Proceedings of the Castle Aching Parish Council, 1905

[Compound2632]

10 hours ago, CKPR said:

[MG = ...  - original garage and showroom in Oxford in the 1920s].

 

College accommodation in my day - probably still - but with a well-done window display.

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

For severe ischaemic pain, press Button B.

 

And get your money back too...

[Edwardian]

Thought for the Day: The Optimism Effect.

 

To an extent, I begin to suspect that optimism, via enhanced motivation, does become a self-justifying prophecy. 

 

Currently we have a PM whose popularity is based on his optimism, and it was frankly admitted at the time he became his party's leader that this was the reason he got the job, despite the man's only genuine similarity with Churchill; his own party's profound distrust of him.  Some of us, however, feel that we saw behind this Wizard of Oz's curtain years ago.  Enough other people are content to vape on the optimism drug, however. So the world turns.

 

However, the ubiquitous football coverage, which even dominates Radio 4 these days, has led my to reassess optimism. Rather than dismiss it as merely a delusion cynically manipulated by populist politicians, this football tournament suggests to me that it has a tangible power for good.

 

Now, I have a prediction for Sunday ....

 

 

.... but, despite my total lack of interest in football, I do want to be proved wrong. The Nation (England), well, most of it, has enjoyed a significant lifting of spirits, a collective pride and a rare but significant surge in optimism due to the performance of the national team to date.  These are things that we need after the 18 months we've had.

 

I recognise that, by the natural illogic of such things, one of the beneficiaries of an improvement in national self-belief will be that very same incompetent buffoon and peddler of false optimism I mentioned earlier.

 

Even so, a victory would mean so much to so many people after the time we've had. Further, that national self-belief seems to me to be just what we need if we are to struggle with any degree of success against the effects of Covid and of our decision to commit economic suicide on behalf of the Union. So, while I won't be watching, I do hope this team has its efforts rewarded with success and that the hopes of most of the English population don't come crashing down like an Ulsterman's bonfire.

   

[Hroth]

No one could be more surprised than I that the English Foot-The-Ball team have got so far.  Naturally I wish them well, and would like to hear that they have won on Monday morning (no, I won't be watching either), though it won't shock me to bear that they lost on penalties again.

[Ramblin Rich]

I agree a win would lift the spirits of a proportion of the population somewhat, but I do worry that a win would cause a similar amount of nationalistic jingoism which would make those who enjoy being exceptionally English* here or abroad, absolutely insufferable. Which can only further harm our sadly diminished international reputation. And lower my spirits even more...

 

* which seems to involve excessive drinking, loud sweary shouting/singing & fighting

[Hroth]

19 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said:

And lower my spirits even more...

 

Provided that they're not the bottled variety...

 

[alastairq]

Personally, I find myself in completely the opposite situation, regarding 'optimism'.....

 

Over the past 18 months I have found myself increasingly optimistic ....at long last I no longer have to fend off the opinion of society about how I lead my life.  Especially the 'presumption' aspect.

 

Now I find myself fighting pessimism, that the rest of society is rushing headlong back into the pit I saw it in before the pandemic.

So I have zero positive feeling regarding GB's progress [or rather, a part of GB?} in so-called 'sport'....

To be clear, I have no ill will towards those individuals  who are directly participating in the sports...Rather towards all the hangers-on that accompany said sports.

 

I don't see it as ''optimism.''

 

More like, ''opportunism!''

[wagonman]

At a time when it has become almost an embarrassment to be English I rather hope the Italians win – if only to stop the English banging on about their victory for the next 55 years. Other than that, I really don't give a damn.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, wagonman said:

At a time when it has become almost an embarrassment to be English I rather hope the Italians win – if only to stop the English banging on about their victory for the next 55 years. Other than that, I really don't give a damn.

 

Given Gareth Southgate's statement about the values of his team - making it hard for the more reactionary types to piggy-back on the team's success - I rather hope they do win. If you're looking for a statement of "British values" it seems to me a good starting point.

