rees-Mogg, who has just been made something called a "Brexit Opportunities Minister". 

[Nearholmer]

53 minutes ago, Regularity said:

12 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

But I have repeatedly stated my support, sympathy and empathy for James’s personal situation

Alright, I’ll back off. Sorry.

 

Kevin

[Regularity]

6 minutes ago, Ian Simpson said:

And in particular Jacob Rees-Mogg, who has just been made something called a "Brexit Opportunities Minister". 

I view this as his opportunity to something really bad, and make it even worse. 
Because he has invested in various funds which require that to happen, so that he can become even richer.

 

If this was going on in, say, an African nation, he would be among the first to call it corrupt and a banana republic.

[Nearholmer]

29 minutes ago, Regularity said:

The only people really in favour of comprehensive education were teachers at secondary modern schools, who felt they were being treated by society as “second class” teachers.

Im not sure that can be true in whole.

 

Ive mentioned before East Sussex, where I grew-up, which went fell belt for comprehensive at the earliest opportunity, despite being A Very Tory Shire. 
 

My reading is that, in the mid-60s, parents were dissatisfied with secondary modern schools, and the obviously too many cases of bright kids losing-out at the flip of a coin almost when it came to 11+. 
 

It’s hard to be sure at this remove in time, of course, because newspapers are never an honest guide, and the memories of now-quite-old parents are clouded by what’s happened since, especially what’s happened since in their own children’s lives.

[Regularity]

51 minutes ago, uax6 said:

I am astounded by the demands placed on our teaching staff.

I did teacher training in the late 80s. I love kids, and I love educating, but even then, the writing was on the wall and I could foresee a complete lack of enjoyment coming to the profession, so I didn’t become a teacher. 
My ex-wife is a medic in the NHS. I am so glad that I never took an interest in biology at school.

 

53 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Its about time that things like schools and the NHS are stopped being political footballs...

 

Agree. They should never have been, but we have never had the conversation in this country about what services we want to provide, at what level, and how we are going to pay for them.

[Regularity]

2 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Im not sure that can be true in whole.

As it’s a generalisation, then it probably isn’t.

 

I sometimes think it was, like many things, driven by the desire of politicians to interfere/control our lives more, to protect us from ourselves, or some similar patronising nonsense. The “nanny state”, so sneered at by populist right wing politicians, is not the sole preserve of “the left” - enforcing “free market economics” on the NHS was as much this sort of “we know best” ideology as anything else.

[Regularity]

Enough from me, for now, unless directly challenged on these issues. 

Anyone know of any decently rented properties to support James and his hobby?

[alastairq]

2 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Anyone know of any decently rented properties to support James and his hobby?

Much depends on where James wants to live? 

Or, where he needs to live?