[wagonman]

5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Given Gareth Southgate's statement about the values of his team - making it hard for the more reactionary types to piggy-back on the team's success - I rather hope they do win. If you're looking for a statement of "British values" it seems to me a good starting point.

 

True, the team are vastly superior to most of their followers, including (especially) the greased piglet in No.10.

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, wagonman said:

True, the team are vastly superior to most of their followers, including (especially) the greased piglet in No.10.

 

I doubt he's a genuine fan - just jumping on the bandwagon. But then I'm a sceptic about politicians' stated likes and enthusiasms. I don't believe Tony Blair ever read Scott's Ivanhoe, at least not all the way to the end. I gave up half-way through!

[Edwardian]

40 minutes ago, wagonman said:

At a time when it has become almost an embarrassment to be English I rather hope the Italians win – if only to stop the English banging on about their victory for the next 55 years. Other than that, I really don't give a damn.

 

More respectable English patriotism has traditionally been expressed via Union Flag waving (see the 1969-vintage photograph posted above), leaving the cross of St George for too long in the possession of the skinhead end of the 'patriotic' spectrum.

 

However, a young, diverse, team that chooses to 'take the knee' may represent something of a break with that tradition. Too young remember 1966 and share the obsession of the older generation with beating Germany on the pitch, with its unspoken WW2 sub-text, we may have a team that embodies values to be proud of.

 

Which brings us to .....

 

27 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Given Gareth Southgate's statement about the values of his team - making it hard for the more reactionary types to piggy-back on the team's success - I rather hope they do win. If you're looking for a statement of "British values" it seems to me a good starting point.

 

An interesting comment just now on R4 along the lines of that being a better definition of values for England than any contemporary politician has manged. 

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Ramblin Rich said:

which seems to involve excessive drinking, loud sweary shouting/singing & fighting

The English have had a reputation, and a track-record that is auditable through things like parish records, for that kind of behaviour for centuries - it’s as much part of our national character as all the bits of our character that we like to celebrate. And, in the days when farming methods meant large populations in rural areas, it wasn’t an exclusively urban thing.

 

Not good, but true. It might even be the case that we’ve got less like that over the long run, rather than more.

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The English have had a reputation, and a track-record that is auditable through things like parish records, for that kind of behaviour for centuries - it’s as much part of our national character as all the bits of our character that we like to celebrate. And, in the days when farming methods meant large populations in rural areas, it wasn’t an exclusively urban thing.

 

Not good, but true. It might even be the case that we’ve got less like that over the long run, rather than more.

 

2 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

 

* which seems to involve excessive drinking, loud sweary shouting/singing & fighting

 

Yes, in the early modern period, the English seemed to have enjoyed a reputation as Europe's drunks!

 

2 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

... lower my spirits even more...

 

 

Which I avoid by not keeping them on a high shelf.

[CKPR]

I have dim memories of an editorial in The Gruaniad many years ago espousing the virtues of railway modelling in the face of a lumpen disdain for  anything  regarded as 'boring!' ["everything that doesn't involve boozing, shouting and football"]. 

[wagonman]

Don't give the natives any firewater...

 

[wagonman]

10 minutes ago, CKPR said:

I have dim memories of an editorial in The Gruaniad many years ago espousing the virtues of railway modelling in the face of a lumpen disdain for  anything  regarded as 'boring!' ["everything that doesn't involve boozing, shouting and football"]. 

 

That sounds a bit outré even for the Grauniad...

[Nearholmer]

I confess to actually enjoying watching the odd football match.
 

Not necessarily all of the ones my son plays in (the ones with sleet, mud, and howling gales, in mid winter, can be a bit testing), but most, and we used to go to watch our ‘local heroes’ (what would have been third division in’t old days) several times each season. The atmosphere in the stadium can be great fun, and a bit of mild tribalism isn’t a bad way of letting off steam.

 

These days it’s only really a very tiny minority of club fans who are dangerous crazy heads (the 1970s it isn’t), and the real looniness seems to be reserved for national games. I’m not saying that all footy fans are mild-mannered bookish chaps, who go through an “After you Claude” routine at the turnstiles, but I do think it’s possible to be too precious, and frankly too snobbish, about the whole thing.

[Regularity]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The English have had a reputation, and a track-record that is auditable through things like parish records, for that kind of behaviour for centuries - it’s as much part of our national character as all the bits of our character that we like to celebrate. And, in the days when farming methods meant large populations in rural areas, it wasn’t an exclusively urban thing.

If you go back a few centuries, living in these lands meant spending roughly 6 weeks of the year after the winter solstice with not much to do: the weather was poor, the nights long, and the ground frozen.

In such circumstances, there wasn’t much else to do other than light a big fire, roast some meat, boil water to make beer, and get drunk. Binge drinking quite possibly became ingrained into our culture, and hasn’t gone away since!

 

But there are many good things to celebrate about being English: Shakespeare, heavy metal, pork scratchings. And that’s just the West Midlands…

[CKPR]

West Midlands or, more specifically, Nullford-on-Null (home town of the legendary Derek Smalls). 

[monkeysarefun]

The Italians have had just as bad if not worse time out of all this and are assumedly clinging on to hope just as optimistically. There's going to be crushing disappointment for someone or other.

 

Coming from a country where soccer is played by sheilas and young kiddies too delicate for rugby league or Australian rules, I predict the usual penalty shootout to  end a couple of hours of boring.

Edited July 10, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[CKPR]

On 10/07/2021 at 12:22, Nearholmer said:

The English have had a reputation, and a track-record that is auditable through things like parish records, for that kind of behaviour for centuries - not good, but true. It might even be the case that we’ve got less like that over the long run, rather than more.

I have a sense that the greased piglet's behaviour is basically a throwback to the libertine (i.e. 14 year old boy) behaviour of the entitled upper class rakes of  pre-Victorian times. There was an excellent Ian Hislop series on the Victorian "do-gooders" in which he showed how they laid the basis for a more rational, moral and middle-class society, shaming and marginalising the feckless and reckless aristos in the process. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by CKPR

[webbcompound]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The English have had a reputation, and a track-record that is auditable through things like parish records, for that kind of behaviour for centuries - it’s as much part of our national character as all the bits of our character that we like to celebrate.

 

As far back as the middle ages, when being irreligious could get you in serious trouble, the English soldiery were known by the French as "Les Goddams" after their most frequent turn of phrase.

[Regularity]

28 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Coming from a country where soccer is played by sheilas and young kiddies too delicate for rugby league or Australian rules,

I always though that Australians had a rather, shall we say, “robust” approach to diversity. 
Given a preference for rugby league, is some of it a case of protesting too much?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/07/huddersfield-kenny-edwards-10-match-ban-for-inserting-finger-into-opponent-rugby-league

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The English have had a reputation, and a track-record that is auditable through things like parish records, for that kind of behaviour for centuries - it’s as much part of our national character as all the bits of our character that we like to celebrate. And, in the days when farming methods meant large populations in rural areas, it wasn’t an exclusively urban thing.

 

Nor by any means confined to the lower orders, as the the youthful behaviour of some recent and current senior conservative politicians gives witness.

 

22 minutes ago, CKPR said:

I have a sense that the greased piglet's behaviour is basically a throwback to the libertine behaviour of the entitled upper class rakes of  pre-Victorian times. There was an excellent Ian Hislop series on Victorian do-gooders in which he showed how they laid the basis for a more rational, moral and middle-class society, shaming and marginalising the feckless and reckless aristos in the process. 

 

We are in some respects in a similarly censorious age, which is having a similarly civilising effect, but there are elements that are pushing back hard.